IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode, Sarah, Madison, and Elizabeth get into what rupture really looks like, why repair feels so scary, how to know when a relationship is worth the effort, and what it actually takes to have those hard conversations without blowing everything up.

So if you've ever wanted to get better at conflict — or just wondered why it feels so hard — this one's for you.

SUMMARY:

In this episode of Out of Session with Kindman and Co., therapists Sarah, Madison, and Elizabeth discuss “rupture and repair” in relationships. They define rupture as a disconnect or fracture that can show up as awkward energy, silence, yelling, or a gut sense that something is off, often triggering fear and nervous system responses like fight-or-flight. Repair is described as a courageous, sometimes privileged process of addressing harm through conversation, regulation, and vulnerability, which can create safety, closeness, and a “corrective experience” that rewires expectations over time.

TOPICS:

Rupture and Repair, Mental Health Support, Community, Therapists

KEY FIGURES:

Sarah Barukh, ACSW

Elizabeth Taylor, AMFT

Madison Segarra

Kindman & Co.

1. Rupture doesn't always look like a big fight.

Rupture can be subtle — a weird energy in the room, a gut feeling that something's off, a quiet disconnect. You don't need to be screaming at each other to be in a rupture. Learning to recognize those smaller moments is the first step toward addressing them.
2. Your nervous system is trying to protect you — but it might be getting in the way.

When conflict arises, our bodies go into fight or flight mode almost instantly — especially if we grew up in environments where conflict felt unsafe. That physical response is real and valid, but it can make it nearly impossible to have a productive conversation in the heat of the moment.

3. Space is one of the most powerful repair tools you have.

Trying to resolve things when emotions are at their peak rarely works. Giving yourself time to regulate — whether that's a walk, some time alone, or simply breathing — helps bring your prefrontal cortex back online so you can actually think clearly and communicate effectively.

4. Repair can literally rewire your brain.

Every time you successfully navigate a rupture and come out the other side, you're sending a new message to your nervous system — that conflict doesn't have to mean abandonment or danger. Over time, this creates a corrective experience that makes hard conversations feel less terrifying and more manageable.

5. Repair requires trust, vulnerability, and a shared intention.

The goal of a repair conversation isn't to prove who was right. It's to reaffirm that you care about each other and want the relationship to continue. When both people come to the table with that intention, something really beautiful can happen — even if it's messy getting there.

KEY QUOTES:

"When it's done, when I've done it and when people have done it to me — it really does feel like a superpower." — Sarah (on the experience of successful repair)

"It's kind of rewiring you in real time. I mean, that doesn't get more magical than that." — Sarah

“Those ruptures really pushed us to communicate. Figure this the hell out. And we were always stronger after." — Elizabeth

“I might want a repair, but that's not always possible.” — Elizabeth (on the honest reality that not every rupture leads to repair)

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to Kindman & Co. If this conversation resonated with you — if you found yourself nodding along, or maybe thinking about a relationship in your life that could use a little repair — just know that that feeling is worth paying attention to.

Whether you're navigating a rough patch in a relationship, working through patterns that keep showing up in your life, or just ready to do something kind for yourself — we'd love to be a part of that journey. You can find us at kindman.co or come visit us in Highland Park.

IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Paul and Dani sit down in a very real, very human place: tired, grieving, a little cynical, and unsure they “got it” today. What unfolds is an honest conversation about what happens when life hands you things that can’t be fixed — persistent grief, chronic stress, old childhood loneliness, the slow drip of exhaustion.

Together, they wrestle with what it means to support clients, friends, and each other when there’s no clear solution. At the heart of the episode is a simple but powerful shift: moving from “I don’t got this” to “We got this.” It’s a conversation about borrowing hope, showing up imperfectly, and discovering that sometimes connection — not fixing — is what actually transforms the moment.

TOPICS:

Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Community, Hope

KEY FIGURES:

Paul Kindman, LMFT

Dani Marrufo, LMFT

Kindman & Co.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Resignation and acceptance are not the same.
Both acknowledge that something “is,” but resignation feels hopeless and powerless, while acceptance leaves room for agency, compassion, and even possibility.
2. Not everything in life is fixable — and that’s hard to tolerate.

As therapists and as humans, there’s a deep pull to fix pain. But much of life’s suffering (grief, chronic stress, old wounds) requires learning how to carry it, not cure it.

3. Hope can feel complicated.

Optimism can be grounding and reassuring — or it can feel dismissive and insincere. There’s a tension between offering validation (“this sucks”) and offering reassurance (“we’ll figure it out”).

4. Borrowed hope is powerful.

When “I don’t got this” feels true, shifting to “we got this” can restore a sense of shared strength. Connection expands capacity.

5. Showing up imperfectly can transform the moment.

Even when exhausted, grieving, or unsure, choosing to show up — for a friend, a client, or a conversation — can shift the experience from isolation to connection.

KEY QUOTES:

1. “It takes a lot of energy just to be a person these days.” — Paul

2. “I know it’s gonna just be there and I think I’m waiting to just hold it differently.” — Dani

3. “Resignation is a relatively hopeless way of approaching something that just is, and acceptance is maybe a slightly more hopeful.” — Paul

4. “If I show up for my friend, it might actually meaningfully transform my experience.” — Paul

5. “I don’t got it.” — Dani

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to a friend you’ve been meaning to text or wanting to show up for. We encourage you to reach out and remember that borrowed hope is powerful and showing up imperfectly can transform the moment.

Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.

IN THIS EPISODE:

In this episode of ‘Out of Session’ by Kindman and Co., hosts Liam and Sarah dive deep into the systemic nature of burnout. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, they debunk the myth that burnout is an individual problem and highlight how workplace culture, unrealistic expectations, and lack of community contribute to this pervasive issue. They also discuss the importance of building connections with colleagues and offer practical advice on how to navigate and mitigate burnout. Tune in to explore how to reclaim your well-being in a demanding work environment.

TOPICS:

Burnout, Tiredness, Guilt, Self-Care, Hyper-Productivity Culture, Personal Journey, Mental Health Support, Systemic Problems, Workplace, Community

KEY FIGURES:

Liam Degeorgio, AMFT

Sarah Barukh, ACSW

Kindman & Co.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Burnout is systemic, not personal.

Burnout isn’t caused by individual weakness or poor coping—it’s driven by structural issues like workload expectations, productivity metrics, and organizational priorities.

2. Isolation makes burnout worse.

When workplaces discourage connection or leave no energy for relationships, people are more likely to internalize blame and feel alone in their struggle.

3. Work culture trains us to ignore our own needs.

When energy reserves are empty, reaching out to friends, returning calls, or engaging in meaningful connection can feel overwhelming—often accompanied by guilt for wanting what you can’t access.

4. Self-care advice often shifts responsibility away from broken systems.

Productivity hacks and “fix yourself” solutions place the burden back on individuals instead of addressing the workplace conditions causing burnout.

5. Technology keeps people psychologically on the clock.

Constant accessibility through phones and email erodes real downtime, making recovery from work stress increasingly difficult.

6. Connection and collective action are powerful antidotes to burnout.

Community—whether through coworkers, shared experiences, or organized action—helps reduce self-blame and creates pathways for meaningful change.

KEY QUOTES:
1. “Burnout is a system problem, not a you problem.” — Sarah

2. “There’s nothing more nihilistic than reducing life to something that needs to be optimized.” — Liam

3. “If these corporations are treating us like machines, then we see ourselves as machines” — Sarah

4. “I realized now, I mean, it is structural. The expectations of the company are not about helping people heal. It’s a numbers game.” — Sarah

5. “Nothing has an intrinsic meaning, and that encourages us to ask: whose values are these that I’m living by?” — Liam

CALL TO ACTION:

Today's episode is bringing you to the book, “Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle” by Emily Nagoski, PhD and Amelia Nagoski DMA. In this book they talk about what you can do to complete the biological stress cycle—and return your body to a state of relaxation, how to manage the “monitor” in your brain that regulates the emotion of frustration, and much more.

Interested in learning more about the Kaiser Permanente mental health workers that Sarah was talking about? Check out this article.
Look out for the transcript of this episode on the Kindman & Co. blog and sign up for the Kindman & Co. newsletter to stay connected.