Wrestling the Angel

The Foundations of Mormon Thought: Cosmos, God, Humanity

De: Terryl L. Givens

Narrado por: B.J. Harrison

In this first volume of his magisterial study of the foundations of Mormon thought and practice, Terryl L. Givens offers a sweeping account of Mormon belief from its founding to the present day. Situating the relatively new movement in the context of the Christian tradition, he reveals that Mormonism continues to change and grow. Givens shows that despite Mormonism's origins in a biblical culture strongly influenced by 19th-century Restorationist thought, which advocated a return to the Christianity of the early Church, the new movement diverges radically from the Christianity of the creeds.

Mormonism proposes its own cosmology and metaphysics, in which human identity is rooted in a premortal world as eternal as God. Mormons view mortal life as an enlightening ascent rather than a catastrophic fall, and reject traditional Christian concepts of human depravity and destiny. Popular fascination with Mormonism's social innovations, such as polygamy and communalism, and its supernatural and esoteric elements - angels, gold plates, seer stones, a New World Garden of Eden, and sacred undergarments - have long overshadowed the fact that it is the most enduring and even thriving product of the 19th century's religious upheavals and innovations.

Wrestling the Angel traces the essential contours of Mormon thought from the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to the contemporary LDS church, illuminating both the seminal influence of the founding generation of Mormon thinkers and the significant developments in the church over almost 200 years. The most comprehensive account of the development of Mormon thought ever written, Wrestling the Angel will be essential reading for anyone seeking to understand the Mormon faith.

©2015 Oxford University Press (P)2014 Audible Inc.

great research on ideas before the restoration

although I'm no longer LDS, I still believe in the restoration and the BoM, so we have some different beliefs about JS and what I believe he actually taught, as I bring out some here https://seekingyhwh.com/resources/lds/ . But I think you did a fantastic job at researching what others believed before the restoration showing these ideas and beliefs are not new.

Good overview of LDS doctrine

Doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in context of history and theology. Some of the author's assumptions, conclusions and suggestions are, well, his theories - could be true, but necessarily. But most of the text are just facts. Very valuable and enjoyable to listen to (great voice!).

A detailed scholarly study of Mormon thought

This is an excellent, in depth study of the foundations of Mormon thought, and how the doctrines of the church have evolved over time. It is extremely detailed and requires a decent amount of effort on the part of the listener, but it is worth the effort to more fully understand the material presented.

Great Overview of Mormon Theology

Any additional comments?

This was the best book on Mormon theology I've ever read. By providing a historical overview for each topic, Givens avoids the problem of merely providing his personal views on Mormon theology. This book has enough depth to be interesting for those already familiar with Mormonism, but I believe he has also succeeded at creating an overview that is accessible for the novice.

Most Interesting!

I found this, like Givens' other books, to be incredibly thought provoking. Being LDS myself, I was not always comfortable with the things he had to say, but I am very grateful for the straight forward way he writes and researches. No sugar coating here. No excuse making or spinning, just the facts, ma'am. In the end, even the things that made me squirm seemed understandable, which understanding is exactly what I was seeking when I chose this book. Now I have the option of pondering so many questions I had before and which have arisen because of this book. I feel that I have a firmer base on which to form or reform my opinions. After all, it is all about choice.

Great Resource for Mormon Theology and Philosophy

My respect for the objective work of Terryl Givens grows after this work! It is an indispensable resource for any library if you want great history and insights into LDS theology and philosophy. Givens does a great job (as always) explaining and being open with the history that makes up important foundational elements of the LDS Church's doctrinal underpinnings.

Ah, so that's what Mormons believe!

I wish I could find the equivalent to this book for all religions. It is an inside look at what an expert thinks their own religion's philosophical and theological ontological foundations consist of.

I'm an outsider looking in and this book told me what they believe and why they believe what they do. The historical context that surrounds their beliefs and the defense going back to Paul, or Augustine or other early church fathers even (considered slightly heretical by some) Pelagius and Origen. The author was sensitive to criticism for the church being accused of 'Pelagiansism' but 'most Romantics were Pelagians' for a reason.

William Blake (I think it's safe to call him a Romantic) was mentioned surprisingly many times within this book. Spinoza was too. I had not realized the connections to them and the Mormon Church. The Universalist and Unitarian seemed to pop up frequently. The author said that 'Universalist believe that God is too good to damn humans and the Unitarians believe humans are too good to be damned'. Overall, the Mormons tend toward that way of thinking too.

There are a whole lot of areas where the Mormons seem to disagree with most other religions and this book does an excellent job of explaining what the Mormon's believe in and why. Mormon's don't have the trinity, all is material (albeit tiny material as Blake would say), preexistence of souls, after death we become God like, marriage in heaven and with family, and just as many other interesting things. Now, I can understand what the Mormons believe in their own terms.

The author said something about gender is binary and that our preexistence can change that but in the afterlife our roles will be well defined. The author also latter said 'that most experts think gender is a social construct'. I have no idea why he would say that. I would say that most experts think people are born gay, or straight, or bi, or transgender, or in other words that God made us who we are in his own image. The author mentioned that the Boy Scouts are the exemplars for structure with in well formed communities. The author couldn't mention that the Mormons have divested themselves from association with the Boy Scouts of America since the Mormons instituted that policy after this book was published because the BSA now allow gays to be troop leaders. Also, the author did not tell me why the Mormons have been actively opposed to equality in marriage and were so vigorously in support of California's Proposition 8 (hate) which was against equality in marriage.

I guess I really don't care how great a religion's ontological foundational beliefs are, if they discriminate against somebody because they are born that way I can reject it prima facie. To me, it would be equivalent to saying if someone was manic depressive, or schizophrenic, or autistic, or had curly hair they just don't deserve equality and don't deserve God's love or the full unconditional support of the Church.

I understand the author was explaining his religion on his own terms and did an excellent job at that. I just felt he owed me a clear explanation on how he can justify inequality based on how God created us in his own image.

A comprehensive read

As a practicing Mormon, I am always looking for ways to expand my knowledge and understanding of the gospel. The fault to many books about the LDS faith is they are most often one sided, either attempting to destroy faith or a repetition of the basics. This was an amazing unbiased look at all aspects of Mormon beliefs. An opportunity not to question your faith but to challenge your understanding. A great read. I wish Audible would provide more books like this.

Broader scope than other books by Givens

Terryl Givens is one of my favorite authors, and overall I enjoyed this book and learned much from it. It’s quite a bit different than many of his other books, as it tries to cover the entire scope of Latter Day Saint theology, rather than focusing on one specific element or application. It is also more focused to a general scholarly audience who may not be Latter-day Saints themselves, compared to his other books. If you’re an academic looking for an overview of Latter Day Saint theology, this is your book. If you’re a Latter Day Saint looking to improve his knowledge about your own religion, you will still learn tons about your own religion, especially its history and how some theological viewpoints have shifted over the years, but I would recommend his other books such as the God who Weeps over this book.

Thought provoking look at the origins of theology within the LDS sect of Christianity

Just finished and will re-listen, as I do to most works the Givens write. As one who longs for universalism or pluralism it is good to see that in the beginning that is what it was and wants to return to.