Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.

Nicole Ransome: Hi, I'm Audible Editor Nicole, and I'm super excited to welcome Mary Burton. Mary is a connoisseur at penning suspenseful, page-turning thrillers and bestsellers such as Cut and Run, the Texas Rangers series, Her Last Word, and more. She's here today to answer my burning questions about her newest thriller, What She Saw. Welcome, Mary.

Mary Burton: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

NR: It's great to have you. Your story What She Saw follows Sloane Grayson, who's a cold-case reporter and the daughter of Patty, a woman who went missing along with three other women at a music festival in the small town of Dawson in 1994. Listeners are taken between two periods, the 1994 festival and ensuing investigation, and the present day when Sloane has come to town to revisit the case. What drove you to splitting the story between these two periods?

MB: I love a dual storyline. I've done them before, and it's just, the past and the present are always interwoven, and what happened then is definitely going to change the events of today. In this case, something was missed in the past and it's now up to the present to pick up the ball and finish the case.

NR: Sloane is picking up where Dawson's former sheriff, CJ Taggart, left off before his death. When juxtaposing these two investigations, one in 1994 right after the murders, and Sloane's current-day investigation, what were the key differences you wanted to highlight, especially considering the different years, both characters’ relationships to the town, and of course, their relationship to the case?

MB: Both of them are new to town. Both of them are kind of outsiders. And with the past story, I was cognizant of the technology, because we think 30 years wasn't that long ago, but technology-wise it was huge. So, what Sheriff Taggart has to deal with and what Sloane has at her fingertips, she has more technology, but the case has gone cold. It's been 30 years, and evidence goes away and it's harder to solve. I was trying to compare their challenges. They're both a lot alike personality-wise, I think. They both brought challenges to the case that enabled each to solve their key part.

NR: What inspired the small-town setting of Dawson for the scene of Rafe Colton's crime? What elements do small towns add to a thriller that you may enjoy the most?

MB: Well, everybody knows everybody usually in a small town and so it's, I think, a little bit harder to get away with crimes. But secrets do have a tendency to get buried in small towns. I don't think that's any different than a big town. It was a beautiful mountain location. It was a place that the killer could set up his festival kind of knowing what he was going to do. He just saw that jurisdiction, I guess, as helpful for him because they don't have as many resources. They don't have as many police officers. He just saw that as an opportunity that this area would help him get away with whatever he thought he was going to do.

"She doesn't grieve for her mother like most people would, but she wants justice for her."

NR: And he is quite the charmer, so that lends itself to his capabilities.

MB: And you do see a lot of festivals, mountain music festivals, in that part of the world, especially in the fall. It's beautiful. It's a gorgeous part of the country. That's another thing I liked about it. Beautiful. Tranquil. And then it turns bad, it turns sideways for the victims.

NR: Yeah, you see how everyone's preparing for the festival and then when everything really starts to go wrong, and that disappointment in the town, definitely.

MB: It turns to chaos, and that's what happens because it wasn't well-planned. It wasn't well-thought-out, and the logistics and the crowds just got ahead of them.

NR: Sloane's desire to find out the truth regarding the disappearance of her mother and to crack this case isn't always well-received by the townspeople of Dawson, unsurprisingly. But it was nice to see that she had a friend with some benefits with Grant. What was the importance of exploring that relationship for Sloane's character development?

MB: Well, I see them as total opposites, and he also wants the cold case solved, too, so they have a similar goal. He could fill in pieces she might not have access to, especially with law enforcement, because she is on the outside. I mean, she thinks being on the outside is a huge advantage for her, and I think it really is, but having someone on the inside that could talk to the killer or give her forensic information, that helps her move her case forward, her story forward. Plus, there's a little love interest, because that helps with the tension in the story. It also challenges her. She is a total lone wolf, and she likes this guy, so how does that fit with her life plan kind of thing. It's another layer of tension in the story.

NR: Sloane is a character that has trouble expressing emotions and mentions a lot how she has to fake it. I'll admit it does come in handy when spotting criminals, kind of in a Dexter-esque sort of way. Why did you want to make Sloane someone who struggled with feeling or expressing emotions for this story?

MB: I've written so many characters that feel the story, and they're either recovering from a crime or they're on a quest for justice. I mean, they feel the story deeply, or the crime. I thought, "Well, what if it was someone who didn't feel it?" I didn't think about that in the first draft. I write books in about seven drafts. In the first draft, I'm kind of telling myself the story, and I didn't really see that about her. And then I thought, “What if she just doesn't feel these things? What if it's strictly analytical for her?” And that struck me. I've never done that before, and I just thought it was interesting. I wouldn't say she's a sociopath. Some people thought she might have PTSD, but she definitely does not process emotions like the average person.

NR: It kind of was enjoyable because of the way certain character interactions—I'm not going to give any spoilers—but once she started analyzing one specific character's behavior, I was like, “Ah, I think we're seeing something here.” It really was a good way to help her spot those criminals or maybe spot those people who never had really the best intentions in this situation or knew something and never shared.

MB: And she's not rattled with guilt, or she's not worried, and that kind of frees up her mind to really, just, it's all about the case. It's all about the details.

NR: Yeah, especially as an outsider, because everyone else has that, like, “I know this person, so they could never…” She doesn't have that. So, her also being a lot more analytical was really helping her home in on who's the problem here.

MB: Exactly. She's not weighed down by the emotions of the town. She doesn't grieve for her mother like most people would, but she wants justice for her. So that weight that many characters have carried, she didn't carry it.

NR: Speaking of convoluted perspectives, I personally always enjoy hearing from the POV of the bad guy. So, when the story kicks off from Rafe Colton's POV, the guy who's currently in prison for the disappearance of the four women, I was immediately drawn in. What was the reasoning behind kicking off the story from his POV?

MB: Well, if you know what he's thinking and you know his mindset, that gives you a sense of the stakes, that we're not dealing with the guy that was unjustly accused, or “Oops, they might have made a mistake.” We know they got the right guy. He is not a nice person. And now the tension is, is he going to get out? Is he going to get his parole? Is he going to be released? And then what? I like starting, if I can, within the bad guy's point of view. I've done it before because it shows the reader right away, this is the monster we're chasing.

NR: It definitely added to his level of character. I mean, it literally kicks off with him even lamenting about how he used to be some kind of suave Don Juan kind of guy, and now he is like, “I still got it.”

MB: When I listened to the book, I had forgotten, and it was like, “Oh, yeah, he's not a nice guy.” I think I spent a lot of time on that chapter just making sure that the reader understood, not a nice guy.

NR: His POV definitely adds to the confrontation, or I guess the sit-down, with Sloane. I really enjoyed his conversation with Sloane. You see how he likes to play with, honestly, women a lot of the times. You'll see that he does this kind of cat-and-mouse push-and-pull situation. And Sloane's personality really doesn't feed into it as much.

MB: It doesn't work with her. It doesn't work. She sees it for what it is. And, again, that gave her an advantage. In life it gives her some disadvantages, but in terms of solving this case, her lack of emotion is very helpful for her.

NR: So, the ending does touch on quite a heavy subject, and honestly, a true but unfortunate reality, especially coming from one of the culprits. Without giving any spoilers, did you always know how this story would end?

MB: No. I plot it out and then as I'm writing that first draft, as I get to know the characters better, I start to see twists and turns. I think this one surprised me. It did. Because when you're first writing a suspense, you're laying the groundwork for multiple possible bad guys out there. You want the reader to always be guessing. Sometimes that means I'm doing a little guessing, too. Then you just figure out which one fits the best at the end, and then it all comes together. I wish I could write that scene first, because then everything would go so much faster. But I spend a lot of time trying to come up with an ending that might surprise the reader.

"I love it when I surprise myself. If I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat and not getting surprised occasionally, I always worry that my reader won't be."

NR: Yeah, that definitely surprised me. I think the way it was laid out, it makes you have to go back a little, like, “Ooh, okay. Yes. This was the moment where we should have definitely locked in.” I think everything was set up very, very nicely.

MB: Yeah, the clues are always there. I hide them sometimes, but they're always there.

NR: What She Saw is a multicast performance featuring Samara Naeymi, James Anderson Foster, Andrew Eiden, and Patrick Lawlor. What part of the story were you the most excited to hear come to life?

MB: I was so pleasantly surprised by the voices of the characters, because you think you hear them when you're writing it, but when you hear someone else's interpretation. You’re right, that opening scene with Colton, I didn't realize how, because I'm working on the next book, I'd forgotten how much time I put into that. And the punch, the actor really brought the punch of that character to life. I liked hearing Sloane's voice. It just brings them alive to me. Because that scene in the beginning was meant to set the stakes, and I was really pleased with that. I thought, “This is pulling me right into the story,” and I wrote it. It's like, “What happened to these people?”

NR: Honestly, Sloane, in my opinion, is a character I would love to see solve more murders. Could there possibly be a series with Sloane Grayson?

MB: I don't know. I'll let you know. But I really liked Sloane. I could see her packing up her bag and getting in her jeep and finding the next Colton. Because I kind of hinted at some other ones she'd solved and how she did it, and how there's one out there that still bothers her. So, yeah, she would be someone, and even with McKenna helping her, she will spend the rest of her life solving these cases, because she's that passionate.

NR: And her perspective is really good. I love her interactions with people. I love the way she assesses the surroundings. I think, personally, I would love to see a lot more from Sloane.

MB: Pass it on.

NR: Just saying. So, as a writer and consumer of literature, what do you enjoy more, stories with multiple POVs or stories with a singular POV?

MB: If the writer does it well, I'm on for the ride either way. It's been a lot of multiple points of view lately. But I've read some singles that are fantastic. Each comes with their own challenge, because if you are writing in a single point of view, you've got to hint at all the other feelings, but you've got to do it from one character's perspective. The multiples are nice because then you get different takes on the scenes and the events. So, multiples are fun to write.

NR: You've enthralled your fans for over two decades with bestseller after bestseller. What's your secret? Any writing tips for listeners looking to write their own story?

MB: Well, I write every day. I write probably six days a week. I set daily page goals. I find when I do that, there's something about the structure of knowing I have to get this number of pages done today. I will dig deep into my subconscious and find pieces of the story I might not have if I didn't have that mini deadline. I write them on my calendar. I know where I need to be every day. But it just forces me to sit and think. I find the more you sit and think, the muse is more likely to show up and whisper ideas. If I'm not having a good time, she's generally not talking to me.

"It feels like it's wasted time if I'm not listening to something... It just adds a layer to everything. In fact, the world sounds a little silent without my earbuds in."

But when I'm at the computer and life, the news, events of the world, history, historical lessons, it all triggers little ideas. I find they kind of buzz around me. The next book is already kind of buzzing around, but I just write down the notes and don't think about them too much. But that's always a good sign that they're waiting. They're out there. You watch people, events. Like, I live in a vacation community, and how it changes in the summer, how it changes in the winter. All those little things just feed into ideas.

NR: Really cool. You've mentioned that you're currently working on something. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

MB: It's another suspense and it's set in the same area as What She Saw, because I like that area. I thought, “Well, I could do one more.” It's an old house. A current event happens, an emergency. And how does this connect to 17 years ago? I'm doing that “how does it all connect?” thing again. Family secrets, old houses, creepy houses in the mountains. Gets really dark out there at night. It's just a different season. You can change the season in an area and it changes the whole dynamic of a book. Once I finish this current draft, I'll be able to talk about it a little bit better. I'm still getting these little revelations and filling in pieces with this one.

NR: Yeah, you said that by draft seven, things clicked for you with What She Saw, so I can imagine that this new one is in its early stages.

MB: It's draft four, but I'm always fine-tuning, and sometimes I don't get a legit twist till like 10 minutes before I send the manuscript off. All of a sudden, you're like, “Wait a minute, if I change this and this and this…” and it just takes me a few minutes. It's like, why didn't I see that six months ago? But it takes that long to get to know the characters and the story and the location and the crime, and then it all falls into place.

NR: I like that. It feels like you're setting yourself as the narrator of the story, even though you're writing from their POVs, but it feels like you're acting as a narrator as you plan.

MB: Oh, yeah. I am telling myself the story. I'm telling myself the story and I love it when I surprise myself. If I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat and not getting surprised occasionally, I always worry that my reader won't be. So, if I'm surprised, that's good. It's like, “Oh, I didn't see that coming.”

NR: Clearly you are quite a master at these page-turners. Is there a genre that you may have, a guilty pleasure, that you may explore one day?

MB: Oh, yeah. One of my tricks is if I'm just trying to get my brain started on a Monday, you know, you're just not ready to work, I will write something that's completely different than what I work on. That's kind of almost how my writing career evolved. I started off writing historical romance, and then it's Monday, trying to get started, so I would start playing with a suspense novel. Then that grew into suspense novels. And then one day I had this idea of a completely different book, and I started playing with that, and that became—I write under another name, Mary Ellen Taylor—and that became a different line of books.

I'm always open to trying something different in those morning pages if the current story just isn't wanting to talk to me. And that happens sometimes. So, I kind of prime the pump and play with something different. I love fantasy. I love science fiction, history. I love rich historical novels still. Yeah, I would tackle any of those happily.

NR: Well, I will read them happily, or listen. I'll listen to them happily.

MB: Thank you. Thank you. I listen to books all the time. It annoys my family because there are always earbuds in my ears, and they know I'm half-listening to them.

NR: So, when did you start getting into audiobooks? You have so many and they all do really great. When did you start getting really into audiobooks and how has your relationship changed over the years with those?

MB: Well, my kids were little when I started, and once audiobooks came along, I was able to suddenly listen to research books or listen to another book. And then I'm still getting them to practice, I'm still getting them ready for school, or I was able to multitask so I could consume a story and keep the family on track. So that became a thing. I've got a drive this afternoon and I've already got an audiobook queued up to listen to because that's the quiet time. In the house sometimes it's easy to get distracted, but in a car you can't. It feels like it's wasted time if I'm not listening to something. Like, I could be folding laundry and listening to something or driving or cooking dinner, whatever. It just adds a layer to everything. In fact, the world sounds a little silent without my earbuds in.

NR: Two questions then about that. One, if you had to suggest a listen for fans, what would it be? And if you had to suggest one listen of your own for fans, which would it be?

MB: Well, for fans, let me see. For somebody else's book, one book I really just enjoyed, and it's completely out of my wheelhouse, was Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V.E. Schwab. I love the voices in that audiobook. She starts off with a Scottish accent. She's got the American. I mean, it's rich. She's got all these cultures she's blending, and you hear it in the actors’ voices, and it's really good. It's got its own set of twists in it, which I really liked.

And my books, let's see, The House Beyond the Dunes. That came out a couple of years ago, and that's actually set very close to where I live now. Even though it's a bustling kind of vacation area here, 20 miles up the road over the dunes, it's kind of isolated. And again, you’ve got to love those creepy locations. So, I enjoyed that one a lot.

NR: Well, thank you, Mary, for taking the time to chat about your newest release. Listeners, you can get What She Saw on Audible now.

MB: Thank you so much for having me today.