Ever heard of imposter syndrome? In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward interview Samantha Huddleston Baker, a partner at OVB Law and Consulting S.C. in Milwaukee. They discuss impostor syndrome and carving out paths in the early years of a legal career.

Samantha shares her background and journey to law school, as well as her experience joining the law firm and overcoming impostor syndrome. She also talks about finding her path in business and real estate law. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the dynamic between partners and associates. In this episode, the hosts discuss the challenges faced by young attorneys in the early years of their careers. They advise navigating these challenges, including how to effectively use support staff, deal with imposter syndrome, cultivate trust with clients, and handle difficult feedback. They emphasize the importance of confidence, communication, and continuous learning in building a successful legal career.

Takeaways

• Impostor syndrome is common among young lawyers and can make them feel inadequate or like they are pretending to be something they're not.
• Overcoming impostor syndrome requires preparation, hard work, and a willingness to ask for help and seek guidance from more experienced attorneys.
• Finding a path in a specific area of law often comes through experience and working with clients who give opportunities to learn and grow.
• The dynamic between partners and associates can sometimes create a fear of bothering the partner with questions, but it's important for associates to ask for help and not spend unnecessary time on tasks that could be resolved quickly with guidance. Do initial work to understand the subject matter before asking questions.
• Be persistent and confident in asking for help.
• Don't be afraid to challenge more experienced attorneys respectfully.
• Build a network of mentors and peers for support and guidance.
• Avoid comparing yourself to others and focus on your own progress

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:24 Impostor Syndrome and Carving Out Paths in Early Years of a Legal Career

08:10 Background and Journey to Law School

13:17 Joining the Law Firm and Overcoming Impostor Syndrome

23:37 Dealing with Impostor Syndrome and Fear

30:09 Defining Impostor Syndrome and Overcoming It

33:32 Dynamic Between Partners and Associates

34:58 Navigating the Early Years as a Young Attorney

46:08 Challenges Faced as a New Attorney

55:55 Using Support Staff Effectively

58:08 Dealing with Imposter Syndrome

01:00:05 Cultivating Trust with Clients

01:02:37 Comparing Career Progress with Peers

01:05:52 Handling Difficult Feedback

Simply defined, human trafficking is the exploitation of human beings for someone else's gain, according to Erika Petty, executive director at Milwaukee-based Lotus Legal Clinic, a nonprofit that provides free legal services exclusively to victims of human trafficking. 

As you'll discover in Episode 16 of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, while human trafficking can be simply defined, the complexity of the issue spans the nation and the globe, and hits home right here in Wisconsin. 

To close out January, which is National Human Trafficking Prevention Month, Bottom Up co-host Kristen Hardy sat down with Petty to discuss the complexities of the human trafficking problem.

Along the way, we hear about the different ways in which human traffickers identify vulnerable people or populations and use that to exploit them for financial and other gain.

We hear how victims are forced and coerced to commit crimes and give up all autonomy, making it difficult or impossible to escape, as the victim often depends on their traffickers for survival. We hear how victims are lured with promises into isolated situations, and forced into unpaid labor.

"Trafficking is definitely a hidden crime and there can be red flags, but those red flags are only going to be visible if the victim is engaging in society in a way in which people are looking out for that person," said Petty, noting that traffickers know how to keep victims isolated. 

But Petty also provides hope, and pathways for lawyers and others to help, through the donation of time or resources. Her work and the work of Lotus Legal Clinic involves the enforcement of crime victims' rights, criminal record relief, civil legal services involving housing, credit repair, workplace protections, and other issues. The clinic also helps victims on a pathway to healing. 

In 1963, Frank Gimbel was just three years out of law school when he became an assistant U.S. attorney, serving five years before switching to defense counsel. Gimbel's career as a trial lawyer, spanning six decades, has been chronicled extensively, with many awards to his name.

But the early days were no walk in the park. Gimbel worked as a tax return preparer, a clothes salesman, and held other side jobs to keep food on the table. These experiences required hustle and humility as Gimbel seasoned himself into one of Wisconsin's most recognized trial lawyers.

In this episode of Bottom Up, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy dig deeper into Gimbel's career, which includes a successful prosecution of former Milwaukee organized crime boss Frank Balistrieri and other high-profile cases as a litigator in private practice.

Gimbel, former president of the State Bar of Wisconsin (1986-87) and founder of what is now Gimbel, Reilly, Guerin & Brown LLP, unveils many qualities and strategies that led to his trial successes. He also discusses how politics and hustle helped forge his path, the conflicts he encountered, the value of respect, and how getting involved can help lawyers build a practice. 

"You generate business by being in the community," Gimbel says. "While the numbers change, the formula for surviving as a lawyer after law school is not different."

As younger lawyers enter the profession, how do they collaborate and communicate effectively with older generations, who may collaborate differently? What are the current trends, challenges, and opportunities for solo and small firms in the practice management and technology space? 

These are some of the questions that co-host Emil Ovbiagele and Joe Forward (guest host) explore with guests Erin Ogden and Brent Hoeft. This is the second episode in a two-parter focused on solo and small firms, recorded from the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference.

Erin Ogden – a partner and co-founder of Ogden Glazer+Schaefer in Madison – dives into smaller firm practice management issues (first 23:19). The pandemic, she says, caused a seismic shift in how law firms operate. In addition, younger generations are entering the profession with a whole new perspective on effective communication through the use of technology. 

“The way I manage is not going to be the same as someone who was [born in the 2000s],” Ogden says. “Not in a bad way. Diversification is key. They are coming up with new ideas and new ways of looking at things. In addition, we do a lot of work with [younger clients]. How do I talk to them?"  She noted that email may not be a primary form of communication for younger generations. 

In the second segment (starting at 23:20), Brent Hoeft discusses the challenges and opportunities that rapidly evolving technology brings to solo and small firm practice. Hoeft, who started a virtual law practice as a solo practitioner over a decade ago, is the new practice management advisor for the State Bar’s Law Office Management Assistance Program (also known as Practice 411™). 

Hoeft highlights common technology issues, how different generations approach privacy and security (and what that means for law firms), the opportunities to save significant time and money using evolving technology, and how Practice 411 can help as a member benefit. 

In this episode, recorded at the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference (WSSFC), co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward speak with Jessica Kramer, a small firm owner based in Madison, and Aiden Tharp, a solo practitioner in Hudson. 

Kramer was a co-chair of the conference's substantive law track, and Tharp was a co-chair of the work-life balance/ethics track. The conference theme? Working across different generations of clients, lawyers, and judges. The guests discuss this theme and how they approach it in their own practices. They also discuss the challenges and opportunities for solo and small firms. 

For Emil Ovbiagele, this year's winner the of John Lederer Distinguished Service Award, presented at the WSSFC, "solo and small firms are the backbones of our profession and the State Bar."

In Episode 13 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy talk with Karina O’Brien, an attorney at Kostner, Koslo & Brovold LLC in Arcadia, Wisconsin. The topic? Rural practice in Wisconsin. The challenges. The opportunities. The shortage of attorneys in rural Wisconsin.

A 2014 U.W. Law School graduate, Karina grew up in Arcadia, located 45 miles south of Eau Claire. She didn’t think she would return to her hometown to live and work, but a local law firm offered her a job out of law school, and her father championed the opportunity as a good start. "Give it a try," Karina recalls him saying. "You can always move on."

Now, almost a decade later, there’s no place Karina would rather be (except maybe skiing). With a sharp wit and good humor, Karina highlights a day in the life of her rural practice, including the sense of community that comes with it. Karina said Arcadia, like many smaller towns in Wisconsin, is a place where the community is rooting for you to succeed, and the support of other attorneys in the TriCounty Bar Association is unmatched.

Amid shortages of attorneys in rural areas – with many older rural attorneys retiring and few to replace them – Kristen, Emil, and Karina explore what can be done to attract attorneys to rural parts of the state. Opportunities abound, and potential solutions emerge, but where do we go from here? 

Milwaukee-based attorney Christa Wittenberg, a 2012 graduate of the University of Michigan Law School, never thought she would ever work for a law firm. But plans change.

Now after 9 years with O’Neil, Cannon, Hollman, Dejong & Laing S.C., Wittenberg was recently elected to serve on the firm’s 3-person Board of Directors. In the firm’s 50-year history, she is the first woman to serve in that role. In addition to her commercial litigation practice, Wittenberg will help the firm – which has approximately 40 attorneys – navigate its most important decisions. 

In this episode, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy chat with Wittenberg about how she got there. She provides a look at law firm structure and governance, and how to navigate new opportunities with confidence. 

A wife, mother, and self-described “yes person,” she also talks about her nonprofit work with Lotus Legal Clinic and how that fits in with her desire to help make the world a better place. And of course, a major theme for all episodes, the trio explores wellness and work-life balance.

Fresh off a one-year term as president of the State Bar of Wisconsin, family and elder law attorney Margaret Hickey, of Milwaukee, discusses the importance of leadership, including service to a State Bar membership of more than 25,000 attorneys.

Co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy engage Hickey - the fourth consecutive woman to serve as president - in discussions about the role of State Bar leaders, including the State Bar's Board of Governors, and how leaders tackle issues important to the legal profession. 

Hickey also talks about some of the major (and difficult) issues State Bar leaders tackled this past year, and what the future holds. A 37-year veteran of the legal profession, Hickey uses her own experiences to provide insights for young lawyers navigating their careers.