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Relentless Health Value

Relentless Health Value

By: Stacey Richter
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Welcome to Relentless Health Value, the podcast for those working in the belly of the beast to fix our fundamentally broken healthcare system. If you are a self-insured employer, plan sponsor, benefits consultant, clinician, a C-suite executive or anyone in the business of healthcare tired of the "transformational theater" and marketing fluff, you have found your tribe. The U.S. healthcare system isn't a rational market; it's a game of Pachinko where perverse incentives reign, and as we always say, where there's mystery, there's margin. Hosted by Stacey Richter, we relentlessly hunt down the administrative "inches" of waste and expose the hidden fees draining the $5.6 trillion healthcare sector. We transform wonky healthcare theory into ruthlessly practical, actionable insights. Whether it's demanding radical transparency, navigating complex PBM contracts, or buying actual healthcare instead of illusory discounts, our mandate is simple: If it results in a net positive for patients, we do it. Join the Relentless Health Value Tribe to equip yourself with the fiduciary armor needed to outwit the status quo, demand accountability, and drive real change.©BD Bridges LLC, All Rights Reserved. Hygiene & Healthy Living Physical Illness & Disease Politics & Government
Episodes
  • The Sleeping Giants of Healthcare—Why Self-insured Employers and Clinicians Keep Missing Each Other, With Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA. EP523

    The Sleeping Giants of Healthcare—Why Self-insured Employers and Clinicians Keep Missing Each Other, With Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA. EP523
    Aug 5 2026
    Why Self-Insured Employers and Clinicians Keep Missing Each Other, With Suhas Gondi, MD. The Sleeping Giants of Healthcare: Why Employers and Clinicians Keep Missing Each Other. Episode 523. Dr. Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA, chief medical officer at Health Strategy and an attending physician at Massachusetts General Hospital, co-wrote a New England Journal of Medicine article — "A Sleeping Giant of Health Care Affordability—Self-Insured Employers" — because most clinicians, he found, have little idea a self-insured employer, not an insurance carrier, is the one actually paying for their patients' care. Talking with Stacey Richter, Dr. Gondi argues that self-insured employers and clinicians are both "sleeping giants," each holding real power over cost and access, who rarely communicate directly — leaving patients caught in the gap. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why Dr. Suhas Gondi and his NEJM co-author, Zirui Song, MD, PhD, wrote for clinicians who, they found, have little sense that a self-insured employer — not the carrier name on the card — actually pays for a patient's care ✅ How a GLP-1 prescription can get denied at the pharmacy counter even after a clinician verifies coverage, because the employer has quietly moved GLP-1 coverage exclusively through a single third-party prescribing and coaching vendor ✅ Why GLP-1 spending alone can push a self-insured employer's pharmacy costs up 9% to 20% in a year, and why the roughly eight-year payback period employers are counting on assumes patients stay adherent far longer than most actually do ✅ How oncology site-of-care steering — an employer declining to pay a roughly 40% premium for infusion at a hospital-owned center instead of a physician's office — can look to the patient and oncologist like a denied cancer drug ✅ Why Dr. Gondi says EHRs like Epic are built to optimize revenue for hospital-system customers, not to surface a lower-cost site of care for patients or plan sponsors ✅ Dr. Gondi's advice for closing the gap: clinicians and employers should communicate directly, especially before a coverage change lands on patients, rather than assuming direct contracting is the only fix WHY THIS MATTERS Roughly half to 60% of the US population has commercial insurance, and nearly three-quarters of large employers self-insure that coverage — yet most clinicians have no visibility into the plan-level decisions those employers make, and most employers have no channel to explain those decisions to the doctors whose patients are affected. Both sides, Dr. Gondi says, usually believe they're doing the right thing — covering the GLP-1, covering the cancer drug — and the patient still gets lost in between. Closing that gap doesn't require full direct contracting, he argues, just employers and local provider groups actually talking to each other before a coverage change lands on a patient, not after. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Study: New England Journal of Medicine article, "A Sleeping Giant of Health Care Affordability—Self-Insured Employers," by Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA, and Zirui Song, MD, PhD EP406 with Lauren Vela: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP519 with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP509 with Patrick Nelli: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP494 with Sarah Emond: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP501 with Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP468 with Matt McQuide: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps Article: Acquired's episode on how Epic quietly powers American healthcare === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: Episode Page ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar 📺 Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🎤 Listen on Apple Podcasts 🎤 Listen on Spotify === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn ✭ Threads ✭ Bluesky ✭ X 00:00 Introduction to this episode. 00:35 A big thank you. 06:22 The conversation with Dr. Suhas Gondi. 07:08 Why Dr. Suhas Gondi and his coauthor wrote their article. 09:24 Why the affordability of care and the decisions self-employers are making about coverage matter to clinicians. 12:12 What the term "sleeping giants" implies and how that reflects the reality of healthcare. 14:31 A case study. 21:24 How the patient can still get lost even when both the employer and clinician think they're doing the right thing. 22:52 An example from the oncology space. 28:47 Dr. Suhas Gondi's advice to clinicians. 30:55 The communication gap between clinicians and employers. 33:30 Why the presence of middlemen should not prevent communication between clinicians and employers.
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    35 mins
  • Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl: The Truth About Pass-Through PBM Contracts and Generic Compliance Ratios

    Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl: The Truth About Pass-Through PBM Contracts and Generic Compliance Ratios
    Aug 26 2026
    How Discount Theater and Generic Compliance Ratios Quietly Overcharge Patients and Employers. Episode 526. Mark Cuban, co-founder of Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drug Company, and Cora Opsahl, managing director of Peterson Health Analytics and former director of the 32BJ Health Fund, join Stacey Richter for an outtake from their conversation last fall (EP488) on the operational mechanics of the pharmacy supply chain. They trace how a generic compliance ratio—typically requiring pharmacies to buy at least 92% of their generics from a single primary wholesaler—pushes independent pharmacies into paying a premium that gets passed straight to patients, and how so-called pass-through PBM contracts can pay pharmacies using one pricing formula while billing employers using an entirely different one. Along the way, they walk through the classic generic imatinib example—a drug Cost Plus Drugs sells for $25 a month that a traditional PBM channel has billed at $9,000—to show why a discount off an inflated reference price is, as Cuban puts it, discount theater. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why pharmacies get locked into overpaying: wholesalers set a Generic Compliance Ratio requiring pharmacies to buy at least 92% of their generics from them or face chargebacks and fees that wipe out their margin ✅ The classic generic imatinib example: Cost Plus Drugs sells it for $25 a month, while the same drug billed through a traditional PBM channel has run $9,000 a month—a "discount" off a $27,000 branded Gleevec price that Mark Cuban calls discount theater ✅ How specialty tiers compound the problem: because generic imatinib gets classified on a specialty tier, patients can owe 25% coinsurance calculated off the inflated WAC price rather than the drug's real cost ✅ Why a "pass-through" PBM contract isn't simple math: Cora Opsahl explains that PBMs often reimburse pharmacies on an acquisition-cost-plus formula while billing employers a completely different AWP-minus formula for the same claim ✅ Why claims audits keep finding money owed back to the plan—and why employers are often restricted to auditing only a pre-approved sample of 250 claims ✅ Mark Cuban's advice for the next RFP: simply requiring that Cost Plus Drugs be included in the network is often enough on its own to get PBMs to offer better rebates and terms WHY THIS MATTERS As Stacey Richter puts it, where there's mystery, there's margin—and pharmacy pricing is thick with both. Generic compliance ratios, WAC-based specialty tiers, and pass-through contracts that pay pharmacies one number while billing employers another all point to the same underlying reality: so much of what gets called an expense in medicine is simply pricing failure. For plan sponsors and brokers heading into their next RFP, understanding these mechanics—rather than accepting a discount off an inflated reference price—is what it takes to move from passive price taker to informed decision maker. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE EP429 with Luke Slindee, PharmD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP488 with Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP422 with Benjamin Jolley, PharmD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP465 with Chris Crawford: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP486 with Stan Schwartz, MD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: Episode Page ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar 📺 Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🎤 Listen on Apple Podcasts 🎤 Listen on Spotify === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn ✭ Threads ✭ Bluesky ✭ X 00:00 Introduction to this episode. 03:43 An overview of today's conversation. 05:59 Today's conversation with Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl. 07:25 Why discounts are meaningless without knowing the absolute price. 09:29 What a generic compliance ratio does. 12:28 Thinking about the demand side for employers. 15:00 The complication of a pass-through contract. 17:48 Why too much of healthcare comes down to a negotiation.
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    20 mins
  • Private Equity in Primary Care: What the Data Actually Shows, With Yashaswini Singh, PhD. Episode 528.

    Private Equity in Primary Care: What the Data Actually Shows, With Yashaswini Singh, PhD. Episode 528.
    Sep 9 2026
    Private Equity in Primary Care: Just Another Inflationary Business Model? What Does the Data Actually Show, With Yashaswini Singh, PhD (EP528) Private equity has been buying up primary care practices for years, promising the capital that chronically underfunded clinicians badly need. But does the money actually make care better? Yashaswini Singh, PhD, MPA, the Thomas J. and Alice M. Tisch Assistant Professor of Health Services, Policy, and Practice at Brown University, has spent years studying that question — and her newest research, published in Health Affairs and JAMA Health Forum, finds PE-affiliated primary care physicians negotiate prices 8% to 10% higher than independent doctors, while patient outcomes barely budge. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why negotiated prices for PE-affiliated primary care physicians run 8% to 10% higher than independent doctors — and why hospital-affiliated physicians still command the highest prices of all ✅ How a national study of roughly 200 PE-acquired primary care practices found a 20% increase in preventive services, including the Medicare Annual Wellness Visit, with no evidence of low-value care ✅ Why "cognitive atrophy" — deskilling from rigid, box-checking visits — isn't inevitable under PE ownership, but why the "best case scenario" often isn't what's actually happening ✅ How opaque common ownership — the same investors owning primary care, GI, orthopedic, and oncology practices — can create hidden referral incentives current data can't detect ✅ Why site-of-care payment arbitrage — a hospital-owned MRI can cost double or triple an independent one — drives referral-machine incentives regardless of who owns the practice ✅ Why PE's promise to reduce fragmentation through consolidation has instead produced physician turnover that undermines the patient-doctor relationship WHY THIS MATTERS Primary care clinicians are chronically underpaid, and private equity promises the capital to fix that. But Dr. Singh's research shows a real tradeoff: costs rise 8% to 10% while quality barely moves. Whether professional capital builds sustainable, whole-person care or becomes, as Stacey puts it, corporate arbitrage in a different Halloween costume depends on realigning payment incentives around outcomes rather than throughput — something no ownership model, PE included, is yet built to do. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE EP519 with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps LinkedIn Post by Yashaswini Singh, PhD EP474 with Yashaswini Singh, PhD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps Study: "Private Equity Acquisitions in Primary Care" (Health Affairs) Study: "Private Equity Acquisition in Primary Care and Avoidable Hospitalizations" (JAMA Health Forum) LinkedIn Comment by Andrea DeSantis, DO, FAAFP EP521 with Andrew Tsang: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps EP523 with Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: Show Notes ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar 🎤 Follow us on Apple Podcasts 🎤 Follow us on Spotify 📺 Subscribe to our YouTube channel === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn ✭ Threads ✭ Bluesky ✭ X 00:00 Introduction to this episode. 04:16 The three categories covered in today's episode. 05:36 The conversation with Dr. Singh. 07:02 Findings these private equity studies have found about primary care. 12:00 Does private equity make cognitive atrophy inevitable? 14:49 In PE-backed, single-specialty primary care, is it easier for PCPs to have full-spectrum clinical scope? 17:14 Why perverse financial incentives cause problems but aren't necessarily an inevitability. 22:17 Fragmentation and private equity in primary care. 25:46 Indie primary care versus PE-backed primary care versus hospital system–backed primary care. 32:22 What Dr. Singh is thinking about and looking to solve for next. 34:30 Inspiring physician-led work and a reason for hope.
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    39 mins
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