Joe, Thom, and Patrick talk Marcus Aurelius, read a daily reflection from Joe’s “Beyond Belief,” and consider the uncomfortable necessity of staying in the center of the herd. We also talk about making a difference and keeping the candle of hope burning during our particularly brutal and unjust time.

Joe’s “Beyond Belief” book:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-reflection-nonbelievers-freethinkers/dp/0988115700

See last week guest Michael Harney’s play, “Danny Boy” still showing in Los Angeles:

https://www.onstage411.com/newsite/show/play_info.asp?show_id=7432

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Actor, writer and director Michael J. Harney (NYPD Blue, Deadwood, True Detective) joins Thom and Allen to talk about his evolving spirituality and journey to recovery, his experience directing his new play “Danny Boy,” his friendship with the legendary David Milch, and how emotional sobriety has shown up for him over the years in his relationships with others and his Muse.

See Michael’s play, “Danny Boy” now showing in Los Angeles:

https://www.onstage411.com/newsite/show/play_info.asp?show_id=7432

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Joe C. joins Allen and Patrick to introduce what will be a series of episodes discussing how emotional sobriety can improve our sexual relationships, building genuine intimacy with partners. Finding ways to connect authentically, standing for ourselves without erasing our partners, and showing up for our partners without erasing ourselves.

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Joe’s “Beyond Belief” book:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-reflection-nonbelievers-freethinkers/dp/0988115700

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Clinical trauma specialist and author of Trauma and the 12 Steps Jamie+ Marich, Ph.D., LPCC-S, REAT joins Allen and Thom this week to talk about her body of work, field of study and pursuit of emotional sobriety. We pay special attention to the trauma surrounding loss, since all trauma work involves grief work.

Learn more about Dr. Marich:

www.redefinetherapy.com

www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com

www.jamiemarich.com

Virtual book tours: www.redefinetherapy.com

Instagram: drjamiem

TikTok: traumatherapistrants

Now available for pre-order: Queering EMDR Therapy (September 2025)

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Joe’s “Beyond Belief” book:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-reflection-nonbelievers-freethinkers/dp/0988115700

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Thom, Joe, and Patrick read from the Beyond Belief daily reflections about where emotional sobriety can come in when we’re struggling to tolerate opposing beliefs and challenging personalities. Emotional sobriety requires not only respect for ourselves, but respect for others.

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Joe’s “Beyond Belief” book:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-reflection-nonbelievers-freethinkers/dp/0988115700

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Joe Chisholm returns to discuss helping others through suggestion, not “expertise.” Emotional sobriety can help us escape a “victim mentality” we must shed to become the best version of ourselves. We use the term “victim” delicately, taking into account genuine sufferers of abuse and victimization. Whether one hour or twenty years sober, we’re all engaging with the same work and the same pursuit of emotional freedom.

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Joe’s “Beyond Belief” book:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-reflection-nonbelievers-freethinkers/dp/0988115700

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Thom and Allen discuss pursuing emotional sobriety once we become aware of our “unconscious incompetence.” In practicing anything until it becomes innate and automatic, the path begins (as so much of what we do), in acceptance. We return to the serenity prayer.

Patrick’s “Outside Issues” podcast, about the intersection of recovery and social justice:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Having recently celebrated 40 years of continuous sobriety, Bill Cleveland, a pillar in a multitude of recovery fellowships (namely Hermosa Beach Men’s Stag) discusses with Allen alcoholism as an analogue for emotional immaturity, AA as something we “get” to do rather than something we “have” to do, “second first steps,” the importance of amends and working with others.

If you’re in recovery or mental health spaces and interested in politics and social justice, Patrick has a new weekly podcast about the intersection of just those things!

“Outside Issues” with Audrey and Patrick:

https://www.youtube.com/@outsideissuespodcast

https://pod.link/1826305552

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.