IN THIS EPISODE

In today’s episode, Sarah introduces Madison, a new therapist and grad student at Kindman and Co. They discuss their soon-to-be-launched caregiver support group. Both share personal experiences being caregivers and reflect on the challenges and responsibilities that come with this role. They express the importance of support systems, the evolving nature of caregiving, and their hopes for the group's impact.

TOPICS

Caregivers, Therapy, Support Group, Community, Mental Health Support

KEY FIGURES

Sarah Barukh, Madison Segarra, Kindman & Co.

SUMMARY

In this episode of 'Out of Session with Kindman and Co.', Sarah and new team member Madison discuss the launch of their upcoming caregiver support group. Both Sarah and Madison share personal experiences of being caregivers. They reflect on the challenges and evolving responsibilities that come with caregiving roles and the crucial need for support systems. Their conversation emphasizes the yearning for community, understanding, and advocacy to help caregivers navigate their responsibilities more effectively and feel less isolated in their roles.

The episode touches on various emotions associated with caregiving, such as anxiety, fear, and resentment, especially when caregivers consider the long-term commitments to their loved ones. Both hosts agree on the necessity of having someone to lean on, whether it's family, partners, or a support group, and the importance of defining their roles through meaningful language and ownership. They highlight that caregiving requires acute awareness and emotional resilience, often involving preemptive actions to meet the needs of those they care for.

Sarah and Madison express hopes for their new support group to provide a space for caregivers to share experiences, exchange resources, and receive validation. This group aims to create a community where caregivers can find solace, exchange knowledge, and, most importantly, feel understood and less alone in their journeys.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Caregiving Often Comes Without a RoadmapMany caregivers step into the role without preparation, training, or support, learning on the fly while navigating complex healthcare, emotional, and personal challenges.
  

• The Emotional Toll of Caregiving Is Deep and Often InvisibleCaregivers experience isolation, burnout, guilt, and identity shifts, especially when societal recognition and support systems are lacking.
  

• There’s Power in Naming and Sharing the Caregiving ExperienceCreating language and space for caregivers to talk about their roles fosters community, healing, and validation, helping reduce stigma and silence.
  

• Peer-led initiatives can foster meaningful change.Madison and Sarah’s support group aims to build a “spider web” of connection for caregivers, proving that shared lived experience is a powerful tool for healing and advocacy.

KEY QUOTES

“It doesn't make the weight any lighter, but you feel more supported in carrying it.”

— Sarah

“The idea that you are also allowed to have needs can feel really foreign.”

— Sarah

“There’s nobody to ever give you a handout for how to navigate this system.”

— Madison

“Community makes the hardest things feel more manageable.”

— Sarah

CALL TO ACTION

Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.

Interested in joining Sarah and Madison’s support group for caregivers? Follow this link to visit the group’s page on our website.

kindman.co

IN THIS EPISODE

Two therapists unpack how masculinity is shaped by social policing, reflect on their own experiences of being shamed for vulnerability, and introduce a new men’s group dedicated to exploring more expansive and emotionally authentic forms of masculinity.

TOPICS

masculinity, vulnerability, therapy, community, connection, men’s groups

KEY FIGURES

Jesse Romo, Liam DeGeorgio, Kindman & Co.

SUMMARY

In this episode, therapists Jesse and Liam revisit the theme of masculinity, reflecting on the ways boys and men are taught early in life to suppress tenderness and vulnerability. They share personal stories of being policed for showing emotion and describe how aggression and “boys will be boys” attitudes were rewarded, even as they caused long-term harm.

The conversation explores how patriarchy limits everyone, including men themselves, and why vulnerability and emotional honesty are not weaknesses but deeper forms of strength. Liam introduces his new group, Redefining Masculinity, which provides a supportive space for masc-presenting individuals to affirm one another, experiment with new ways of expressing themselves, and challenge harmful norms together.

Together, Jesse and Liam highlight the ripple effect of healing—how individual men learning to express vulnerability can influence friends, partners, families, and future generations.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Masculinity often discourages tenderness and vulnerability while rewarding aggression, leading to isolation and emotional harm.
  

• Early childhood experiences of shame and policing shape how men learn to perform masculinity.
  

• Vulnerability and emotional honesty are acts of courage that foster deeper connection and resilience.
  

• Groups like Redefining Masculinity create space for men to unlearn limiting norms and model new ways of being.
  

• Healing within community ripples outward, inspiring change in families, friendships, and society.
  

KEY QUOTES

• "From a young age, boys are taught to police each other into a narrow version of masculinity." — Liam
  
• "If you start crying, people will call you a girl. But if you get angry, people don’t make fun of you — they’re afraid of you. That’s how I adapted." — Jesse
  
• "Patriarchy convinces men that the easy way out is to avoid feelings. But the real work — the stronger path — is being vulnerable, accountable, and uncomfortable." — Jesse
  
• "Nobody’s born a hyper-alpha male who doesn’t want connection. Those parts of us get shut down — and it’s about reviving them." — Liam
  
• "Groups like this matter because they give us space to explore without shame, to ask questions instead of being told: ‘Don’t go there, dude.’" — Liam
  
• "Change ripples outward. When men embrace vulnerability, it impacts their partners, their families, and the next generation." — Jesse

CALL TO ACTION

Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.

Interested in Liam’s Redefining Masculinity group? Follow this link to visit the group’s page on our website.

IN THIS EPISODE:

Through a candid, unscripted conversation, two associate therapists explore what it really feels like to step into the role of healer while still learning how to hold space for themselves. Liam and Sarah reflect on their paths into therapy, the tension between confidence and self-doubt, and how the therapeutic relationship transforms both client and clinician.

TOPICS:

becoming a therapist, early-career therapy, therapist vulnerability, relational therapy, self-doubt, impostor syndrome, authenticity, capitalism & mental health, therapeutic relationship

SUMMARY:

In this episode, Liam and Sarah—two associate therapists early in their clinical journeys—sit down for an honest conversation about what it's really like to become a therapist. They unpack their own winding paths into the mental health field, from political organizing and museum gift shopsto EMDR and case management.

Sarah shares how growing up in deep one-on-one conversations shaped her sense of belonging and guided her toward therapy—even as fear and self-doubt made herquestion whether she was “cut out for it.” Liam reflects on his resistance to traditional work structures, and how therapy offered not just a career path, but a relational home—one built on authenticity, curiosity, and mutual care.

Together, they challenge productivity-based models of mental health that treat therapy as something to be “fixed.” Instead, they advocate for therapy as a slow, relational unfolding—one where connection, not just coping skills, becomes the vehicle for change.

Whether you’re a fellow clinician, someone considering a mental health career, or a client wondering what goes on behind the scenes, this conversation offers a rare window into the inner worlds of two therapists still becoming.

KEY QUOTES:

• "I realized that while my therapist was helping me, I was helping her—just by being in that relationship." — Liam

• "It’s not like I woke up one day and said, 'This is what I'm meant to do.' It took a lot of hard conversations and reflection." — Sarah

• "You go to someone and tell them you’re feeling awful, and they hand you a worksheet? That’s not therapy. That’s capitalism." — Liam

• "People aren’t coming to be fixed. They’re coming to be felt with." — Sarah

• "There’s wisdom in everybody at every age, if we’re willing to be real with each other." — Liam

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Therapists are always becoming. The work requires constant self-reflection, vulnerability, and a willingness to grow.

• The therapeutic relationship is not one-directional.Clients often help their therapists evolve, too.

• Quick fixes don’t work. The deeper healing happens overtime, through connection and presence—not productivity hacks.

• New therapists often struggle with doubt. Community, mentorship, and honest conversations help keep us grounded.

• Being a therapist means being human. It's not about having the answers—it's about being willing to sit in the unknown with someone else.

This episode is bringing you to the Decolonizing Therapy podcast, From Root to Bone.

From Root To Bone is the podcast for people who are parched, poised and primed to rehydrate our souls and do some unlearning. Dr. Jenn unlocks the gates and has real ass conversations with elders, teachers and her intellectual crushes, folks doing the real ass work towards reclaiming the juiciest parts of our ancestry, history, collective health and liberation.

IN THIS EPISODE: Through an engaging conversation, Shannon Stott reveals how improv can be a transformative practice for personal growth, healing, and building empathetic connections across diverse experiences.

TOPICS: play, identity, Presence, healing, Improv, community

KEY FIGURES: Logan Kim, Shannon Stott, Yinka Freeman, Know Other Fest, Vivica C. Coxx, Jozie Clapp, Nika Cherelle, Kindman & Co.

SUMMARY:

In this episode, Logan Kim and Shannon Stott discuss the transformative power of improv as a healing and self-discovery tool. Shannon, the creator of 'Improv On and Off the Stage', shares her journey of discovering improv's potential through her experiences living in different cultures and learning to create worlds and connections quickly on stage.

The conversation centers around Shannon's workshops at Know Other Fest, a queer camping and wellness experience, where she led interactive improv exercises designed to help participants connect with themselves and others. They discuss specific games like the hand-raising awareness exercise and the clapping game, which illustrate how improv can help people learn to be present, make choices, and accept vulnerability in a low-stakes environment.

Throughout the episode, Shannon emphasizes that improv is more than just comedy-it's a method of communication, self-exploration, and building understanding between people. By creating imaginary scenarios and practicing acceptance through the principle of 'yes, and', participants can learn to be more present, accept different perspectives, and discover deeper aspects of themselves in a playful, supportive context.

KEY QUOTES:

• "You can connect with yourself. You're not as scary as you think. The depths of you aren't as scary as you think." - Shannon Stott

• "We're always sort of improvising... you don't even sort of like the signals. You're not aware sometimes of the signals your body's giving you." - Shannon Stott

• "If I can be vulnerable enough to get on stage and put my hand in the air and talk like a giraffe, where did that even come from? Who am I inside?" - Shannon Stott

• "You have to get comfortable with who you are, because who you are may be all you're ever going to be." - Logan Kim

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Shannon Stott uses improv as a healing practice to help people connect with themselves and others through playful, low-stakes interactions

• Improv can be a powerful tool for developing self-awareness by creating opportunities to tune into bodily sensations and make conscious choices

• Know Other Fest provides a unique queer community space where LGBTQ+ individuals can explore and express themselves freely away from external pressures

• The core principles of improv, like saying 'yes, and' and listening deeply, can be applied to real-life communication and understanding

• Connecting with oneself can be challenging, but play and improvisation offer a less intimidating pathway to self-discovery

• Presence and being in the moment are crucial skills that can be practiced through improvisational techniques

• Shannon's background of living in multiple cultures inspired her approach to improv as a method of world-building and mutual understanding

• Healing and personal growth can happen in spaces beyond traditional therapy, such as through creative practices like improvisation

This Episode is Bringing You To:

Community Highlight: Beyond the Binary Therapy Group

A therapist-led space for trans, nonbinary & gender-expansive folks seeking connection & community.

Decolonize Your Feed

@queerblackwomenallianceatx

A safe space centering wellness, community, and education for queer Black women in Austin.

@vivicaccoxx

Vivica C. Coxx (she/they) is a drag artist, activist, and speaker uplifting BIPOC & trans LGBTQ+ stories.

@nikacherrelle

Sex coach & host of The “It” Cast, Nika (they/them) breaks down shame & centers consent in sex ed.

IN THIS EPISODE: Therapists living with chronic illness share their personal journeys of navigating health challenges, emphasizing the importance of community, self-acceptance, and finding humor in the face of ongoing medical struggles. Find the transcript ⁠here⁠.

TOPICS: healthcare, chronic illness, Disability, Bodies, community, mental health

KEY FIGURES: Spoon theory, Christine Miserandino, Kindman & Co., L.A. Spoonie Collective, raíces therapy, Kaitlin Kindman, Gaby Teresa, Dani Marrufo, Anna Kim, Clarissa Santisteban

SUMMARY:

In this podcast episode, a group of therapists who identify as 'Spoonies' (people living with chronic illness) discuss their personal experiences navigating chronic health conditions. They explore the challenges of accepting and identifying with chronic illness, including the emotional journey of recognizing one's limitations, dealing with medical gaslighting, and the societal pressure to push through physical challenges. The participants share how they were raised to ignore bodily signals and the difficulty of learning to listen to their bodies and acknowledge their health struggles.

The group delves into the concept of 'Spoon Theory,' which explains how people with chronic illness have limited daily energy (represented by spoons) and must carefully manage their physical and emotional resources. They discuss the importance of community and finding support among others who understand the unique challenges of living with chronic illness. The conversation highlights the isolating nature of chronic conditions and the relief of finding a supportive network that validates their experiences.

Throughout the episode, the participants use humor and vulnerability to discuss the complex emotional landscape of chronic illness. They address topics such as medical challenges, the grief process of accepting ongoing health conditions, and the ways chronic illness impacts identity and relationships. The group emphasizes the power of finding humor, building community, and developing resilience while living with unpredictable and challenging health conditions.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Spoon theory explains how people with chronic illness have limited daily energy, requiring careful prioritization of tasks and activities

• Finding community and support with other chronically ill people helps reduce isolation, shame, and provides validation of challenging lived experiences

• Accepting a chronic illness is a grief process that involves confronting medical gaslighting, societal disbelief, and learning to listen to one's body

• Chronic illness often requires unlearning cultural messages about 'pushing through' and instead developing new practices of self-care and energy management

• Humor and laughter can be powerful coping mechanisms for dealing with the challenges of chronic illness, allowing people to process difficult experiences

• Many people with chronic illnesses struggle with 'invisible' conditions that are not immediately apparent, making self-advocacy and medical validation difficult

• Chronic illness impacts multiple aspects of life, including mental health, relationships, work, and personal identity, requiring ongoing adaptation

• Online and in-person support groups provide critical spaces for chronically ill people to share experiences, resources, and feel less alone

This episode is bringing you to...

🔹 Chronic Illness Therapy Group – Led by Dani, this group offers a supportive space for folks living with chronic illness to process, connect, and be witnessed. Fill out the interest form here.
🔹 L.A. Spoonie Collective – A radical, abolitionist mutual aid collective created by and for chronically ill and disabled people in Los Angeles. They offer community care, political education, and tangible support rooted in disability justice.

TOPICS: coping, play, adulthood, Privilege, Creativity

KEY FIGURES: Dan Siegel, Jesse Romo, Dani Marrufo, Healthy Mind Platter, Kindman & Co.

SUMMARY:In this episode of Out of Session, hosts Dani Marrufo⁠ and ⁠Jesse Romo⁠ explore the concept of play in adulthood, discussing how the spontaneous, purposeless nature of play that comes naturally to children becomes increasingly difficult to maintain as people grow older. They reflect on their childhood experiences of play, sharing personal stories about imaginative games, crafting, and outdoor activities that were driven by pure enjoyment rather than productivity or specific goals.

The conversation delves into the societal pressures that make play challenging for adults, including the pervasive culture of productivity, the need to justify time spent on non-goal-oriented activities, and the ways in which privilege impacts one's ability to engage in playful experiences. They discuss how financial constraints, work demands, and systemic challenges can limit opportunities for play, particularly for marginalized communities who may be more focused on survival than recreation.

Throughout the episode, Dani and Jesse explore play as a form of self-expression, coping mechanism, and connection, highlighting personal examples like Jesse's music creation and Dani's crafting of 'ugly keychains'. They conclude by challenging listeners to reconnect with play as a vital aspect of human experience, emphasizing the importance of engaging in activities without pressure, purpose, or the need for external validation.

KEY QUOTES:• "Play that is purposeless, play that isn't about learning something specific... it's intuitive, it's self-evident when you're in it completely." - Jesse Romo• "How easy is it to actually feel playful when being a person of color or being queer or being trans in our world as it currently is?" - Jesse Romo• "As adults, we don't play as often as kids do. And I feel like that's what's resonating... why is it so hard to play as an adult?" - Jesse Romo• "We get so used to having to justify our time." - Jesse Romo• "It is a privilege to play. You need some financial privilege to have more diversity in play." - Dani Marrufo

KEY TAKEAWAYS:• Play becomes increasingly difficult for adults as societal expectations of productivity and purpose make spontaneous, purposeless activities feel 'unproductive'• Playfulness can be a form of coping, self-expression, and imagination, particularly during challenging life experiences• The ability to play is influenced by privilege, including financial resources, time, emotional bandwidth, and systemic oppression• Many adults lose the natural, uninhibited approach to play that children have, becoming self-critical and overly focused on outcomes• Play doesn't need to have a specific goal or be monetized - its value lies in the experience itself and the joy it brings• Different forms of play exist, from creative hobbies to spontaneous activities like dance parties, and can be deeply personal and meaningful• The current societal and global context can make it challenging to feel playful, as heavy emotions and stressors can inhibit one's capacity for lightheartedness

Look out for the full transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for our Kindman & Co. newsletter on our website to get community updates!

This episode is bringing you to:

YOU! We hope that this episode motivates or encourages you to play. Whether it's getting outside, doing something crafty, or something else, we encourage you to play without pressure, without purpose, and without needing to validate or justify your play to yourself or anyone else.

IN THIS EPISODE: In a candid discussion about managing stress and anxiety, two therapists offer compassionate insights into navigating complex social challenges through community support, self-care, and collective resilience.

TOPICS: Media, community, Stress, activism, dissociation, Anxiety

KEY FIGURES: Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Sanders, Steve Wilson, Ava Max, Zach Stafford, Vibe Check, Saeed Jones, Logan Kim, Mutual Aid LA Network, Criterion Collection, Blue Caftan

SUMMARY:In this episode of Out of Session, hosts ⁠Steve Wilson⁠ and ⁠Logan Kim⁠ discuss the challenges of managing stress and anxiety during tumultuous times, particularly focusing on the political and social climate surrounding the second Trump presidency. They explore the overwhelming range of systemic stressors affecting people, including political changes, climate issues, queerphobia, transphobia, racism, and other social challenges that contribute to feelings of fear, helplessness, and anxiety.

The hosts emphasize the importance of finding balance in engaging with difficult realities while not becoming completely overwhelmed. They discuss coping strategies such as seeking community connection, practicing self-care, finding joy in small moments, and recognizing that dissociation and other coping mechanisms are natural responses to extreme stress. They also highlight the significance of being kind to oneself and understanding that individuals cannot solve all societal problems alone.

Throughout the conversation, Steve and Logan advocate for taking action through community involvement, creative expression, and supporting collective efforts. They recommend finding ways to contribute that feel personally meaningful, whether through joining specific advocacy groups, supporting younger generations, engaging in creative pursuits, or simply finding moments of joy and connection. The episode ultimately offers a compassionate and hopeful perspective on navigating challenging social landscapes by maintaining human connection and resilience.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:• Feeling fear, anxiety, and overwhelm in response to current societal challenges is a normal and valid emotional reaction• Practicing self-care is not selfish, but crucial for maintaining personal and community resilience during stressful times• Finding and maintaining community connection is essential for combating feelings of powerlessness and isolation• There are multiple ways to take action and support social causes beyond traditional protest, including supporting grassroots organizations and being intentional about where you get information• Creative expression and finding moments of joy are important forms of resistance and personal healing during challenging times• Systemic challenges often rely on individual feelings of helplessness, so recognizing collective power is crucial for maintaining hope• Queer and marginalized identities remain valid and resilient regardless of oppressive political policies or social pressures

This episode is bringing you to:

Mutual Aid LA Network, a connector and information hub for mutual aid efforts, people and resources across Los Angeles. They’re building toward abolition and believe in an abundant world that can be freed of oppression through community solidarity. Check out their Group Directory for a running list of mutual aid groups active across LA. You’ll find links, info about what the group is and what they do, and tags to help you search and filter for groups needing volunteers or donations! Instagram: @mutualaidla

One podcast we’re recommending to decolonize your media feed is Vibe Check, a podcast run by three queer black men, Saeed Jones, Sam Sanders, and Zack Stafford and their take on pop culture and current events. Tune in on your favorite streaming platform to listen to them make sense of what’s going on in news and culture, and how it all feels. Instagram: @vibecheck_pod