What makes a therapy group more than just a room full of people? In this episode, group psychotherapist J. Scott Rutan, Ph.D. joins Kurt to explore the transformative power of group therapy. Drawing on Dr. Rutan's decades of experience, he shares how people often reenact personal dynamics in groups, sometimes unconsciously, which gives therapists and peers the opportunity to reflect those patterns back in real-time. Rutan emphasizes that group therapy doesn't just talk about problems—it lives them, revealing defenses that protect against deeper vulnerability.

Dr. Rutan highlights the unique power of group therapy, where multiple members act as mirrors, making interpersonal patterns more visible than in individual therapy. Group dynamics often bring to light behaviors that individuals can describe but not fully demonstrate one-on-one. He and Kurt explore the deep human need for belonging, the therapist’s role as both leader and participant, and why groups so often become the place where the most profound change happens.

Links
Psychodynamic Group Psychotherapy by J. Scott Rutan
This widely adopted text and clinical reference covers the "whats," "whys," and "how-tos" of setting up therapy groups and making them work.

If you enjoy Unravelling, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us and tell you friends about us!

And listeners, take note! We always want to hear from you with reactions, topic ideas, stories or other suggestions. Send us an email, an old fashioned voice message, or a voice memo by using unravel@brattlebororetreat.org or by calling 802-258-POD3 (802-258-7633)!

In this episode of Unravelling, Mary sits down with Lane Gardner, musician, educator, and founder of Thread, a nonprofit using collaborative songwriting to help communities heal from trauma. Lane shares the story of a powerful workshop with students affected by a school shooting, illustrating how music became a lifeline and a symbol of resilience.
Through personal reflection and professional insight, Lane explains how creativity can serve as a powerful tool for self-expression, emotional release, and connection. Whether it's a simple drumbeat, a line of lyrics, or a moment of movement, Lane shows us how tapping into our innate creativity can help us navigate pain and reclaim our voice.

This episode highlights the transformative power of the arts, the importance of safe spaces, and why creativity isn't just for artists but for all of us.

Links
Lane's website: https://lanegardner.com/
Song written by Marjory Stoneman Douglas students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrgTEJm__w
Lane's album on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/49dPMfbxhXlBhd9154hRne

If you enjoy Unravelling, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us and tell you friends about us!

And listeners, take note! We always want to hear from you with reactions, topic ideas, stories or other suggestions. Send us an email, an old fashioned voice message, or a voice memo by using unravel@brattlebororetreat.org or by calling 802-258-POD3 (802-258-7633)!

In this episode of Unravelling, filmmaker and Occidental College professor Aleem Hossain joins host Kurt White for a wide-ranging conversation on the role creativity plays in both personal fulfillment and mental health. Aleem reflects on how making art can serve not only others, but our future selves—leaving behind breadcrumbs of who we were and what we felt. Together, he and Kurt unpack the personal and cultural barriers to embracing creativity, the importance of play and exploration without an end goal, and the joy of saying yes to one’s creative impulses.
They also explore the idea that consuming art is a creative act in itself—one that invites us to pause, feel, reflect, and connect with the full spectrum of being human. This episode is a reminder that being creative doesn’t mean being perfect or productive. Sometimes it just means making a little space, not judging yourself, and seeing what shows up.

Links:

Go to aleemhossein.com to learn more about Aleem's films and to subscribe to his newsletter on issues of creativity, inclusion, and diversity in filmmaking.

For an old photo of Kurt and Aleem at University of Chicago, and a picture of the 25 aliens that Kurt drew after this episode, click here!

If you enjoy Unravelling, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us and tell you friends about us!

And listeners, take note! We always want to hear from you with reactions, topic ideas, stories or other suggestions. Send us an email, an old fashioned voice message, or a voice memo by using unravel@brattlebororetreat.org or by calling 802-258-POD3 (802-258-7633)!

In this special crossover episode with Never Post, Unravelling host Kurt White joins writer and digital media expert Mike Rugnetta to explore how the internet shapes identity, self-perception, and mental health. From TikTok trends to the eerie accuracy of algorithmic recommendations, they unpack the tension between authenticity and performance in online spaces. How does the internet reinforce or distort who we are? What happens when our digital selves feel more real than our offline ones?

They also explore surprising parallels between online spaces and therapy, both offering structured spaces for identity exploration, while discussing the dangers of rigid self-concepts and the necessity of relationships in making sense of our experiences. Ultimately, this episode offers a hopeful perspective on engaging with the digital world: with awareness, playfulness, and the power to shape our own narratives.

Listen to Never Post, A Podcast About and For the Internet: https://www.neverpo.st/

In this episode of Unravelling, host Mary Wilson is joined by Betsy Stade, research scientist and clinical psychologist at the Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI, to explore the profound ways AI is reshaping therapy, mental health support, and human connection itself.

From AI-powered chatbots offering round-the-clock emotional support to cutting-edge research on how large language models like ChatGPT are used in therapy, Betsy unpacks the opportunities, risks, and ethical dilemmas of integrating AI into mental health care. The conversation dives into AI’s surprising ability to mimic empathy—sometimes even outperforming human professionals in perceived compassion. But what does this mean for real human connection?

Betsy also shares groundbreaking research from her lab on AI-assisted cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and AI training tools for therapists.

Links:

Betsy Stade's personal website: https://betsystade.github.io/

Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI

National Center for PTSD Mobile Apps: https://www.ptsd.va.gov/appvid/mobile/

In this episode of Unravelling, psychologist Dr. Zoeann Finzi-Adams speaks with Mary about the complexities of mental health in Black women, examining how racism and sexism intersect to shape their experiences. She challenges the "Strong Black Woman" archetype, which often forces Black women to prioritize resilience over their own well-being, making it harder to seek help or even believe they deserve it. She also unpacks the concept of group-based stressors, discussing how chronic exposure to discrimination, political and social stressors, and the cumulative effects of systemic oppression—often referred to as 'weathering'—impact psychological well-being. Dr. Finzi-Adams emphasizes the critical need to reframe social support as a strength rather than a weakness and encourages mental health providers to ask difficult questions, stay curious, and create spaces where Black women feel seen and supported in their healing journeys.

Resources:

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/handbook-on-counseling-african-american-women-9781440875953/

https://therapyforblackgirls.com/

https://www.thebirthfund.com/

In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White sits down with Professor Nnamdi Pole, Harold and Elsa Israel Professor of Psychology and Chair of the Psychology Department at Smith College, to discuss his course, The Psychology of the Black Experience. Professor Pole shares insights from his long-running course, delving into the role of psychology in understanding Black identity, collective experiences, and the impact of systemic forces like racism.

The conversation unpacks the origins of Black psychology as a response to scientific racism, which historically justified stereotypes of Black inferiority through flawed studies on IQ, skull sizes, and other biased metrics. Professor Pole traces the emergence of the Association of Black Psychologists and discusses the two major strands of Black psychology—one that counters racism by centering Black experiences, and another that explores pre-colonial African psychological traditions, emphasizing collectivism, spirituality, and alternative concepts of selfhood.

The discussion also tackles the evolving definition of race, the spectrum of racism from unconscious biases to systemic discrimination, and the challenges of teaching about race in a classroom with both Black and non-Black students. Professor Pole critiques colorblind ideologies, advocating instead for a pluralistic society where diverse identities are recognized and valued.

Many special thanks to Northfire Recording Studio in Amherst, MA, which provided space and equipment for our recording of this episode!

Links:

Professor Pole is available to do public speaking and/or diversity training in person or remotely for schools, clinical settings, or corporate settings. You can reach him at npole@smith.edu.

He suggests the following textbook and supplementary readings if you'd like to learn more:

Textbook: Belgrave, F.Z. & Allison, K.W. (2019). African American Psychology: From Africa to America (4th Edition). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.

Kahn, K. B., & McMahon, J. M. (2015). Shooting deaths of unarmed racial minorities: Understanding the role of racial stereotypes on decisions to shoot. Translational Issues in Psychological Science, 1(4), 310–320.

Karras J. E., Niwa E. Y., Adesina F., Ruck M. D. (2021) Confronting whiteness: Conceptual, contextual, and methodological considerations for advancing ethnic-racial socialization research to illuminate white identity development. Journal of Social Issues. 77: 1305–1326.

Lewis, J. A. (2023). Contributions of Black psychology scholars to models of racism and health: Applying intersectionality to center Black women. American Psychologist, 78(4), 576–588.

Lundberg, Kristjen B.; Payne, B. Keith; Pasek, Josh; Krosnick, Jon A. (2017). "Racial Attitudes Predicted Changes in Ostensibly Race‐Neutral Political Attitudes Under the Obama Administration." Political Psychology 38(2): 313-330.

Steele, C. M. (1997). A threat in the air: How stereotypes shape intellectual identity and performance. American Psychologist, 52(6), 613–629.

Vandiver, B. J. (2024). Fifty Years (1974–2024) of the Journal of Black Psychology: A Brief History and Reflection of Its Significance. Journal of Black Psychology, 50(1), 3-8.

Williams, M. T. (2021). Racial microaggressions: Critical questions, state of the science, and new directions. Perspectives on Psychological Science, 16(5), 880–885.

Selected videos:

The Race Gap: How U.S. systemic racism plays out in Black lives

Positive Racial Identity in Early Education

Seeing White

The Fake Link Between Race and Intelligence

Black Youth Suicide

This episode of Unravelling dives into the cultural, social, and personal complexities of alcohol use. As Dry January wraps up, many are reflecting on the role alcohol plays in their lives. Mary Wilson speaks with Jeanette Hu, a California-based psychotherapist and creator of the Sober Curiosity Lab, to explore the concept of "sober curiosity." Jeanette shares her insights on how alcohol is deeply woven into our societal fabric, why it’s often glamorized, and how its subtle costs are frequently overlooked. From questioning beliefs about drinking to exploring the emotional and physiological impacts of alcohol, this conversation offers a compassionate, nonjudgmental space to rethink our relationship with drinking. Whether you're a daily drinker, sober curious, or simply rethinking your habits, this episode invites you to reflect on how alcohol fits into your life—and how it might not.

Links:
Jeanette Hu's website: https://www.youcanhealwellness.com/
Free Dry January Playbook: https://www.sobercuriosity.co/lead-magnet-Dry-Jan-playbook
Free 30 Reasons Why People Drink Checklist: https://www.sobercuriosity.co/lead-magnet-30-reason-why-list-1