
Kansas Evolution Hearings
Day 1 (5/5/05)
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About this listen
Also, listen to great related books, magazines, and lectures available right now from audible.com®:
Darwin on Trial
The Great Tennessee Monkey Trial
Scientific American Special Edition: Evolution
What's The Matter With Kansas?: A Lecture
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Very interesting!
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The lawyer defending the side of evolution does not dispute one single fact... he simply degrades and belittles the witnesses. If anything, regardless of your opinion, there is an amazing wealth of rational inquiry and scientific testimony.
There may be debate over the origin of man, but after listening to these testimonies, there in no debate over the faltering, weak and withering theory of Darwin's evolution.
Amazing, enlightening & full of rational inquiry
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Their quoted books and studies(non peer-reviewed) continually use unscientific concepts that simply sound scientific to a school board with a poor understanding of the associations ID exploits. For example ID relies heavily on measuring intelligence and information in a system, but information theory provides no scientific way to objectivly measure the amount of information or "inteligence" in a system (see Mismeasure of Man). Back to a kansas classroom example, let's say a child scribbles a note and passes it in class but the teacher intercepts it. The teacher finds a seemingly funny set of symbols on the paper that apear to be a pictogram making fun of the teacher, the teacher ,knowing her ID quite well, realizes that she can determine the information in the note and determines it's a note making fun of him/her. Of course the reality is that the student was merely tracing funny shapes found in their text book at random and there was no information relating to the teacher at all no matter how much it may have looked like it. But this is an ID school and that student is in big trouble.
So sure this might be worth a listen but be ready for some serious thinking becasue the pleasant-sounding lies abound.
Poor Kansas students, how can we help them?
Think about the children
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They do not answer because they cannot, they do not answer because to them, there is no debate and that these trails cost the tax payers considerable money. It is annoying that they simply do not offer resonable evidence as to why evolution is true and quell the argument that way; They simply refuse to be involved.
Some may think that this is admitting that evolution is not fact, therefore creationism should be taught in schools as well, but it is not.
I can understand why evolutionist do not validate the ID perspective, but I understand how evolution works. I know about Lenski's work with bacteria that it shows two random mutations that are a benifit to a organism, therefore, evolution. (Look up Lenski''s work for the details if you are interested, or Read Richard Dawkin's book "The Greatest Show on Earth" for details)
So, If you are looking for a well laid out debate, this is not it. Not by a long shot. The information that is offered on the creationist side is false, (for some of it) and the Evolution camp simply does not respond.
A complete waste of time
It is a long and winding road to nowhere
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All Nonsense
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Here are credible, highly qualified scientists who clearly indicate that:
1) There is signficant contraversy regarding Darwinian/Macro evolution
2) There exist singificant misrepresentations about the evidence supporting Darwinian/Macro evolution.
- Jonathan Wells and John Sanford are especially significant in their expert testimony.
- The more we learn about DNA and genetics, the less likely Darwinian/Macro evolution looks
- The distinction between Micro and Macro evolution is extremely important in understanding this issue
3) There is clear discrimination against those scientists and teachers who express their disagreement with teaching Darwinian/macro evolution as a foregone conclusion.
It is seriously worth listening too.
EXCELLENT - WORTH A LISTEN
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The hearings were overseen by Connie ("I feel bad for them when they face God on Judgment Day") Morris, Kathy ("It is a serious offense to mock God") Martin, and Steve (I can't find a decent quote for this guy, but I'll keep looking) Abrams.
John ("Just because I don't hold a Kansas bar license does not mean that I can't come into Kansas and practice law") Calvert led the fight for Intelligent Design, and the unpronounceable Pedro Irigonegaray acted as the lone voice of reason in this kangaroo court.
Most spent their time trying to discredit the Theory of Evolution (which was consistently referred to as Neo-Satanism--no waitasec--Neo-Darwinism) and its supporters. For instance, we don't have a fossil record for pre-Cambrian complex life. Oh no! The entire Theory of Evolution is thrown into doubt! And what the heck was up with the squirrel thing? Two groups of squirrels on opposite side of a canyon may or may not be different species. Well, the question was asked, why didn't the scientists just try breeding them to find out? BAM! Evolutionists, and by extension, Evolutionary Theory have been discredited. (if they had bothered asking, a scientist might have told them that different species can be capable of breeding, but separated into different reproductive groups by different mating seasons, or geography; like, I dunno, a big canyon!)
What this hearing comes down to is an example of human ideology superseding evidence based research. It's worth noting that with all of their praising of empirical science, not one shred of real evidence was presented for Intelligent Design during the four days of hearings. Not very intelligent in my opinion.
Listen Just for the Fun of It
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An interesting place to see all this in microcosm are these Kansas hearings on what students should be taught about science in general & about evolution in particular. To hear the "other side," since the real scientists have (quite correctly) decided to boycott the event (statements from members of the board itself make clear how biased the event is in the first place). You have pseudo-scientists who are all, without exception, born-again christians, proclaiming that their own faith ought to be taught in kansas elementary & secondary schools. You have scientists proclaiming the same, of course, scientists from disciplines completely outside the relevant areas & in some cases scientists with embarassingly dubious degrees in the first place. But their views make for very interesting listening, as do the self-serving comments made by the board members themselves. This is worth a listen. It is very stimulating even if it brings the blood to a boil on occasion. I am not sure I will be able to retain my interest to Days 2 & 3, which have just been posted, but certainly Day 1 is worth listening to.
an outstanding
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A must listen . . .
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I guess I'm ranting much more than I should, but take a listen and decide for yourself.
Interesting, and somewhat scarey
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