Electronic Medical Records have transformed the way we practice health care, making patient data readily accessible to health care providers, facilitating collaboration within and across large medical teams, increasing transparency, and drastically improving the legibility of patient charts and prescriptions. But despite these benefits, many physicians cite the electronic medical record as a primary driver of burnout, pointing to the overwhelming volume of documentation it requires. In this episode, we explore how the launch of EMRs within the context of America’s predominantly fee-for-service health care system led to the technology falling short of its promise — and how transitioning to value-based care models might redeem the technology, revitalize physicians, and recenter public health.

Our guest on this episode is Farzad Mostashari, MD. After completing a degree in public health at Harvard, medical school at Yale, and residency at Massachusetts General Hospital, Dr. Mostashari spent over a decade working in public health: first for the CDC’s Epidemic Intelligence Service and then for the New York City Department of Health. From 2009 to 2011, he served as the National Coordinator for Health IT at the Department of Health and Human Services where he helped oversee the nationwide transition from paper to electronic medical records. In 2014, he founded Aledade, a company that helps primary care physicians form value-based care networks in the US.

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Mostashari shares how his childhood in Iran pushed him towards public health, how his experience watching his father being cared for in the hospital drove him towards medicine, and how he has spent his career in the liminal space between public health and medicine. We discuss the rollout of EMRs, and how fee-for-service payment models led to EMRs being optimized for documentation rather than patient care. We explore how value-based care not only solves the problem of over-documentation, but also better aligns the goals of patients, physicians, and even insurance companies. Dr. Mostashari maps out the progress we have made toward this kind of model and the hurdles we have to clear before we have a system that incentivizes preventing stroke as much as treating stroke.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

3:35 - How Dr. Mostashari became drawn to the intersection between the intimate work of doctoring and the wide lens work of public health.

12:12 - Dr. Mostashari’s experiences modernizing health IT systems and learning to optimize for the number of lives saved rather than the number of technological solutions implemented.

16:05 - Dr. Mostashari’s assessment of the rollout of the electronic medical record in the US.

25:09 - How Aledade frees primary care physicians to prioritize patient outcomes and reduces the burden of EMR documentation.

38:57 - What the US can learn from international health care systems.

41:00 - Challenges in transitioning to outcome-based models of primary care.

50:30 - How Dr. Mostashari’s medical training has shaped his career in public health.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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Over the past 160 episodes, two themes that have appeared repeatedly feel as relevant and urgent as ever are 1) the pros and dehumanizing cons of technology and 2) approaching suffering in the human experience. In this episode, we are excited to bring back a panel of notable past guests to discuss the interplay between medicine, suffering, technology, and the human experience.

We are joined by historian Christine Rosen, PhD, philosopher Mikolaj Slawkowski-Rode, PhD, and palliative care physician Sunita Puri, MD. Rosen is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute whose work is focused on American history, society and culture, technology and culture, and feminism. Slawkowski-Rode is an assistant professor of philosophy at the University of Warsaw and research fellow at the University of Oxford with a current emphasis on the philosophy of science and religion. Dr. Puri is a palliative care physician, associate professor at the University of California, Irvine School of Medicine, and author of the critically acclaimed book That Good Night (2019).

As a panel, we consider a prominent aspect of the unwritten curriculum of medicine: how medicine often considers suffering and sorrow to be fixable and their eradication to be a metric of medical success. We explore ways digital technology can make our lives easier without making them better, and the pressing need to define and defend the (non-digital) human experience. We propose that the goal is not to eradicate all suffering, but to reduce needless suffering without denying the forms that accompany love, growth, and moral responsibility. When suffering is treated as an intolerable defect, we can become preoccupied with self-protection and less available to one another. The first and most important gift a caregiver can give is their undivided attention and the biggest mistake we can make in medicine is turning away from suffering. Finally, we ponder if for both patients and physicians, life, in the end, is meant to be a mystery.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

6:37 – Unlearning preconceived perspectives on suffering, technology, and human experience.

13:08 – Engaging with digital technology critically instead of presuming that technological progress is inherently good.

19:28 – Suffering as an irradicable and sometimes necessary element of the human condition.

27:50 – Helping young terminal patients grapple with their diagnosis as a palliative care doctor.

36:36 – How the pursuit of immortality can lead to moral sickness.

47:08 – How digital technologies are inciting a collective disembodiment from reality.

53:15 – Practices that will positively impact the modern lived experience.

Explore our guests’ past episodes on The Doctor’s Art:

Human Experience in A Digital World | Christine Rosen, PhD

A Philosophy of Grief | Mikolaj Slawkowski-Rode, PhD

The Beauty of Impermanence | Sunita Puri, MD

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2026

Most medical encounters are structured as transactions. The patient comes in with a specific complaint, the medical expert identifies a discrete problem, and a specific intervention is prescribed.

But at the heart of a medical encounter is a story. When a patient comes in with a medical problem, the problem cannot be disentangled from their life’s narrative — doing so risks hollowing out the essence of what it means to care for another person.

Our guest on this episode is award-winning author, and primary care physician Suzanne Koven, MD. Following the completion of her residency at Johns Hopkins Hospital, Dr. Koven joined the faculty at Harvard Medical School and practiced primary care medicine at Massachusetts General for 32 years. In 2019, she became the inaugural Writer in Residence at Mass General. Her writings have been published broadly—including in The Boston Globe, The New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, and The New Yorker. As a teacher and public speaker, she highlights the relationship between literature and medicine, and is a powerful advocate for female medical trainees.

In this episode, Dr. Koven shares her journey to medicine at a time when few women were represented in the field and why she finds her undergraduate English classes to be more relevant to her clinical work than her science classes. We discuss narrative medicine, its value to patients and physicians alike, and how the modern healthcare system struggles to value the patient story. Finally, Dr. Koven leaves us with her advice for up-and-coming trainees: find a place in medicine where you can be yourself – for your own good and for your patients’.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

3:00 - Dr. Koven’s motivations for going into primary care medicine

15:49 - The impact that Dr. Koven’s English degree has had on her approach to medicine

19:36 - What narrative medicine is

24:34 - What is lost when human connection and human story are deprioritized within the practice of medicine

31:15 - The benefits doctors experience when cultivating an appreciation for the arts

37:21 - How gender representation in medicine has shaped Dr. Koven’s experience as a physician

42:54 - The need for the culture of medicine to adapt to changing demographics in the medical workforce

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2026

Dr. Bryant Lin is a primary care physician, educator, and researcher at Stanford University. In 2018, he founded CARE – the Center for Asian Health Research and Education. In 2023, CARE began a focused research effort investigating lung cancer in non-smoking Asians. In 2024, Dr. Lin was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer, having never smoked in his life.

After his diagnosis, Dr. Lin sprung into action. He began receiving care from Dr. Heather Wakelee – a Stanford oncologist specializing in lung cancer. Dr Wakelee is the Deputy Director of the Stanford Cancer Institute, the Division Chief of Medical Oncology, and a leader in the International Association for the Study of Lung Cancer. In this episode, we are privileged to be joined by both Dr. Lin and his oncologist, Dr. Wakelee.

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Lin describes the experience of receiving and living with a diagnosis that has been life changing for both him and his family. He details his remarkable efforts to leverage his diagnosis for the good of patients and rising medical professionals — and explains how spiritual practices have helped sustain him through this difficult time. Dr. Wakelee shares her approach to first visits with patients facing daunting cancer diagnoses, how she approaches grief, and the unique privilege and challenge of treating a colleague. Together, the doctor and his physician explore the value of hope in cancer, the dangers of false hope, and the importance of maximizing meaning in life — however much time is left.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

2:50 - Dr. Lin’s experience of being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer despite having never smoked

14:20 - Dr. Wakelee’s approach to first visits with newly diagnosed lung cancer patients

25:35 - Dr. Lin’s experience of shifting from the mindset of “doctor” to the mindset of “patient”

30:30 - How a doctor’s messaging can affect the patient’s outlook on their diagnosis

43:00 - The common themes prevalent across religions and spiritual orientations that support patients in the navigation of serious illness

50:24 - Advice to doctors for finding deeper meaning in medicine

Listen to Dr. Lin’s first appearance on The Doctor’s Art.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2026

Many of us quietly accept the idea that our best self lives somewhere in the past — that youth is the ideal and aging is a slow erosion of who we really are. But what if getting older isn’t about losing our identity, but deepening it? What if the second half of life could be defined not by decline, but by “joyspan”—our capacity for meaning, connection, and contentment as we age?

Our guest on this episode is gerontologist and author Kerry Burnight, PhD. As a professor at the University of California, Irvine School of Medicine, Dr. Burnight spent 16 years caring for older adults suffering neglect and abuse. She co-founded the nation’s first Elder Abuse Forensic Center, bringing together medicine, adult protective services, and law enforcement to protect vulnerable older adults. Her search for how to help people not just avoid harm, but truly thrive into their later decades led to her work on joyspan, culminating in her New York Times best-selling book Joyspan: The Art and Science of Thriving in Life’s Second Half (2025). Her work has been featured in outlets including The New York Times, The Guardian, BBC News, and Forbes Health.

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Burnight details the experience of working with older adults suffering from neglect and abuse, the importance of team camaraderie for getting through dark moments, and the need to humanize people going through dehumanizing situations. We discuss joyspan as well-being and fulfillment combined with longevity; how focusing on growing, connecting, adapting, and giving can increase joyspan; how the internalized belief that we have less to offer as we age threatens joyspan; and how older adults are uniquely positioned to contribute to society. Dr. Burnight reminds us that joyspan is a health habit, and the best time to start focusing on this health habit is today.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

3:00 - The story behind the first Elder Abuse Forensics Center

11:45 - Dr. Burnight’s advice for frontline workers navigating cases of elder abuse

15:05 - How social connection improves health outcomes

24:00 - Defining joy and how joy can coexist with aging

33:15 - How our personal outlook on aging can impact our aging experience

44:30 - The four elements of joyspan

48:30 - Ways to build meaning into your life

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

Many of the world’s best physicians find it surprisingly difficult to answer the question: Why are you in medicine? In the long, arduous journey of medical training or within the technocratically-minded healthcare system, one can easily get lost in the life of the mind—and become estranged from the life of the heart.

Our guest on this episode is Brewer Eberly, MD, a third-generation family physician and a fellow at Duke Divinity School’s Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative. Dr. Eberly grew up listening to physicians in his family discuss their work and was drawn to how life’s biggest questions are present in medicine. Now, his research focuses on the intersections of medicine, aesthetics, and theology — with a special focus on the “nourishment of weary clinicians.”

Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Eberly shares how his early interests in art and literature continue to shape his life and work, and how the privilege of accompanying patients in all stages of life motivates his practice. We discuss how family medicine requires practitioners to have something to say about the well-lived life, and how this kind of wisdom is forged in silent contemplation. Finally, Dr. Eberly concludes with a profound and personal reflection on the question: What does it mean to willingly receive the suffering of someone that you cannot fix?

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

2:36 - Dr. Eberly’s medical and creative origin stories

10:45 - What makes family medicine unique, and Dr. Eberly’s approach to his work

22:30 - How Dr. Eberly tries to stay connected to the meaning of medicine

29:00 - The “Good Surgeon Project”

37:45 - Dr. Eberly’s view of the limitations of artificial intelligence in medicine

43:30 - Ways of engaging with and being present for the suffering of patients

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

We often confuse happiness with the absence of sadness, or a meaningful life with a productive one. The result might be a life that runs smoothly, but feels strangely flat — as if something essential is missing from the story. What if a truly good life isn’t just happy and meaningful, but also interesting?

Our guest today is Shige Oishi, PhD, professor of psychology at the University of Chicago and author of Life in Three Dimensions (2025). Oishi pioneered the idea of psychological richness — the notion that a good life requires a diverse set of interesting, even disorienting experiences. As an expert in social ecology and well-being, his work spans more than 200 scientific articles and has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal.

Over the course of our conversation, professor Oishi traces his own journey from an undergraduate in booming-economy Tokyo — surrounded by overworked, unhappy adults — to a career in psychology in the United States, where seeing professors live differently opened his eyes to alternative ways of being. We explore how cultures like Japan, the United States, Finland, and Denmark differ in what they chase and expect from life; why small, everyday joys and high-quality relationships matter more than grand achievements; and how “success” and “ambition” can quietly shape our sense of happiness.

We then dive into psychological richness as a third dimension of the good life alongside happiness and meaning — one defined by variety, newness, and memorable stories, often colored by both positive and negative emotions. We discuss the risks of chasing only stability and efficiency; the importance of spontaneity; and the surprisingly simple ways we can cultivate psychological richness by staying curious and saying “yes” more often.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

3:00 - Oishi’s path to studying the psychology of wellbeing

8:45 - Rising competitiveness in American culture and how it is affecting lifelong happiness

13:30 - Why Finland and Denmark are regularly rated the happiest countries

15:55 - Whether there is a “correct” way to find meaning and happiness

19:15 - What it means to be “psychologically rich”

28:00 - Balancing positive and negative emotions in a happy, meaningful, and psychologically rich life

41:30 - Developing psychological richness

45:45 - How psychological richness can help address physician burnout

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

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When a religious person is isolated from their community, whether due to hospitalization or military service, they can often rely on a chaplain for spiritual support. But where does a non-religious person turn when facing the same circumstances? And what tools do they have for meaning making?

Our guest is Greg Epstein, humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT and author of the New York Times bestselling book Good Without God. As a humanist chaplain, Greg has spent his career building ethical communities that are united around the idea that human sociality and interdependence are a sufficient foundation for a meaningful life. Greg’s writings have been published widely, including in TIME magazine and The Washington Post, and he is a prominent public speaker in humanist and interfaith communities.

In our conversation, Greg explains the role of a humanist chaplain, why a humanist chaplain is not necessarily an oxymoron, and how he guides individuals on their meaning-making journey. We discuss Greg’s candidate for the world’s most powerful word and a humanist’s argument for pursuing the work of healing over wealth. And finally, Greg walks us through the thesis of his most recent book Tech Agnostic – how technology has become a religion of its own, with a particular set of downsides.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

2:30 - Mr Epstein’s personal definitions of ‘chaplain’ and ‘religion’

8:23 - How Mr. Epstein uses a humanist framework to guide meaning-making

24:35 - Is there an absolute ‘good’?

33:25 - The risks of technology as a religion

45:30 - Advice for medical professionals engaged in the work of healing while operating within a system built for profit

Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to info@thedoctorsart.com.

Copyright The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025