In the final part of her conversation with Pete Colby, founder of Pragmatism, Anna moves into what organisations and managers can do differently to stop conflict escalating, and why the current approach to employment tribunals represents a massive and largely avoidable problem.

Pete opens with a practical challenge to the way organisations handle flexible working requests, arguing that the form should follow the conversation, not replace it. The same logic applies to performance improvement plans, grievance policies, and almost every other formal process: the structure exists to document what should already have happened, not to substitute for it.

The conversation takes a genuinely surprising turn when Pete makes the case for trade unions as one of the most powerful and underused allies a manager can have. Drawing on his own experience taking a site from twelve grievances a week to one, and helping Rolls-Royce avoid 2,000 compulsory redundancies, Pete explains why the relationship between management and unions is almost always about trust, and why the person you least want to talk to is usually the one you most need to.

Anna and Pete also address the broader backdrop to rising grievances and tribunal claims: the cost of living, the pressure people are under outside work, and why workplaces have become one of the few places where people feel they can push back. Pete's response is characteristically direct. You cannot fix everything, but you can listen. And being heard matters more than people realise.

The episode closes with Pete's advice for managers who feel uncomfortable having difficult conversations: that discomfort is normal, it is not a personal failing, and the way through it is to develop the confidence to have a go.

Find out more about Pete's work at https://pragmatism-uk.co.uk

Connect with Anna

Got a question or a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Anna would love to hear from you. Find her on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok, or visit The People Expert to find out more about her work supporting line managers and HR professionals.

LinkedIn: ⁠linkedin.com/in/annathomas-hr⁠ Instagram: ⁠

Instagram.com/practicalmanager⁠

TikTok: ⁠tiktok.com/@practicalpeoplemanager⁠

The People Expert: ⁠https://www.thepeopleexpert.co.uk⁠

In the final part of her conversation with Yohan Macdonald, founder of Great Minds Training, Anna turns to two of the most fundamental questions in people management: what is the real role of HR when it comes to mental health and wellbeing, and what does it actually take to build the trust that makes every other conversation possible?

Yohan is clear that if HR is where a wellbeing strategy starts and ends, the organisation is already on the back foot. HR has a vital role as a connector and a support, but the conversations that matter most need to happen between managers and their people, not be handed upwards. Anna reflects honestly on how easy it is for HR professionals to step in and take over, and why that can actually rob managers of the very experiences that would build their confidence over time.

The conversation moves into trust, and Yohan draws on Brené Brown's marble jar analogy to explain why trust is built slowly, through consistent small actions, and why a single act of betrayal can shatter it entirely. He makes the point that no one shares something meaningful with someone they do not trust, and that trust is something you earn through what you do, not what you say.

Anna and Yohan also explore the question of whether people management is actually the right role for everyone. Yohan is refreshingly honest about what he has seen in training rooms and what it means when someone consistently meets resistance from their team. The answer, sometimes, is that people management is simply not the right fit.

The episode closes with Yohan's three-word takeaway for every line manager listening: start the conversation.

Find out more about Yohan's work, including his SAFE Conversation Framework and free wellbeing strategy assessment, at https://greatminds.training

Connect with Anna:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/annathomas-hrInstagram: instagram.com/practicalmanagerTikTok: tiktok.com/@practicalpeoplemanagerThe People Expert: https://www.thepeopleexpert.co.uk

In the final part of her conversation with Ellie Kay, ADHD and AuDHD coach and neurodiversity specialist, Anna moves into coaching, conflict, and what genuinely inclusive management looks like in practice.

Ellie explains what ADHD coaching actually involves and why it is different from traditional coaching. For many people, especially those newly diagnosed, it starts with validation: finally feeling heard, understood, and released from years of shame about things that were never their fault. Ellie also introduces the concept of co-coaching, a facilitated three-way conversation between a coach, a manager, and an employee that can resolve tension before it ever reaches a formal process.

The conversation gets into the specifics of what managers do that unknowingly causes harm. Cancelling meetings with no context, sending a message that just says "can we have a quick chat", or copying someone into a long email about an investigation without any warning. For someone with ADHD, these small things can derail an entire day. The fix, as Ellie makes clear, is often just a few extra words of context.

Anna and Ellie close with a rapid-fire round that distils the whole conversation into practical, immediately usable takeaways: the one question every manager should ask, the one behaviour they should rethink, and the one leadership habit that creates real inclusion.

Ellie also shares something personal: how her ADHD diagnosis helped her finally forgive herself for missing a smear test that led to cervical cancer in her 20s. It is a powerful reminder of why diagnosis matters, and why the shame that goes with undiagnosed neurodivergence has real consequences.

Find out more about Ellie's work at https://www.elliekay.co.uk

Connect with Anna:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/annathomas-hr

Instagram: instagram.com/practicalmanager

TikTok: tiktok.com/@practicalpeoplemanager

The People Expert: https://www.thepeopleexpert.co.uk