Episodes

  • [From the Archives] Making Sense of Fractions with Susan Empson, PhD

    [From the Archives] Making Sense of Fractions with Susan Empson, PhD
    Jul 30 2026
    Making Sense of Fractions with Susan Empson, PhD

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 23

    For quite a few adults, fractions were a stumbling block in their education, causing them to lose their footing and begin to doubt their ability to make sense of math. But this doesn't have to be the case for our students!

    In this rerelease of an episode from Season 2, we're talking with Susan Empson, PhD, about big ideas in fractions and how we can make them more meaningful for our students.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Susan B. Empson is an emerita professor in the department of Learning, Teaching, and Curriculum at the University of Missouri. She and Vicki Jacobs are currently collaborating on a National Science Foundation research grant to study elementary teachers' learning and development centered on teaching in ways that are responsive to children's mathematical thinking in the domain of rational numbers. Her research on children's thinking about fractions is the topic of her 2011 book, Extending Children's Mathematics: Fractions and Decimals (with co-author Linda Levi), and she has published widely in refereed journals, including Cognition and Instruction, Journal for Research in Mathematics Education, Educational Studies in Mathematics, Teaching Children Mathematics, and Journal of Mathematics Teacher Education. She has been a researcher of Cognitively Guided Instruction since 1989 and is a co-author of Children's Mathematics: Cognitively Guided Instruction (1st and 2nd editions).

    RESOURCES

    Extending Children's Mathematics: Fractions and Decimals book by Susan B. Empson and Linda Levi

    Mathematics Teacher: Learning and Teaching PK-12 journal articles authored and co-authored by Susan Empson

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    23 mins
  • [From the Archives] Breaking the Cycle of Math Trauma with Kasi Allen, PhD

    [From the Archives] Breaking the Cycle of Math Trauma with Kasi Allen, PhD
    Jul 16 2026
    Breaking the Cycle of Math Trauma with Kasi Allen, PhD

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 22

    If you are an educator, you've likely heard people say things like "I'm not a math person." While this may make you cringe, if you dig a bit deeper, many people can identify specific experiences that convinced them that this was true. In fact, some of you might secretly wonder if you are a math person as well.

    In this rerelease of an episode from Season 3, we're talking with Kasi Allen, PhD, about math trauma: what it is and how educators can take steps to address it.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Kasi Allen serves as the vice president of learning and impact at The Ford Family Foundation. She holds a PhD degree in educational policy and a bachelor's degree in mathematics and its history, both from Stanford University.

    RESOURCES

    "Jo Boaler Wants Everyone to Love Math" article in Stanford Magazine

    R-RIGHTS

    Learning to Love Math by Judy Willis, MD

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    27 mins
  • [From the Archives] The Big Place Value Episode with Eric Sisofo, Ed.D

    [From the Archives] The Big Place Value Episode with Eric Sisofo, Ed.D
    Jul 2 2026
    The Big Place Value Episode with Eric Sisofo, EdD

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 21

    If you ask an educator to share some of the most important ideas in elementary mathematics, most would include place value on that list. But what does it mean to understand place value, really? And what types of language, practices, and tools support students as they build understanding?

    In this rerelease of an episode from Season 2, we discuss these questions and more with Dr. Eric Sisofo from the University of Delaware.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Dr. Eric Sisofo is an assistant professor specializing in mathematics education in the School of Education at the University of Delaware. He earned his EdD in educational leadership, curriculum, and instruction; his MEd in curriculum and instruction with a concentration in mathematics education; and his BS in mathematical sciences from the University of Delaware. With a focus on mathematics education, Dr. Sisofo's education leadership portfolio, the capstone project for his doctoral degree, investigated the effects of lesson study on teacher candidates' use of student thinking when planning and reflecting on their teaching.

    RESOURCE

    National Council of Teachers of Mathematics

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    38 mins
  • [From the Archives] Practical Ways to Build a Strengths-Based Math Classroom with Dr. Beth Kobett

    [From the Archives] Practical Ways to Build a Strengths-Based Math Classroom with Dr. Beth Kobett
    Jun 18 2026
    Practical Ways to Build a Strengths-Based Elementary Math Classroom with Dr. Beth Kobett

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 20

    What if it were possible to capture all of the words teachers said or thought about students and put them in word clouds that hovered over each student throughout the day? What impact might the words in the cloud have on the student's learning experience? These are the questions that Beth Kobett and Karen Karp pose to start their book about strength-based teaching and learning.

    In this re-release of an episode from Season 2, we talk with Beth Kobett about practices that support strength-based teaching and learning, and ways educators can implement them in their classrooms.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Beth McCord Kobett, EdD, is the dean of the School of Education at Stevenson University, where she works with preservice teachers and leads professional learning efforts in mathematics education both regionally and nationally. She is a former classroom teacher, elementary mathematics specialist, adjunct professor, and university supervisor. She is also a former president of the Association of Maryland Mathematics Teacher Educators (AMMTE) and former chair of the Professional Development Services Committee of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM). Dr. Kobett is a recipient of the Mathematics Educator of the Year Award from the Maryland Council of Teachers of Mathematics (MCTM). She has also received Stevenson University's Excellence in Teaching Award as both an adjunct and full-time member of the Stevenson faculty.

    RESOURCES

    Strengths-Based Teaching and Learning in Mathematics: 5 Teaching Turnarounds for Grades K-6 book by Beth McCord Kobett and Karen S. Karp

    Rough Draft Math: Revising to Learn book by Amanda Jansen

    TODOS: Mathematics for All organization

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    25 mins
  • [From the Archives] Posing Purposeful Questions with Dr. DeAnn Huinker

    [From the Archives] Posing Purposeful Questions with Dr. DeAnn Huinker
    Jun 4 2026
    Posing Purposeful Questions with Dr. DeAnn Huinker

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 19

    Educational theorist Charles De Garmo once said, "To question well is to teach well. In the skillful use of the question, more than anything else, lies the fine art of teaching."

    In this re-release of an episode from Season 1, our guest is Dr. DeAnn Huinker, one of the coauthors of Taking Action: Implementing Effective Mathematics Teaching Practices in Grades K-5. We'll talk with DeAnn about the art and the science of questioning and ways that teachers can maximize the impact of their questions on student learning.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Dr. DeAnn Huinker is a professor of mathematics education in the division for teaching and learning and directs the Center for Mathematics and Science Education Research at University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee. Dr. Huinker teaches courses in mathematics education at the early childhood, elementary, and middle school levels.

    RESOURCES

    Principles to Actions: Ensuring Mathematical Success for All book by National Council of Teachers of Mathematics

    Taking Action book series by National Council of Teachers of Mathematics

    5 Practices for Orchestrating Productive Mathematics Discussions book by Margaret (Peg) Smith and Mary Kay Stein

    "Asking Questions in First-Grade Mathematics Classes: Potential Influences on Mathematical Thought" journal article by Michelle Perry and colleagues

    "Teaching is a Cultural Activity" journal article by James W. Stigler and James Hieber

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    28 mins
  • [From the Archives] Productive Ways to Build Fluency with Basic Facts with Dr. Jenny Bay-Williams

    [From the Archives] Productive Ways to Build Fluency with Basic Facts with Dr. Jenny Bay-Williams
    May 21 2026
    Productive Ways to Build Fluency with Basic Facts with Dr. Jenny Bay-Williams

    ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 18

    This summer we're replaying favorite listener episodes from the first four seasons of Rounding Up—like this one from Season 1. We'll return with all new episodes in early September.

    Ensuring students master their basic facts remains a shared goal among parents and educators. That said, many educators wonder what should replace the memorization drills that cause so much harm to their students' math identities.

    Today on the podcast, Jenny Bay-Williams talks about how to meet that goal and shares a set of productive practices that also support student reasoning and sensemaking.

    BIOGRAPHY

    Jennifer Bay-Williams is a professor of mathematics education at the University of Louisville. She has authored over 40 books and 100 journal articles and book chapters that focus on making mathematics meaningful to all students. She is an international leader in the field of mathematics education, frequently speaking at state, national, and international conferences and serving on national boards.

    RESOURCES

    "Eight Unproductive Practices in Developing Fact Fluency" article by Gina Kling and Jennifer M. Bay-Williams

    Math Fact Fluency: 60+ Games and Assessment Tools to Support Learning and Retention book by Jennifer M. Bay-Williams and Gina Kling

    Math Fact Fluency companion website by Kentucky Center for Mathematics

    TRANSCRIPT

    Click here for a full episode transcript.
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    26 mins
  • Supporting Multilingual Learners During Number Talks with Jana Dean & Heather Byington

    Supporting Multilingual Learners During Number Talks with Jana Dean & Heather Byington
    May 7 2026
    ROUNDING UP: Supporting Multilingual Learners During Number Talks with Jana Dean & Heather Byington What might it be like to engage in a number talk as a multilingual learner? How would you communicate your ideas, and what scaffolds might support your participation? Today, we're talking with Jana Dean and Heather Byington about ways educators can support multilingual learners' engagement and participation during number talks. BIOGRAPHIES Heather Byington has taught all grade levels over the span of her 27-year career as a bilingual public educator. She currently teaches middle school mathematics and English language support classes in Lacey, Washington. She is also a student at Washington State University pursuing a PhD in Mathematics Education. Jana Dean currently serves as CEO of the Mathematics Education Collaborative and supports a fantastic team of middle school math teachers in North Thurston Public Schools. Her research focuses on the intersection of content learning and language learning. RESOURCES Judit Moschkovich research Math Between Us blog "Number Talks: A Whole Class Routine for Learning Language for Learning Mathematics" article Mathematics Education Collaborative website jdean@mec-math.org Jana Dean email TRANSCRIPT Mike Wallus: Welcome to the podcast, Jana and Heather. I am so excited to be talking with you both today. Jana Dean: Good morning. Yeah, thanks for having us. Heather Byington: Thanks so much for having us. Mike: Absolutely. Jana, before we begin talking about the ways that teachers can support multilingual learners during number talks, I wonder if you can offer a working definition that would help educators visualize what a number talk actually looks like. Jana: Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. A number talk in terms of how we worked with the routine in this project consisted of the teacher providing some sort of visual prompt, starting either with a visual pattern of dots or a computation problem. And then the students get wait time, time to think about how they might solve that problem. And then as they share their strategies, the teacher records and asks them questions about their reasoning for why they approached the problem in the way that they approached it. The teacher creates what I like to think of as a visual mediator of student ideas. So the students' ideas become visible as they share them. So children who are listening can listen to the dialog or conversation between the person sharing and the teacher, but the ideas actually become visible as they're being shared. And the teacher always verifies with the student whether or not they've been understood. And the goal is not for the student to be right, but for the teacher and student to understand each other. Mike: That's really helpful. Heather, is there anything else you'd add to that? Heather: In terms of the way that we worked with it with multilingual learners and increasing their opportunities for engagement in the routine, we always gave them an option of talking to a partner and rehearsing their answer before they volunteered to share with the whole group. We prioritized calling on multilingual learners if they volunteered. And we also did a final reflection at the end. So those were some enhancements that we added onto the routine. Mike: I think that's really helpful and I'm excited to talk a little bit more about the details of those, Heather. One of the things that really struck me as we were preparing for this conversation was reading about the ways that some of the multilingual learners you worked with, how they described their experience during number talks. And it helped me to see the experience from their perspective and rethink some of the ways that I'd facilitated number talks in the past. And I'm wondering if you could share a bit about some of the feelings students told you that they were experiencing. Jana: Yeah. One of the things we suspected before we started was that as a language learner myself, talking about ideas that you're just forming in a language you're in the process of learning can be really intimidating. It's very challenging. So they were nervous. And when I interviewed fourth graders about their experience in number talks, even facilitated with language acquisition in mind, they talked about how much courage it took them to share their ideas. They also talked about and could very keenly remember moments when they had made a contribution that their teacher made use of or a time when they made a contribution that another student made use of later. So there was a lot of pride they felt in having shared their ideas once they found ways to do that. They also talked about how much easier it was to share our ideas than it was to share my idea. And so if, for instance, we had given them the opportunity—and like Heather said, we almost always gave them the opportunity to talk with a partner—they would often share using the pronoun "we." "This is how...
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    34 mins
  • Understanding the Roots of Fluency with Addition & Subtraction with Kristin Frang

    Understanding the Roots of Fluency with Addition & Subtraction with Kristin Frang
    Apr 23 2026
    ROUNDING UP: Understanding the Roots of Fluency with Addition & Subtraction with Kristin Frang Research suggests that supporting students' fluency with addition and subtraction hinges on understanding how children's mathematical thinking develops. So what are the concepts and ideas that play a part in fluency with combinations to 10, 20, and beyond? Today, we'll explore this question with Kristin Frang, director of instructional programs at Integrow Numeracy Solutions. BIOGRAPHY Kristin Frang is the director of instructional programs for Integrow Numeracy Solutions. She designs resources and services that support states, districts, schools, and individuals in transforming numeracy education. RESOURCES "Understanding Units Coordination" Season 4, Episode 11 of the Rounding Up podcast Integrow Numeracy Solutions website blog email address On Track to Numeracy book by Lucinda "Petey" MacCarty, Kurt Kinsey, David Ellemor-Collins, and Robert J. Wright TRANSCRIPT Mike Wallus: Welcome to the podcast, Kristin. It is so great to be talking with you today. Kristin Frang: It's great to be here. I feel so honored to be on this podcast. Mike: Before we dive into a conversation about addition and subtraction, I'd like to do a bit of grounding. So you're currently the director of instructional programs for Integrow Numeracy Solutions. I wonder if briefly you could tell the listeners: What is Integrow Numeracy Solutions, and what's its mission? Kristin: Yeah. Integrow Numeracy Solutions' mission is to transform numeracy education by connecting research with practice and empowering educators to advance student mathematical thinking and success. But I really want to bring that mission to life through a story, just a quick story, if I can. Prior to my role with Integrow, I was a K–12 mathematics consultant. And one of the things that I did was, when the Common Core [State Standards] were released, I worked with teachers to transition to the then-new standards. We studied many documents together, including progression documents that were included in the standards, and teachers were honestly fascinated by this idea of a progression and that they were embedded into the standard. But I remember an instance where we had been studying these progressions and a teacher came up and said to me, "I know where my students are at; I can see them in these progressions. But how do I get them to the next stage?" And I didn't have an answer (laughs) at that point. I was a former middle school and high school teacher. I was working with elementary teachers. I was studying, just like them, these progression documents, and I could only categorize the reasoning that was in front of us. And so that next step to say, "Oh, this is what I would do and bring into action in the classroom," I didn't have an answer for. And so that's really where I was introduced to Integrow—formerly [the] US Math Recovery Council, but now Integrow Numeracy Solutions. And at the heart of our mission to empower educators is to bring research to the classroom in accessible and practical ways that advance student reasoning. We do this in professional learning, we do it in supplemental resources, and we also hire and train educators to deliver high-dosage tutoring for students to accelerate their learning. Mike: I want to just linger on something you said, which was—and I really appreciate both the truth of the statement you made and also the vulnerability, which is to say—I think for many teachers, there's this experience of, "I can see my students in these progressions, but I'm not sure what to do when it comes to making moves to shift where they're at or help them move." And I think that's a profound truth for so many teachers. And I think it's really important that folks like you, who are doing this work, acknowledge that that's a place you were in once as well because that's so true for so many of us. Kristin: Yeah. There's always a new thing where we're watching students, we're thinking about the next steps. And so often it boils down to categorizing the things that students are doing now, but not often figuring out: What are the true actions that we take with real children who are in front of us to get them to progress in their own reasoning? We can tell them the next step, but my belief system that is aligned with Integrow Numeracy Solutions is that the most powerful thing is to help students have those experiences and create that understanding themselves. And to do that, it's more complex than just knowing what the next benchmark is for them. Mike: I think that's a helpful introduction. And I also find it to be a good segue for all the questions that I wanted to explore today. So let me start here: It feels important to acknowledge that supporting students' addition and subtraction fluency actually hinges on understanding how children's mathematical thinking develops. So I wonder if you can talk about some of the concepts and ...
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    34 mins