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Tricia Ford: Hello, everyone. This is Audible Editor Tricia Ford, and with me is Margarita Montimore, author of Oona Out of Order, one of my favorite listens of 2020. We're here today to talk about her latest novel, Acts of Violet. It's a story of a magician named Violet Volk, whose 2008 onstage disappearance has been an unsolved mystery for almost 10 years. Welcome, Margarita. Thank you so much for being here.
Margarita Montimore: Thank you so much for having me. This is such a pleasure.
TF: Right off the bat, Acts of Violet seems like it was made for audio. It's amazingly well done in audio, but I had to think it also had its challenges for audio. Were you thinking about the audio as you were writing it? And what were your biggest challenges?
MM: It's funny, as much as I love podcasts, and over the last several months have become thoroughly addicted to audiobooks as well, I didn't think so much about “What is this audiobook going to sound like and what are going to be the components of it?” Honestly, I may have had one or two passing thoughts as I was writing and I was like, “Wow, if I could create that same feeling that I get when I'm listening to a really, really great podcast, but in book form.” And it seemed almost an afterthought. Once or twice, I thought to myself, “Actually, this would be really fun as an audiobook, too, because if I pull it off as text, then once it's performed as an audiobook, then you have, like, the best of both worlds.”
When the producer reached out to me, I said, “Well, it would be great if we could have a couple of different actors, to cover the different characters.” And they ended up putting together just this cast and such a production. Every little idea that I had, like, “Oh, it would be so great if maybe there could be some little musical interlude to introduce the podcast episodes.” They created a theme song and they just have all these wonderful sound cues, and the voice actors are just wonderful.
I was very fortunate to be involved in the process of being sent audition recordings and being able to give some input on, you know, “Well, actually Violet's voice is a little bit huskier, or this character's voice, if it could sound a little bit less like this, more like that.” I'm savoring the audiobook right now. My husband and I, we listen to bits of it over our morning coffee. And I was saying the other day, I can't even believe I wrote this. I'm listening to it the way that I would listen to an audiobook or a podcast. It's so nice to be able to just listen to it and enjoy it instead of kind of cringing. And that's really a testament to the wonderful job that Macmillan Audio did with the book. They made me look really good with it.
TF: Well, I think it goes both ways. I think you gave them some great source material, but it was such a fun listen. I know Brittany Pressley leads the cast. She is our main voice, the non-podcast-type voice. And she also narrated Oona Out of Order.
MM: I love the job that Brittany did with Oona Out of Order. So, one of the first things that I said was, "If we can get Brittany, she brings such a heart to everything that she narrates." And the characters, not only does she bring them to life, but even when they're behaving in ways that maybe aren't very sympathetic, she still wins you over and makes you still kind of root for the characters or stay with the characters, which is, I think, a very special talent.
TF: I think a part of it is the character you wrote. And it's interesting to hear how her performance enhanced that. That even the less likable things about someone's personality [are] still something that you kind of get attached to them about. That's very true about Sasha. Brittany makes a perfect Sasha, and I'm glad that she's a match to your voice as a writer.
MM: It was nice after Oona to find out that she has her own following of audiobook listeners that seek out books that she's narrated. And she's definitely become one of mine. As I became more and more interested in audiobooks and listened to more, I found, "Oh, okay, I love this narrator." And I can see now why people follow Brittany and seek out the books that she's narrated.
TF: She's a gem. Now, the other parts of the audio that make this unique, you have this great narrative single voice and then you get surprised by these podcasts. I think you already mentioned you are a podcast listener. What about that style of storytelling are you drawn to?
MM: Well, I'm often doing more than one thing at once. I always have my hands busy with something, whether it's a craft project, knitting, crocheting, whether it's playing a game on my phone or computer. I just feel like when I'm listening to something, I am able to be more engrossed in it in an audio form. I just find that my attention latches on to podcasts and audiobooks. Once I discovered podcasts, it's a gateway drug. You find one that you really like and it opens the door for so many different, "Oh, you like this genre, you like this style, you like true crime. Oh, well, clear the next couple of years because you're gonna have a lot to listen to."
I don't do things halfway. If I get really invested in something, I get very passionate about it. I've been a podcast listener for years and years, and there is something, when it's done well. Within true crime, I'm very interested in unsolved disappearances or unresolved mysteries, whether they're disappearances, murders. And just the way that, bit by bit, the story unfolds. It's such masterful storytelling. How many hours have I spent going down rabbit holes of certain cases that I find so fascinating that not one single show or podcast covers, but they all covered different details.
"I've been a podcast listener for years and years... within true crime, I'm very interested in unsolved disappearances or unresolved mysteries."
So, I thought it would be really interesting to kind of think about, "Okay, this is a passion of mine. This is an interest of mine. How can I put this in book form that is not a straight-up thriller?" I don't write thrillers. I don't write a single genre of anything. I like to flirt between genres and just play around. So, how can I take all the elements that I love of podcasts, and especially the unsolved-type stories, and put a different spin on it and also incorporate other elements that I find interesting? Tell a family story, tell a story about fame and the perils of celebrity, a story about feminism, being a leader in your field that happens to be male-dominated. It was really fun for me to kind of play around with the different elements and almost like putting together, like the trailer says, Violet Volk was a puzzle. So, I felt like I wrote this book kind of one piece at a time, creating this puzzle.
TF: I love that aspect of it because you get the slow reveal and lots of different books, but the different sources here are just so clear. You feel like you get an oddly complete picture of this woman.
MM: I thought of my high school art teacher telling us about negative space and using negative space to create an image. There are a couple of interviews that are in Violet's voice and a little bit of correspondence, but for the most part, the entire portrait that's painted of Violet is through the way that other people perceive her and the experiences they've had with her.
And that was very intentional, in part to create the mystique surrounding her. And, also, just to show how contradictory and complex and just unknowable she is. But in a way, aren't we all? Like, we don't have to be a celebrity or a well-known figure. I would say that any one of us probably would have a similar kind of portrait painted of us where we show different sides of ourselves to different people.
TF: I do love that. And just speaking of your influences, very early on in the story comes up—and it is brought up again throughout the story—these real women magicians from the past, which is something I was not familiar with. Are these new discoveries for you? Or women that you've known about and just needed to use as your inspiration for this book?
MM: They are absolutely new discoveries for me. I didn't set out to elevate the voices of magicians who are women and the history of women in magic, but I hope that it does have a positive effect, that it brings awareness. Because when I was creating the concept for the story, I thought about, "Okay, so let's say we have somebody disappear. What kind of figure could it be?" I toyed around; a musician, actor. I'm drawn to creative types. And when I came upon magician, I thought, "Oh, my gosh, a disappearing act, that's so perfect. How did it take me longer than two seconds [laughs] to come up with that?"
And then began all of the research, because I didn't know much about the history of magic. I've always been just more of a connoisseur casually. I've enjoyed great magic shows that I've seen. As a kid, I would watch David Copperfield specials with my jaw on the floor. And as I started to do some general research, the first question for me was "Where are the women?" So, I read some books about the history of magic and then current-day magic. Then I started listening to podcasts, of course, which were a great source of research. I came across this wonderful podcast called Shezam!, which was created by two women who are professional magicians. And the entire podcast was dedicated to what it's like for women in this field. And it was peppered with history and figuring out, like, how is it that in this day and age there's a creative field that is dominated by men 92 percent? It seems so hard to wrap your brain around.
"I didn't set out to elevate the voices of magicians who are women and the history of women in magic, but I hope that it does have a positive effect, that it brings awareness."
So, I thought, "Well, now that I've come up with this field, I'm going to do whatever I can to celebrate these women." Once I started doing the research—Adelaide Herrmann, I feel, should be just as well-known as Harry Houdini. She was known as the “Queen of Magic.” She should be one of the top, top magicians we think of when we think of the history of magic. So, hopefully there will be some women who are known a lot more for their wonderful contributions to magic after this book.
TF: I agree. Now, there is mention [in the book] of a Women of Magic Museum. Is that a real place or something that has yet to be created?
MM: It's not a real place. I wish it was a real place because I would certainly love to go. What made me think of it was in trying to figure out, “Why is it that certain magicians have this legacy, Houdini being a prime example, and why didn't Adelaide Herrmann?” And part of the reason was that a fire in a warehouse destroyed all her props, her entire act. Whereas Houdini, he had somebody in his family continue his legacy and donate his costumes and props to museums and keep that name going. And Adelaide Herrmann, unfortunately, wasn't in such a position. So, there aren't as many traces of her.
But I think that it would be lovely to have a magic museum that doesn't give [women] one little room of the museum. Let's really showcase them.
TF: I feel like New Orleans might be the place for it.
MM: New Orleans would be a wonderful spot for it. Yes. Perfect. It is such a magical city.
TF: Speaking of women, the real heart of the story is the sister relationship between Violet and Sasha. As a fiction lover, strong relationships and characters are what really get me going. I love all the added texture that is in the story, but this is where my heart is. So, I just want you to talk a little bit about that relationship.Do you identify with one more than the other?
MM: I will confess that I'm an only child. I don't actually have a sister. There was this song by Juliana Hatfield called “My Sister,” and it was this whole kind of like, “I love my sister. I hate my sister.” So, it was railing against her but also just creating this dynamic. I thought it was such a great story within a song. And when I found out that she doesn't have a sister, it was such a head-explode moment for my high school self. And I think that a little bit of shrapnel kind of got buried in me.
Growing up, I wished I had a sister and I thought, "Oh, my goodness, you'd have a built-in best friend.” And then the older I got and the more I saw the complicated sibling relationships around me of my friends and loved ones and even my mother, it made me realize that, "Well, you know what, I have a pretty [laughs] strong personality and I maybe wouldn't be best friends." I would guarantee that the relationship would be far more complicated than that.
So, I started to think about, “What is an interesting but realistic kind of sibling dynamic, where it's not one thing, because that's not real life.” You don't just blindly get along 100 percent of the time, and also that's so boring. Who wants to read about that? And you're not mortal enemies 100 percent of the time. I really worked to kind of create the nuance of “What does this relationship look like?”
Violet is like a cautionary tale of when I was much, much younger and like, "Oh, it would be so cool to be famous for doing something awesome in my career, being a rock star, a movie star, writer, whatever.” But knowing the reality of what that kind of life actually entails, the alienation of it, the exhaustion of it, and also the type of personality. Sometimes it takes that ambition, the ruthlessness, the ability to kind of be very single-minded in your goal. I don't have that kind of single-minded drive. So, I think being able to have a more balanced life of enjoying the successes that come your way without letting them consume you the way that Violet does.
TF: I do love their relationship. It's what propels the story for me. Now, I've been reading many reviews, just to get an idea of what people are saying. First, I was very impressed by the number of people who have gotten early listens of the story, and the audio's really out there and being really well received, which is beautiful. I love that. And one of the things I read was someone called this “the escapist vacation book choice of the summer.”
MM: Thank you, mom. I'm kidding. She doesn't even have email, so it can't be her, but that's incredible. Thank you, whoever wrote that.
TF: Escapist is just the perfect word for this because it's a lot of fun. It has that almost interactive feel that you get as a podcast listener.
MM: Yeah. I wanted something that was going to be immersive, because I wrote this book during lockdown, the second year, when it was like, “Okay, even for the most homebody introverts, now it's becoming a lot more challenging.” And one of the things that surprised me was Oona Out of Order came out right before lockdown. I mean, literally a couple days after my last launch event is when all the lockdowns started. This is a book that I was able to just kind of get away from everything that was happening around me and just get lost in it and just have a happy escape. It surprised me because, normally, growing up, when I was writing I was far darker and more kind of angsty with the type of material that I was writing. I don't know if I'm mellowing in my old age [laughs], but something about that really resonated with me as I was thinking about what am I gonna write next and what kind of story do I want to get lost in as I'm creating it.
I certainly didn't want to surround myself with more darkness. And that's why it was a challenge taking something like a missing-person case. And how do I take that and take the genuine emotions that come with that, the grief and the uncertainty and the frustration, but also kind of imbue it with something that is more beautiful and more hopeful. I remember just sitting there thinking, "Okay, what do we need right now? What do I need?" And I just thought, "Everybody could use a little bit more magic in their life." That was the word, and I thought, "Okay, so I'm going to obviously take this as literally as possible.” [Laughs]
But I thought about when you watch a really great magic trick. It's not everybody's form of entertainment, I understand that. But it is almost like those unsolved cases in that there's something that pulls you in, that intrigues you and you're left with this uncertainty of, "Wait, what just happened?" Like, you don't really know what happened, but the ambiguity and the sense of awe and confusion that it creates, I was like, "How can I do that in book form, but not frustrate my readers so much?” Certainly not reveal all of my tricks, but find that right balance where they can feel that sense of awe and wonder, hopefully. And at the same time still leave with some kind of question marks and be puzzling about certain aspects as well.
TF: I love that. I do think that magic part is a perfect kind of remedy to our lockdown. And I think we're all still recovering as we emerge. But also what makes it a summer listen, it doesn't have to be like super happy, joyful, or super light, but it has to be entertaining. And this is very entertaining, along with being a great story.
MM: I never set out to write the perfect beach read or the perfect this or that read. It's more of, “I want to get lost in this.” I want to create something that readers can get lost in and enjoy and just be purely entertained by. But then if they want to go deeper, that subtext is also there for them. However you want to enjoy the story is up to you.
TF: I agree. And you do get to kind of solve the mystery as you go along. So, depending how long it takes you. It's interactive listening. It's wonderful. So, what is on your summer reading list or listening list?
MM: Oh, my goodness. I have so many that are upcoming. I do like a good thriller over the summer. I find that's when I read the most thrillers. I listened to the audiobook of Alice Feeney's first one, Sometimes I Lie. Once I kind of latch onto a writer, I'm very much a completist and I go through their catalog. Liane Moriarty, I think, is another author that plays with genre. It's not one thing.She writes a mix of different genres. Oh, one of my favorite books that almost nobody has heard of is called The Raw Shark Texts by Steven Hall. And his second book came out a couple months ago.
I like authors that are just a little bit removed from this reality. It's been called slipstream fiction or slightly surreal fiction. Just stories that have a speculative edge. I just have so many audiobooks on my to-listen list that it astonishes me that I still have so many [laughs] I haven't listened to. I'm looking forward to making more headway with those.
A book I'm enjoying very much right now is called Bloomsbury Girls by Natalie Jenner. It's set in a bookstore in the early ‘50s. And Daphne Du Maurier actually makes an appearance in the book. And Rebecca is one of my favorite novels. So, I am determined, because I am not as well versed in the more classic authors as I'd like to be. This book has been a nice little reminder for like, "You need to read more of her books." And so that's on my summer to-do list, read at least one or two more Daphne Du Maurier’s.
TF: Oh, that's a good one. They're good in audio too. So, what are you working on now? What can we expect from you in the near future, hopefully?
MM: That's a good question. Right now, I am in the tinkering phase, going down rabbit holes, filling the well, as it's been referred to. Between Oona and Violet, I started and wrote parts of, I think, seven different novels, and it kind of worried me, like, "Oh, my goodness, I'm exploring so many different story avenues. I need to commit to something." This time around, I'm sort of doing the same thing, including picking up threads from some of those other stories and seeing, "Oh, is this the time to develop this story?" As they call them, “chasing other plot bunnies.” But instead of letting that worry me and making me kind of panic about, "Oh, my gosh, I'm not gonna finish anything. I'm just starting and I'll hit a wall," I'm enjoying the process. And I'm just treating it as, "You know what, a lot of ideas, that is a good problem to have." It's better than thinking, "I have nothing to write about. I have nothing to develop."
I find myself drawn to music. I've been listening to more music. I've actually been tinkering with a family friend. He creates electronic music and I've learned GarageBand and wrote lyrics and vocal tracks on a couple of songs. And then there are rabbit holes that I've been going down and wondering, "Okay, there's a reason for this. This will all somehow connect and maybe the next story that I write is going to kind of have a music influence in one way or another." I feel like it's on the threshold of the next story that I get really, really immersed and lost in. I'm excited to just dive in.
TF: That's exciting. And in your rabbit holes, do you ever revisit existing characters?
MM: Oh, yes. A lot of people have asked me about a possible sequel to Oona Out of Order. Her story is not over. I absolutely could write a second book. I still don't feel that it's the time for it yet, but I have been toying with maybe an Oona-adjacent story or something that kind of touches on the Oona-verse somehow.
And all of my novels contain characters that are in other novels. There is a very, very vague reference, not by name, but to Oona in Acts of Violet. And one of the characters in Acts of Violet is actually a character in my first self-published book, Asleep from Day. So, I love creating this world where it's a web, because I love seeing other writers do that. It's such a treat to recognize those little Easter eggs. I definitely do that. And I think about other stories like, "Okay, this is a little thread that I left in this book. Is it something that I can tug on and create something new and develop into another story?"
"All of my novels contain characters that are in other novels... It's such a treat to recognize those little Easter eggs."
TF: I like that idea, just because I like reentering those worlds again or getting something new but familiar.
MM: Yes.
TF: So, I'll give you time to let your creative juices flow [laughs], but I'll be watching. Before we go, is there anything else you wanted to share with listeners?
MM: Hey, women out there, take up magic. Try magic. There should be more of you that are pursuing this. Let's get out there. When I was a kid, I tried every hobby under the sun, including magic, and I have the worst hand-eye coordination, so I was terrible at it. But I feel like women bring just, as they would to anything, a different perspective, a different style of performing. I would love to see it developed.
TF: Thanks everyone for listening, and thank you, thank you for joining me today, Margarita.
MM: Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure. I love talking books. I am just a superfan of audiobooks. So this is a real treat for me.
TF: Me too. Thank you so much. And everyone listening, you can purchase, download, and listen to Acts of Violet right now on Audible.com.
