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Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse

By: Destination Discourse
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Summary
Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

Economics Marketing Marketing & Sales
Episodes
  • 106: Are DMOs Paying Agencies for the Wrong Thing? (Agency Panel Reaction, Pt. 2)
    Nov 5 2026

    In part two of their reaction to episode 103's agency panel, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker pull on the two threads the panel left hanging. First: at ESTO, 80% of the room said they had an agency of record - and nobody would say what they loved about theirs. The panel called that a definition problem. Adam argues perception is reality, and a gap that big is substantive, not semantic.

    Stuart offers a different diagnosis. Most DMO budgets go to paid media, and digital media is losing value fast - organic traffic to "things to do in Myrtle Beach" is down about 20% as AI overviews take over, while publishers stack more ads on fewer pages. Maybe the frustration isn't with agencies, but with what the money is buying. Adam shares an audit where an agency refused a client access to its own website backend, and they debate whether agencies with shareholders can afford to take a short-term hit for a long-term relationship.

    Second: if agencies should be valued for their brains, not their hands, how do you pay for strategy? They unpack the perverse incentive of percentage-of-media-spend pricing, why ad hoc buying sacrifices retainer efficiencies, Adam's experience with fractional staffing models, the idea of paying agencies to develop in-house talent, and why SaaS may be the agency survival plan.

    Bottom Line: When agency pay is tied to media spend and media value is shrinking, both sides lose. The fix starts with agencies willing to recommend what's right for the destination, even when it costs them.

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    55 mins
  • 105: What Are DMOs Actually Paying Agencies For? (Agency Panel Reaction, Pt. 1)
    Oct 29 2026

    This is part one of a two-part reaction to episode 103, where a panel of leading destination agencies agreed on two big things: AI is commoditizing tactical execution, and the DMO procurement process is broken. What they didn't settle was what comes next. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker pick up those threads and try to move from diagnosis to solutions - with part two digging into where they disagreed with the panel.

    If DMOs can bring more execution in-house, the real question becomes how to value and pay for strategic thinking - and no pricing model for that exists yet. Stuart and Adam take on an RFP process that treats creative partners like toilet paper and lawn care, judges the future by the past, and asks agencies to give away their best ideas for free. They work through alternatives: paid sprints with finalists, an approved vendor bench with annual scorecards, initiative-based partnerships instead of agency-of-record retainers, and incentive structures where agencies take on real risk for a meaningful upside tied to the right objectives.

    Plus, Stu's News: the Tesla Roadster launch, and the AI-generated deepfake Elon livestreams that outranked the real event on YouTube - and what that means for trust in official channels.

    Bottom Line: None of these fixes work while DMO incentives reward spending the budget instead of producing outcomes. If AI handles the doing, DMOs need to get clear on what they're actually buying from their agencies - and build relationships where everybody only wins if everybody wins.

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    47 mins
  • 104: Why Aren't DMOs Weaponizing Their Local Universities for Visitors and Advocacy? (Kristen Adamo)
    Oct 22 2026

    Every DMO says it wants community partners, yet most ignore the one institution already moving thousands of people into their destination every year. Kristen Adamo, President and CEO of Go Providence, joins Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker to argue that local colleges and universities are an untapped engine for both visitation and political protection.

    Kristen explains how city budget pressure on tax-exempt schools - through payment-in-lieu-of-taxes (PILOT) negotiations - has opened the door for DMOs. Her team launched "Providence Hearts Brown," a partner campaign that became a citywide rallying cry after a tragedy on campus, and hosted Brown's roughly 300 internal meeting planners on a holiday site tour to win conferences. Stuart shares how Visit Myrtle Beach works with Coastal Carolina University and Horry Georgetown Technical College on workforce pipelines, culinary events and a marching band activation in London. Adam challenges DMOs to drop the fight over credit, sponsor college athletics and recognize that NIL now affects a school's ability to draw visitors. The group also covers parents weekend, campus tours, alumni capture and fam tours for elected officials.

    Bottom Line: Your local university already moves visitors and holds influence at every table you need. DMOs that partner with it build both a visitor pipeline and a coalition that will defend their funding.

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    54 mins
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