In the first bonus episode of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Malcolm Webb shares his experiences of balancing faith and finance on a daily basis in his role as a church accountant.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Malcolm introduces himself, explaining how he became a Christian and the steps that led him to become the accountant of a multi-site church serving Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. [01:48]
• In response to a question from Bex, Malcolm describes some of the dynamics of being the accountant of a church other than the one that he attends himself. [07:01]
• As part of a discussion about tracking donations and the purposes for which they have been given, Bex reminds Malcolm of a time when the response of church members to a special appeal had been so generous that it caused the bank to be in touch to check that nothing untoward was taking place! [11:53]
• Responding to a question from Simon, Malcolm talks about the challenge of balancing his professional responsibility to operate ‘by sight’ with his personal conviction that he has been called to live ‘by faith’. [13:42]
• When asked for a top tip to help with the running of the finance function of a church, Malcolm recommends taking advantage of available technology (especially Excel), streamlining processes and encouraging donors to set up standing orders. [18:48]
• When it comes to training others to manage money well on behalf of a church or charity, Malcolm highlights the importance of developing understanding and an inquiring mind. [21:09]
• Having previously quoted Psalm 50 verse 10 (“for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills”), Malcolm identifies the Parable of the Bags of Gold (Matthew 25.14-30) as another biblical passage that has been influential in shaping his thoughts on money and what our attitude towards it should be. [23:39]
• When asked if he has a story of seeing God’s generosity at work, Malcolm talks about the capacity of the church to initiate social transformation, as illustrated by the cafe that has recently been set up with a clear vision that it will develop its own ‘ministry’ for the benefit of others. [25:27]
• Having been invited to do so by Bex, Malcolm prays for those who are feeling called by God to initiate or take forward a church-related project or idea that requires financial expertise or resources. [27:22]
• Simon talks about the hidden, but vital, role of the church accountant; Malcolm responds by commenting that, in fact, the nature of financial communication these days (eg through Zettle transactions and detailed bank statements) means that he is very aware of what is going on in church life and often feels that he has been given a ‘front row seat’ to observe it. [29:10]
• A second Season 9 bonus episode will follow shortly, also featuring a guest with significant experience of dealing with faith and finance matters in the charity sector. [32:51]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

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In Episode 8 of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss ways in which faith can be put before finance so that vision is turned into provision for churches and charities.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Bex and Simon introduce the topic of vision and provision in church and charity work, noting from the outset that there is a crucial balance that needs to be struck between having faith and being realistic about financial matters. [00:34] Bex gives some biblical examples to illustrate the fact that God provides for his people in many different ways, sometimes through quite unexpected means. [02:45]
• Simon uses his own experience as a church trustee to highlight the key principle of identifying the individual responsibilities that people undertake, observing that this will lead them to weigh faith and finance elements differently from those who fill other roles within a church or charity. [03:31] Simon then develops the point, suggesting that it can be helpful to recognise that complementary contributions can be made by those who are very good at managing money and those who are very good at using money. [05:49]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon talks about the type of discernment that is needed to deal with circumstances in which there is a gap between the scope and vision for a project and the current level of provision. [07:05]
• By inviting listeners to put themselves into the position of someone appealing for money to support a vision, Simon highlights the importance of engagement from those who are responsible for the finances of a church or charity; otherwise, important opportunities can be missed or watered down. [10:37]
• There is a balance to be struck between holding the resources that God has provided lightly and appreciating what has been entrusted to us so that we are diligent and responsible in the ways that we use those resources. [13:22]
• Simon describes ways in which the issues associated with operating a church or charity budget can be tackled, with a structured approach, oversight, discernment, flexibility and good communication being key factors. [15:35]
• There are also legal requirements that have to be fulfilled, so Simon speaks about ways in which a good working relationship can be built up with the charity regulator. [18:22]
• In order to exercise due diligence, there needs to be a plan for bringing a charity to an end, if need be. Simon explains some steps that can be taken to accommodate that possibility. [20:12]
• Responding to a question from Bex, Simon explains how charities can borrow money, for example by taking out a mortgage. [21:45]
• Simon concludes by praying for those already involved in charitable work and also for those with a vision to be involved in activity of that nature in the future. [23:42]
• Bex invites listeners to get in touch with their questions and also with stories about their own experiences of charity and finance. Up next will be a bonus episode, airing in a few weeks’ time, in which Malcolm Webb, a church accountant, will share his experiences of balancing faith and finance on a daily basis. [24:58]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

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In Episode 7 of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss approaches that charities and churches can take to dealing with staffing and other business factors that affect their finances.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Bex starts off the discussion by asking Simon whether all charities and churches need ‘staff’ [00:50] and then goes on to enquire about essential personnel, such as trustees, for a charity. (01:51)
• Simon explains that the nature and vision of a charity will determine if, and when, it should start employing staff. [05:01]
• Simon talks about the advantages for some charities of adopting selected elements of a business organisational structure [06:38] and follows up by outlining key principles that should underpin the approach of a charity that has decided to operate along the lines of a not-for-profit business. [08:41]
• When it comes to employing staff, Simon notes that it can be a complex area to navigate – not least because there are legal requirements and regulatory policies that need to be observed – and therefore it can be a moment in time when it can be very helpful to enlist some expert assistance. [10:38]
• When asked about contracts, Simon explains the circumstances under which a temporary contract can be appropriate and also highlights the importance of good communication in relation to contracts in general. [12:43]
• Simon shares some thoughts about approaches that can be taken in connection with the important task of making decisions regarding appropriate levels of remuneration for staff. [14:17]
• Once staff have been employed, there is an onus on a charity or church to put in place appropriate communication, review, appraisal, training and contract processes. [17:18]
• Given the complex and ever-changing nature of employment regulations and tax arrangements, it quickly becomes highly desirable to have access to an accountant, payroll services, HR personnel etc. [19:33]
• When staffing appointments don’t work out for whatever reason, Simon would recommend taking professional advice (eg from an HR expert or solicitor) as it is very important to adhere to legal and other processes in such situations. [20:49] Once again, the significant role of the trustees is highlighted as they are often to the fore when it comes to ensuring that issues are dealt with in the best and most professional manner possible. [23:59]
• The next episode in this season will focus on ways in which faith can be put before finance so that vision is turned into provision! [24:31]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking on this link.

In Episode 6 of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss how charities and churches can make finances work for specific projects.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Simon starts off the discussion by mentioning a number of different types of projects – including special events, new initiatives and building projects – that can require a specific financial response from a church or charity. [01:49]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon suggests that the first priority should be to establish the timescale of the project as that will determine how best to manage and schedule the communication and financial elements of the venture. Simon notes that it is important to keep the timescale under review and to be willing to make adjustments to it under certain circumstances. [05:23]
• Simon identifies the cost of a project as being another important priority when undertaking a special project. He explains that it is important to undertake a ‘scaling’ process to establish the implications for a charity or church of taking on this new commitment, especially if the target amount is equivalent to a high proportion of the expected annual income. [09:33]
• When asked about how best to predict and control project expenditure, Simon highlights the following points: include some contingency costs in the budget; if possible, increase financial commitments gradually; be realistic and pragmatic when communicating to donors and supporters about money matters. [12:05]
• Simon outlines some people-related considerations that need to be taken into account when planning a project. [13:48]
• Simon explains the issues that can arise from donations that fall into the category of ‘restricted giving’ (ie gifts that have been targeted at a specific outcome or purpose). [16:34] Clear communication is the best way for a charity to avoid unwelcome outcomes in this context while for donors, the answer is to state that their gifts can be used for general purposes / in any way that the charity feels is appropriate. [21:03]
• Simon concludes by referring listeners to Season 5 of this podcast for further content on the topic of ‘Giving’ and also encourages those working in charities to be encouraged and to keep making a difference. [22:38]
• The next episode in this season will focus on approaches that charities and churches can take to dealing with staffing and other business factors. [23:46]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking on this link.

In Episode 5 of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss how, when and with whom charities and churches should talk about money.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Simon starts off by suggesting that when it comes to talking about money, churches and charities should be proactive by initiating conversations, and also by determining their content and direction. [01:41] He adds that money cannot be a ‘secret topic’ for a church or charity for legal reasons and also because transparency and accountability are required in order to demonstrate that donations etc have been managed well and appropriately. [03:13]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon identifies some key elements of communicating well about money: use a variety of methods to communicate because people assimilate facts in different ways; and create a picture (eg by telling stories) of how the money received has been transformed into positive outcomes for individuals and communities. [05:10] On a year-by-year basis, a ‘compare and contrast’ approach can also work well, especially if this includes some visual elements, such as charts and infographics. [07:10]
• On the topic of when and how often should churches and charities talk about money to their supporters / congregations, Simon suggests that the following approach is sensible and balanced: create (and explain) a ‘rhythm’ of regular (but not excessive) financial updates; stick to that cycle; be consistent in the way that information is presented on each occasion. [08:37]
• Simon notes that it is important to understand the reason behind any communication about money as that will affect the way in which it is conveyed and the outcome that is achieved. [11:14] Focusing on why a particular communication is taking place can also help us to ‘stand aside’, review and adapt it in a manner that helps to ensure that the listener receives the desired message in exactly the way that it was intended. [12:44]
• Simon goes on to suggest three key reasons for a charity or church to communicate regularly with its donors: to provide feedback on the benefits that are being achieved through their donations; to keep them informed so that they can be engaged and proactive in their giving; to inspire them to spread the word about the good outcomes being achieved through the donations received so far. [14:15]
• Simon agrees with Bex that a great deal can be achieved when people give their influence by endorsing or praising a cause. [17:01] He also notes that a well-crafted financial report of the type sent out by some charities once a year can be an effective way of getting a positive money message out to potential supporters. [17:55]
• Bex and Simon then discuss the benefits that can arise when a church or charity shares with its staff and volunteers regular, helpful and transparent updates on money matters and the outcomes being achieved. [18:26]
• Bex and Simon talk about how an Appreciation Dinner initiated by Simon has been a means of inviting others to hear about what can be achieved through giving and to get involved themselves. [20:52]
• In addition, partnerships forged through compassion and respect have the potential to achieve more than solo endeavours and can even lead to charities coming together formally in a helpful manner, in certain contexts. [22:11]
• Simon’s final exhortation is not to shy away from talking about money; even in difficult circumstances, it is important to keep communication channels open, and there can still be good stories to tell. [23:39]
• The next episode in this season will consider how charities and churches can make finances work for specific projects. [24:07]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to

In Episode 4 of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss how charities and churches can best manage their budgets and cash flow.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Simon starts off by explaining that managing budgets and cash flow well are vital factors to prioritise for anyone aiming to run a viable charity. [01:10]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon notes that a charity must have its own dedicated bank account; in addition, each charity must also be managed and overseen by a board of trustees. [02:16]
• Simon goes on to explain that effective cash flow is a vital element of any charity: to fulfil its purpose, the charity will need to have money going out of its account as well as having money coming in. A sensible approach is to identify a manageable number of charitable objectives and to focus consistently on meeting those aims. [04:29]
• Bex asks Simon how a charity should aim to balance its financial commitments and charitable obligations with unpredictable income, as experienced by many charities. He comments that a sensible, business-inspired attitude can serve charities well in this context, especially in terms of adopting a flexible approach that includes prudent contingency plans for unexpected necessary expenditure. [06:54]
• Bex notes that the task of balancing expenditure to income can create an additional layer of complexity for faith-based charities because of their belief in the possibility of divine provision. Simon reflects on his own experiences as a trustee of endeavouring to achieve an appropriate balance between trusting in God for successful outcomes and managing a charity’s finances in a responsible and legally compliant manner. He suggests, also, that it should always be borne in mind that the money held by a charity exists not as a goal in its own right but in order to serve a defined purpose. [09:19]
• When it comes to the personnel dealing with a charity’s finances, Simon highlights the importance of ensuring – even in ‘a one person charity’ - that individuals in such roles are well equipped and supported to deal with all relevant tasks and responsibilities. [11:45]
• Effective communication and oversight are also very important to good financial management, especially in situations where there are several budget and sub-budget holders. [13:09]
• Major providers of support and training for those involved in managing a charity’s finances include organisational and local networks, as well as the charity, Stewardship. [14:12]
• Simon provides more detail about how a charity can prepare itself for unexpected financial challenges by planning wisely, anticipating specific scenarios and prioritising effective and targeted communication about best practice and contingency plans. [16:23]
• Another benefit of having good systems and communication in place is that they can enable charities to make sensible adjustments to budgets and financial priorities on an ongoing basis rather than having to wait for an annual review to make such changes. [20:02]
• Simon also draws attention to the need to make objective, evidence-based decisions on current performance and priorities rather than falling for the ‘sunk cost fallacy’ by continuing with tasks and projects simply because so much time and effort has been invested in them already. [22:47]
• Simon encourages churches and faith-based charities not just to rely on money to solve problems but to continually bring situations to God and to seek wisdom regarding how best to focus on creating benefits for people and communities. [25:15]
• Simon concludes by commenting that finances are ‘the beating heart’ of most charities, meaning that charities and churches need to make sure that they...

In the third episode of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss possible revenue sources for charities and churches, and how best to interact with them.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Bex and Simon start off the discussion by identifying possible sources of revenue for charities and churches, including individual donors, companies, grant-making bodies, other charities and government organisations. [01:34]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon talks about possible responsibilities and obligations that may arise when making applications for financial support from sources other than individual donors. [03:54]
• When thinking about how best to attract individual donors, Simon suggests that the primary focus should be on building a community of engaged supporters, with the first task being to identify like-minded people who are most likely to be committed to the vision and purpose of your church or charity. [05:15]
• When asked about what it takes for people to give to a cause, Simon suggests that making a personal connection is vital. People tend to respond positively when it is clear that a charity or church is relevant to them and is making a difference to a situation or issue that is important to them. [08:09] A related point that should not be underestimated is the ability to leverage additional support that can be accomplished by supporters who share enthusiastically with others their passion for a charity or church. [08:56]
• When asked what would encourage her to give to a cause, Bex comments that she responds positively to personal connection and relevance, and also to evidence that a genuine difference is being made. [10:26] Factors that tend to inhibit her from giving include a ‘cold approach’ on the doorstep that insists on an immediate response or an appeal for money that disregards other aspects of an individual’s involvement with a charity. [11:48] Simon goes on to speak about the importance of integrity and transparency when making such approaches. [12:36]
• Simon talks about how individuals can give to charities, including the following points: cash donations; regular giving through bank transfers / standing orders; lump sums; and fundraising activities. [14:48]
• Two tax-efficient ways to give to charity are to leave a legacy in your will [17:09] and to take advantage of gift aid. [19:34]
• Simon goes on to explain how matching donation schemes work [20:51], and he also highlights the advantages of planned spontaneous giving in that context. [21:55]
• If a charity is faced with the unwelcome prospect of running out of money, the following two approaches can be helpful: try to maximise current income sources; ensure that you abide by charity legislation and that you have set up a contingency plan for this kind of circumstance. [22:39]
• The next episode in this season will focus on budgeting and cash flow issues that can arise when managing the finances of a church or charity. [25:02]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking on this link.

In the second episode of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Simon and Bex discuss key financial principles and first steps for charities and churches that are at an early stage of their development.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• First of all, Simon explains that there are various legal and regulatory requirements that need to be fulfilled when setting up a charity. These include compliance with HMRC guidelines, providing annual accounts and following legal advice when communicating about the charity and initiating its activities. [02:05]
• Secondly, Simon emphasises the need to ensure, through internal communication, that the charity meets the requirements of being a ‘going concern’. This process includes various key activities, including the following tasks: setting budgets; identifying goals, objectives and priorities; monitoring and managing cash flow; responding in a timely and effective manner to changes in circumstances. [04:09]
• Simon notes that mistakes and difficulties can arise within charities and churches simply because those involved are so often volunteers or enthusiasts who do not have the business skills and experience that would be helpful when dealing with some of the challenges that can arise. It can be important, therefore, to ensure that people are allocated to appropriate roles, good internal communication is facilitated (eg regarding budgets), and external help is sought when required. [11:06]
• Thirdly, communication with external parties - such as supporters, volunteers and donors - should always be a top priority for charities, not least because they are so reliant on the support of the individuals in these groups if they, and their activities, are going to flourish. Examples that Simon provides to illustrate this point include a presentation made to a bank when requesting a mortgage and explaining to a congregation what a difference it can make to church finances if giving is done through standing order rather than on an ad hoc basis. [13:54]
• Bex notes the impact that it can make when a charity identifies and celebrates life-changing outcomes that have been made possible by supporters’ donations. [16:41] This prompts Simon to mention the concept of ‘anchoring bias’ and that it can be important for a charity or church to gauge the ‘culture’, circumstances and expectations of its audience when putting out communications. [17:52]
• In response to a question from Bex, Simon shares some thoughts on how a charity or church might need to adopt different approaches and styles when endeavouring to make requests for donations in a way that will take account of the whole spectrum of financial ability to give within an audience. [19:59]
• Simon rounds off his comments by encouraging those involved in church or charity finances to seek out the help and resources that are out there and to concentrate on building up a vibrant community of loyal and committed supporters. [23:11]
• The next episode in this season will consider the various ways in which churches and charities can acquire the money that they require to fund their activities. [25:10]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking on