The funding model for scientific research in the U.S. hasn’t changed much since the end of World War II. The basic formula: generous federal grants to universities, with private companies gradually picking up innovative product ideas from the findings. Today there’s growing talk of a reset. And that might mean fewer federal funds for universities and more partnerships with industry, philanthropy, and state governments. Oh, and AI may cause even more disruption. On this episode, Jeff and Michael talk with Justin Schwartz, chancellor of the University of Colorado at Boulder, who has been trying out new kinds of research partnerships. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

0:00 - Introduction

2:00 - Introducing Our Guest

3:09 - A ‘Cycle of Reactivity’ in Research

4:56 - Moving From Entitlement to Impact

7:12 - How Research Funding Needs to Change

11:45 - Can Private Enterprise Make Up For Lost Federal Funds?

13:41 - What About Global Competition?

16:36 - The Reverse-Pitch Model

18:22 - Should Colleges Benefit More When Research is Commercialized?

23:07 - Why Aren’t Companies Complaining About Cuts?

28:40 - How More Local Funding of Research Alters the Landscape

32:11 - How Will AI Impact University Research?

37:15 - Sponsor Break

37:48 - A Candid Assessment

39:13 - Making the Value of Research Clearer

41:57 - Defining What Research Serves ‘The National Interest’

45:12 - Cuts Could Have Long-Lasting Consequences

47:58 - Searching For a Long-Term Consensus

51:41 - AI Could Bring New Players In Research

53:44 - Wrap-Up

“The Endless Frontier,” by Vannevar Bush, 1945.

“Science: A New Golden Age,” U.S. Office of Science and Technology Policy, 2026.

“CU Boulder joins CU spinout Inflection, other innovators in America's Quantum Space Initiative,” U.C. Boulder website.

Michael Crow says invention of iPhone was backed by the work of 3,000 researchers. ASU’s Instagram account.

It’s time for universities to take big swings. To meet this moment of uncertainty and anxiety, the University of Southern California is moving to a model where more students engage in hands-on experiences as they learn. But what can colleges do when there aren’t enough internships for all the students who want them? Jeff and Michael explore this topic with Beong-Soo Kim (president, USC), Ian McDaniel (a USC undergrad who interned at SpaceX), Gaurav Sukhatme (USC’s dean of engineering), Shauna Chung (senior manager for higher ed at Adobe), and David Barnhart (research professor of astronautical engineering at USC). This episode is made with support from Adobe.

0:00 Episode Introduction
3:03 Goals for USC in the Next 10 Years
6:59 How Important Is Experiential Learning?
10:12 Providing Immersive Education to Every Student
12:07 How Can Colleges Afford Experiential Programs?
14:49 Are Colleges Doing Enough to Cut Costs?
16:39 Comprehensiveness Versus Specialization
19:02 Making Tough Trade-Offs
21:20 Balancing Risk and Ambition
24:15 The Importance of Board Culture
26:46 Sponsor Break
27:24 Introducing USC Panel
28:26 Adding Internships to an Engineering Degree
31:42 A College Student’s Case For Hands-On Learning
34:15 How Students Can Show What They Know in AI Era
39:09 Building a Flywheel
42:03 Potential Downsides of University Partnerships
43:23 Scaling Experiential Learning
46:18 Where Do Students Learn Soft Skills?
48:36 What Skills Are Employers Looking For Now?
51:25 Making Sure Internships Aren’t Just Free Labor
53:55 Wrap-Up

“Why Don’t More Colleges Run Co-Op Programs,” on Future U.

“Northeastern University: A New Model for Higher Education?,” Harvard Business School case study.

“State of the School 2026: Built for What Comes Next,” from USC.

“Students Design and Build a Rocket to Carry Payloads to Space,” from USC.

“Future of Work and Learning Report,” by Adobe.

Melik Khoury is the rare college president whose essay about higher ed went viral. He argued that while college leaders and professors tell themselves their mission is about students, the governance structures and incentives instead serve its workforce. On this episode, Jeff and Michael talk with Khoury about his work transforming the institution he leads, Unity Environmental University. And they hear the challenges he faced in a sector where people often assume that tradition is regulation. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

0:00 - Intro
2:00 - A Turnaround Story at Unity
4:42 - Colleges Are Designed to Serve Employees, Not Students
TKTK - What Sparked a Viral Essay About College Structures
9:03 - How Unity Changed Its Model
13:57 - Can Other Colleges Easily Follow Unity’s Example?
16:20 - When to Stop an Experiment That Isn’t Working
19:17 - Higher Ed Is At a Crossroads
21:58 - How Will AI Change Higher Ed?
26:40 - When Tradition Seems Like Regulation
32:30 - Leaders Are Unprepared for Change
34:40 - Colleges Need Bold Action
37:15 - Presidents Should Use Their Skills As Educators to Sell Change
40:40 - The Best College Leaders Are Leaning In On AI
43:56 - Wrap-Up

“The Lie at the Center of Higher Education,” by Melik Khoury on Substack.

“The Library Card Fallacy,” by Melik Khoury on Substack.

“We Outgrew the Butterfly. Now We Are Building an Octopus,” by Melik Khoury on Substack.

“Reimagining the Academy: Unity Environmental University on Breaking the Higher Ed Mold,” in AcOps Magazine.