This anthology of Black love stories set at HBCUs shows the importance of legacy and “finding yourself” | Audible.com
This anthology of Black love stories set at HBCUs shows the importance of legacy and “finding yourself”
“You've Got a Place Here, Too,” edited by Ebony LaDelle, gathers an esteemed group of authors—such as Kennedy Ryan, Nicola Yoon, and Kiese Laymon—to celebrate the Black college experience.
Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.
Margaret Hargrove: Hi, listeners. I'm Audible editor, Margaret Hargrove, and I'm thrilled to be here today with Ebony LaDelle, the author of two YA romances, and , and now the editor of an anthology of romance stories all set at Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Hi, Ebony, and welcome to Audible.
Ebony LaDelle: Hi, Margaret. How are you today?
MH: Cool. Great. Thanks for being here, Ebony. For those that don't know, prior to becoming an author, you worked in book publishing. Can you talk about that transition? Has anything surprised you now being on the other side of the business?
EL: Yeah. So, I worked in book publishing for about, I'd say 10 to 12 years. I started at Simon & Schuster. So, it's kind of funny that that's a place that also publishes my work. A lot of firsts with that publisher in particular. And, yeah, I was primarily in marketing. I started in school library marketing, which was, honestly, a position I didn't necessarily think about at first. And then, when I got into the position, I loved it and recognized its value for so many reasons. And then I transitioned over into trade marketing. So, yeah, it was a really great experience. I worked with so many amazing authors. I got to be the marketer for , for , for , for , for just so many incredible authors. And if I wasn't, you know, their direct marketer, I was working with the team.
I had a team under me, and they were marketing so many books that I had a hand in, like, just helping them shape their plans and all those things. So, a great experience. I got to read a lot of work, which I would say helped me be confident to transition over into writing my own stories because I was seeing so many works from authors who look like me who had similar experiences. And that's when I realized like, "Okay, Ebony, you can do this too. There's no more excuses for why you can't do the thing." From there, I would write. It was during COVID when I wrote Love Radio. So, I would get up early, and I would write the book. And then I would, you know, log onto my computer and start my workday.
And once the book was slated to publish, I had transitioned over to PRH, and I was working as a brand marketing director for the Obamas. And that was a great experience. But I realized that, between me wanting to have a moment to just celebrate the work that I was putting out—and, also, there were some family things that were coming up that needed my attention—it just felt like a really good time to sort of step away from the industry and to focus on my writing career. So, that's what I did, and that's what I'm doing. I say it's a sabbatical that I keep extending—so doesn't necessarily mean it's forever. I might go back into the game, but it has been a really great time to learn about just being an author in the moment.
MH: So, Love Radio was your debut, which came out in 2022, and This Could Be Forever came out earlier this year. But I'm curious: What inspired you to curate and edit an anthology of romance stories set at HBCUs?
EL: I've always wanted to do some sort of Howard-related story, just because I graduated from there. I really love the HBCU experience. I think that there are so many different types of HBCU experiences that I think are important and should be documented. For me, my experience was, you know, the shy girl who was the reader who sort of found her group of people within my niche, like, “blerdish" community. I just didn't feel like it made sense for me to write a full story. And other people could disagree, but for me, personally, that's what I felt like. I felt like there is so much more to just, you know, going to one HBCU. I think the experience of HBCUs in general are so vast and important.
And it made me think about, like, even family members. I have a cousin who I was trying to convince him to go to HBCU. He's from the South, and I'm like, "You should go to Howard." And he's like, "Uh, it's too city for me." And I'm like, "You're right. You know what I mean? It is too city for you, so maybe you should try JSU or maybe you should try..." You know, just talking to him about just different schools.
So, I think I thought a lot about that when I was sort of coming up with this concept: There's literally something here for everybody. And I think that is what really helped me to just be like, "You know what, Ebony? Then why not highlight multiple HBCUs, and you can just have a story within this whole universe." And yeah, that's how the idea came to be. I was really me just coming up with concepts and figuring out schools and all that jazz and pitching it.
MH: I'm curious, where did the title, You've Got a Place Here, Too, come from?
EL: So, it comes from . It's the last line at the end of the poem, and it's just such an incredible piece of work. I mean, Nikki, God rest her soul, is a great poet, and also went to an HBCU. I just love the ways in which that poem felt like home in a lot of ways.
And that's what it felt like. I remember the first time I went on Howard's campus; it was before I even went there, and it was through a teacher who was forcing me. She's actually in the dedication. She was, like, really pushing me: "You need to go to an HBCU." And I'm like, "Okay, girl [laughs]." I'm just like, "I don't know. Why do you keep pushing this on me, Ms. Spicer?" But she was relentless, and she put me in touch with someone that put me in touch with someone.
Long story short, these people really gave me a lot of great information. They welcomed me into my home. I went to Howard. I went on campus, and it was like a homecoming. And it was just me walking onto the campus—not even doing any of the activities—and being like, "Ugh, this is it. This is where I need to be." So that's what that poem felt like. It felt like the same thing that I felt when I stepped on the campus.
"I think that just being on Howard's campus and being at a HBCU really allowed me to be Ebony first, not the 'Black girl'..."
MH: Hmm. You talk about this a bit in your introduction, but can you tell us what did attending Howard mean to you?
EL: You know, Howard was really great. I think Howard really helped me. Like, it was the beginning of me really coming out of my shell. And I can't say that Howard was the thing that, like, pushed me on the deep end. I think working and publishing and then becoming an author really helped me in that way as well. But it really put a lot of seeds in me. Like, at Howard, I had a work-study job at the bookstore. That was the way I had to pay for school.
So, I was really busy between school and working there. But also, like, that bookstore, working in that marketing department, I found a lot of found family, in a way. My boss became a mentor. It was my first opportunity to be creative. And be creative in the book space in ways where she was not only supportive, but she pushed me to do more, you know? I was able to, like, completely revamp the Howard University bookstore circular, and that was really cool, and have model calls and really create a community around the bookstore and what we were doing in certain ways. And I think it just really helped me to trust my creative ideas, which really then helped me to put that into the work that I did in book publishing. So that, I would say, is the biggest thing. Also just being confident in speaking about things or writing about things that matter to me, whether or not I was comfortable actually saying that I was a writer. I think Howard really sparked the idea of, like, you could talk about your rawest, realest self, because I saw so many other writers and poets from things that I would go to and organizations that would put on events that I would participate in and all of those things. And I think that just being on Howard's campus and being at a HBCU really allowed me to be Ebony first, not the "Black girl," not this, not that, you know, all these labels that society puts on us the moment we walk into a room. It's more of like, "Okay, I am a student attending a university, and I am finding my little niche community within this large community of Black people." And being able to see different types of Blackness around me and how people were able to really express the truest form of themselves was really amazing.
MH: It feels like HBCUs are having a moment. I mean, a few years ago, Beyoncé paid homage to HBCs during her Coachella or “Beycella” performance. There's a reboot of A Different World coming soon. We also had the recent adaptation of Judy Blume's Forever on Netflix, where the female lead, Keisha, had her sights set on attending Howard, which is your alma mater.
EL: Mm-hmm.
MH: It feels like there's never been a better time to go to an HBCU or be an alum of one. Would you agree?
EL: Yeah. I mean, I think, we could say HBCUs are having a moment. I think they were always the moment. Like, they were always the moment. You know, HBCUs were incredibly important. The reasons in which they were started was because we didn't have access to education, right? And so, these HBCUs were created so that Black people could be able to be educated. I think that, for so many years, when people go to PWIs, and they experience so much racism on campus, it's why you hear certain family members be like, "Well, should've went to an HBCU." You know? Like, you just hear certain things or experience certain things that make you realize the beauty of them.
And, you know, they're not without their issues. I have to say that it's really important to say that because, you know, there are some HBCUs currently that are in the news for certain things. But I think the beauty of it is that, you know, the alums, the students, specifically the students, really hold the school accountable, always, in ways that I think are incredibly important. Even when we talk about , she was kicked out of Fisk and then reinstated back, you know? And it is because she was fighting the good fight of being a queer person at that school, of being a woman at that school.
MH: Mm-hmm.
EL: And so, I think those things are what makes them so great; is that we can communicate our issues within the school. We can stand up for ourselves. It really teaches us that. And yeah, there's so many life lessons. There's so many ways in which you can feel the most like yourself within the campus. So yeah, I always highly recommend them and also highly recommend them, knowing, saying sort of like I said in the introduction: It's not a utopia, but it is what you make of it. There’s a lot of beauty and there's a lot of toughness, but that's no different than any other school. So, it's really about what is most important to you as you're trying to move through this world. What are the things that are most important? And, and then it helps you decide, like, if you want to go to an HBCU and if so, what HBCU you would want to go to.
MH: Mm-hmm. Right. Because they're not all the same, like you pointed out.
EL: Not at all.
MH: So You've Got a Place Here, Too features stories from a really great, esteemed group of authors: , , , , , and one from you as well.
EL: Mm-hmm
MH: Several of the stories are written by authors who attended HBCUs. How did you go about recruiting authors to participate in the anthology?
EL: So, this was actually really, really fun. What I tried to do was sort of look at where the HBCUs were across the country. And even in Nicola's story, which is set in the University of the Virgin Islands, because I wanted to, again, show that there is something for everybody. There's a variety of HBCUs to choose from. And then, from there, I also started to research, like, some of the themes within the HBCUs, like maybe important facts about the school or things about the history that I think are very compelling to include in the anthology.
And so, from there, I then started to sort of look to see, what authors did go to HBCUs? And so it was a combination of authors who went to HBCUs, authors who were just amazing at writing romance, and authors who may have specific ties to a theme within the story that I was looking to discuss. So like , for instance, she's a Delta, and so she wrote about Fisk. She didn't go to Fisk, but she also was, like, in the choir and the stories about the Jubilee singers.
MH: Mm-hmm.
EL: So, it was really cool because when I pitched the concept to her, then she did her due diligence. We got in touch with the director; she asked questions. And she was able to do really deep research into making the story be what it is. And it was beautiful. With people like Kiese and , Kiese went to JSU; Dawnie went to FAMU. That was very simple: It was me pitching them to just write about their alma mater. And so, yeah, it was a combination of all these things. Uh, Farrah is another example, she went to Xavier. And also, I wanted to have sort of like a Mardi Gras experience, and so she was down to do that. And so, yeah, it was really figuring out, again, the places that I wanted to showcase and the type of story. And from there, I let them go.
A lot of them wrote the story that I asked. Some of them went in totally different directions, which all the things were great. But yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was really fun pitching them. And so, even with Kennedy, that I was able to listen to, and I was like, "Oh my God, this is so amazing! Like, there's so much more that could be told within this universe." And so it was really cool even pitching to her a concept for the story that she chose to write.
MH: I know, I feel like there's a story for everyone. There's Black, gay love, lesbian love, enemies-to-lovers, forbidden love, friends to lovers. And you touched on Kennedy's story. Yes, I loved “Brave the Skies.” I mean, Kennedy knows how to write romance.
EL: She really does.
MH: I was, like, literally fanning myself. I was like, "Not the professor."
EL: I know. I know. And that's the thing. So I didn't pitch that to her. I basically was like, "I would love for you to, like, do a story in this universe," and let her go. And I remember when I read it, I was like, "Oh, she is..." [laughs]. She brought the spice. She did what needed to be done. Um, so yeah, that's what I love about her writing. She always brings it. And I did want a little bit of that, too—even the level of spice within each story—I wanted it to be some a little, you know, a little hotter than others. But, you know, finding that line because, you know, it is a college story, but also, um, it is a college story [laughs]. You know, so how do you strike that balance?
MH: Yeah. There's also “Romantic Studies,” which is the Nicola Yoon. And I thought the format was so cool and unique. It's written like a college syllabus. And as I was reading, I was like, "Oh, that's really cool." And I thought , who performed it, she did like an A++ job on that. It was really clever.
EL: Ugh, I love her so much. Yeah. It was, again, totally not what I expected. And I remember when I got it, I was like, "Oh, I don't even know..." Because I was working with my then-editor at the time, Chelsea—she went to a different imprint. But at the time, we were communicating about certain notes, and I was like, "I don't know how to edit this," [laughs]. And she was like, "I got it." And it just, it turned out so beautifully how the whole story came out, and it's been one of the fan favorites—which has been really great.
MH: Cool. So you have Bahni Turpin, but you also have an amazing all-star cast of narrators. I mean, it's really a who's who list. , , , . So many more. How did the casting come together?
EL: Yeah. Shout out to Random House's audio department because, when they came to me, they really were like, "We want this to be a really full experience, so we want you to choose an audiobook narrator for each story." And I'm like, "Wow." Like, I didn't even know that that was going to be a thing. So I was super excited. And so they told me that I could pick who I wanted for the story. And what I ended up doing is, I reached out to each contributor. And so, and I gave them the list and was like, "Who do you envision reading this story?"
And, you know, Random House, they had really great notes in terms of the pitching. Like, you can tell that they really did their due diligence and was like, you know, "This person has, you know, an accent from Oklahoma, this person hasthis, this person..." So it was really helpful for us, as writers, to choose the audiobook narrators. And I feel, like, everybody chose, you know, for the most part, different ones. And so, it just really feels like a super-immersive experience. So yeah, I love that there are so many great audiobook narrators. I am super honored. I was excited in itself to have all these writers be a part of it, but to also have this cast of narrators is just really incredible.
MH: And you're a narrator, too!
EL: I am. I am [laughs].
MH: And I saw that you posted that this was your first time recording.
EL: Yeah.
MH: What was that like?
EL: Yeah, so the joke is, I used to say, "You'll never find me, like, recording an audiobook, being an audiobook narrator." Just because I'm just not that person. It's kind of the same as slam poets. It's like, I deeply respect what they do, and I deeply feel like it's not for me [laughs]. Like, I am the person who loves to listen to it. I'm not the person who necessarily wants to be on stage performing. And I think I was thinking of it in lines of, you know, I write fiction, so I don't see myself doing the audiobook for any of my fiction work. But when they came to me and said, you know, "We'd love for you to read the introduction," I was like, "Oh, that makes sense."
So, it was nice to be able to read it because it just felt like I was literally talking to my readers about, you know, the concept behind the anthology, and it felt very intimate. And the studio was incredible. I told them that I was a baby at this, and so they walked me through it. One of my good friends was there, too. So, it actually wasn't as scary as I thought it was going to be. It was just nice being in the booth, you know? It was nice to be able to just, like, learn about pace and have someone guide you on where you should really show emphasis and where you should show your excitement and all those things. So yeah, I'm glad that I have done it now. I am very happy to have done it now [laughs].
MH: Cool. You did a great job. It's great to have your voice on there.
EL: Thank you. Thank you so much.
MH: So, I have to tell you: I'm jealous because I did not get to go to an HBCU. So I'm living vicariously through these stories. Actually, my father forbade me—
EL: Oh, wow.
MH: ...from even applying. This was a different time. I won't age myself on this call [laughs], but I do have a rising seventh grader, and I'm already starting to plant the seeds with her, like, talking about Spelman, talking about Howard, trying to bump those up on her list. I mean, I feel like at the time, for my parents, there was this thought that you needed to go to a PWI to be successful.
EL: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
MH: We're talking, you know, ‘80s and early ‘90s babies. Like that was the—
EL: Mm-hmm. Same
MH: ...the message, but I feel almost the opposite. Like, when I look at my daughter, I'm like, "Wouldn't it be great for you to have four years where you're in a protected safe zone where, like you said, everyone looks like you. You don't have to explain your Blackness; you don't have to explain why your hair is the way it is because everyone understands that that's just the way it is? I think there would be such a comfort for her with that—
EL: Absolutely.
MH: ...that I really missed out on. So, with it being back to school season, what advice would you give someone who's preparing, you know, to step on the yard for the first time, their first year at an HBCU? Or, and I'm going to have my daughter listen to this—
EL: [Laughs].
MH: ...what would you say to anyone thinking about applying to an HBCU right now?
"I love that there are so many great audiobook narrators. I am super honored. I was excited in itself to have all these writers be a part of it, but to also have this cast of narrators is just really incredible."
EL: Hmm. That's a good question. So before I answer this question though, I have to say, Margaret, you are not the only one. My dad also felt the same way. Basically, what the situation was when I was in Michigan, and then for high school, I ended up moving to Vegas to live with my father. And so I went from a predominantly Black school to a predominantly white school. And I was struggling. And I think I was struggling so bad, that I didn't realize that at the time, but my teacher was like, "You need to basically go back to a predominantly Black environment because that's where you will thrive." And I remember being like, "Uh, you know, I don't know because my dad is, like, really not into it, and so I don't think I should do it."
But it became this thing where he went from feeling that way, to my younger sister went to Howard. You know? So it completely changed his whole perception once he went to the school, once he heard about what I was experiencing, once he saw for himself what the impact is. So, I would say for anybody who is considering, you know, applying to HBCU, here's my thing. I definitely think those four years after high school are so critical, right? You are literally becoming an adult for the first time. And so it's not just you attending school, it's you learning life lessons, life hacks, life things. You becoming your own person, being comfortable in your own body.
And I feel like, in particular, being able to blossom into yourself in an environment where, again, people look like you, again, where you are not necessarily being judged by, you know, the color of your skin. Where you're able to fully express yourself and people are not going to shun you, if anything, they'll, you know, applaud you for wearing your hair. I mean, it's so common now, but even the idea of wearing your hair natural of, like, you know, being able to just play around with different aspects of yourself that feel most comfortable for you, I feel like going to an HBCU is the best way to do that. So for me, I went to HBCU in undergrad, and then for grad school I went to a PWI.
And I think even the transition of, like, going from that to a PWI and going to the workforce, it also really helped me be very strong in my convictions and the things that were most important to speak up about in ways that I felt, like, some other people wouldn't have been able to say the thing. You know what I mean? So, especially being in publishing and being in a predominantly white industry, I had to really speak up for a lot of things that I think an HBCU helped me speak up about. And it's interesting, too, because I remember, you know, now looking back, I'm like, "Okay, Ebony, you spoke up more than you thought." But I even remember being in the day-to-day, there were some days where I'm like, "I ain't saying nothing about that," and it's pissing me off.
MH: [Laughs].
EL: You know, because it was just, you go to HBCU, and you were constantly having these discussions and these debates within the classroom. So yeah, that's what I would say. If you're really feeling like you are wanting to be in a place where you feel you can find yourself and creatively express yourself and learn about yourself, and also learn about the diaspora, an HBCU is where I was really able to learn more about the continent.Where I was really learning more about, like, African cultures and traditions and Caribbean cultures and traditions. And you're being immersed because the organizations will throw different parties and different things, so that you're able to experience all that. It was such a beautiful moment.
And I would say for people who are going to be going to HBCUs very soon, or they're moving in literally right now, my advice would be to savor the moment because it is going to be a blip in time where you are going to have this experience being around all these people that look like you; being around really great minds. And then you're going to go away. You know what I mean? You're going to graduate; you're going to go off to your jobs; you're going to go off and do your things. And you're not going to have that community. And so through the good and bad of it, really just appreciate and take in the moment, because you'll find that you'll miss being able to have that safe space, coming out of it.
MH: Cool. That's great advice. Thanks for that.
EL: Of course.
MH: What do you hope listeners take away from You've Got a Place Here, Too?
EL: One, I wanted to show just some of the important aspects, themes, again, of HBCUs—like the importance of legacy and of dreaming and of finding yourself. I think those are incredibly important, especially for Black people, especially at this time. I also wanted something documented on, you know, what these schools are, what they mean to us. I feel like romance was the best way because we're able to show romantic love, but also love of this place and what it's doing and how it's sort of creating these beautiful love stories. So, it was important for me to show them in the past and present.
I want people to take away—whether you went to an HBCU or not—there are these institutions that are created to really help us thrive in the best way possible. And we can find and create these little institutions in the communities within ourselves, right? I hope it inspires people—whether they went to an HBCU or not, to be like, "I want to create this sort of safe space within my own community. I want to create this safe space through a book club, or through this or through that." However that looks like for them, I want us to remember that because it is really hard, I think, to create community after you graduate from college, you know, and you're trying to get in the workforce or you're trying to move to a new city and you're trying to find people; you're trying to find your community.
So that's really what I hope people take away from it. And also just, I hope that they're able to appreciate a really amazing Black love story. In this anthology, we have multiple Black love stories that I think are really important to show. I think they really show the differences in Blackness within the stories in the same way it shows, like, the community at HBCU. And yeah, I would say those are the biggest things I hope readers take away from it.
MH: Cool. So, what's next for you? Any more YA romances coming soon?
EL: I'm in the funky stage of creating. Of beginning to create things that I hope will be out in the next year or two. It's really the ideation stage, so I don't want to talk too much about it because it's hard right now, but I am excited about things that have been percolating. So, I'm going to be continuing to write. You'll definitely see more from me.
MH: Cool. Well, we'll stay tuned. Ebony, thank you so much for being here today.
EL: Of course.
MH: Thank you for this beautiful collection of stories that celebrate Black love, Black joy, and Black excellence in all its many forms. Listeners, You've Got a Place Here, Too is available now on Audible. Thanks, Ebony.
