This is Sara, and I remember the time 20 years ago when I got schooled by a psychoanalyst. It must have been the fall, because I was supremely agitated that I was having to write, design, and send holiday cards out to a huge list of people all by myself, without the help of my fiancé. If you know me, you know that cards were a staple of my winter growing up, with cards from my parents’ friends stapled onto long felt ribbons hanging down each doorway, surrounding us with love and smiling faces for weeks on end. The therapist asked if I could just not do them, if it was annoying me so much, and my instant fury was revealed: Are you kidding? I have to send these cards out, it’s the nice thing to do!! Cut to the point, and it’s this - nice according to who? Nice for whom? Certainly not nice for me if I were going to be resentful and pissy about it. I came to terms with the fact that I actually just really enjoyed writing and sending cards out to people who warmed my heart that year, and that my partner wasn’t a nice person for not agreeing to send these cards out with me.

But it leads us to ask this. What do we mean by niceness - and what, more importantly, is its not-as-related-as-it-seems and so much more important character trait of kindness? How can understanding this difference and leaning into kindness help us be better people?

What to listen for:

• How a medically trained doctor got into a “touchy-feely” thing like kindness

• The shockingly tremendous impact that kindness has on our individual health and our societal wellbeing

• What’s the difference between niceness vs kindness?

• Ways to begin practicing more kindness

About our guest:

Kelli Harding, MD, MPH, is dedicated to creating a kinder and healthier world for all. An expert in mental health, medicine, and public health, she teaches at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons (VP&S) in New York City and is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, also boarded in the sub-specialty of consultation-liaison psychiatry or psychosomatic (mind-body) medicine. Known for making complex scientific research understandable to general audiences, she’s the author of the critically acclaimed book The Rabbit Effect: Live Longer, Happier, and Healthier with the Groundbreaking Science of Kindness. Dr. Harding has appeared on Today, Good Morning America, BBC, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Prevention, LA Times, Oprah Magazine, Parents, Medscape, Sesame Street Workshop, and The World Economic Forum. Additionally, she has spoken at global events at the United Nations and World Happiness Summits and served on the Boards of Organizations such as the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and social media platform Nextdoor. Dr. Harding lives in New York City with her husband and three sons—an eleventh-grader, a ninth-grader, and a sixth-grader, and beloved rescue pup, Athena.

Her next book, Different, co-authored with Sara Blanchard, will be out in Fall 2026.

Website kellihardingmd.com

LinkedIn Kelli Harding MD MPH

Instagram @kellihardingmd

One of the ways that we believe we can be better humans is to actually listen to each other - not just nod along when we watch people’s mouths move, or wait impatiently for someone to finish their thought before we can jump in and say what we’ve been dying to say - but actually listen to what they’re saying, take a moment to reflect on that, and respond. Perhaps you ask a clarifying question, perhaps you share a reflection, perhaps you simply agree and ask for more details. Regardless of your response, if you’re really listening, people will know and will see you in a better light as a result.

If you’re curious about how to be a better listener, we offer two experts on the topic who help us understand: What do you mean by radical listening?

What to listen for:

• Why listening better makes you a better human

• Six skills important to growing your ability to listen better

• The role culture can play in listening and communication

• What environment is most conducive to listening, and what YOU can do to be a better listener

About the guests:

Dr. Robert Biswas-Diener is a researcher, author, and consultant with 75 peer-reviewed academic articles with over 27,000 citations. His previous books include The Upside of Your Dark Side (New York Times Bestseller, 2014), and the 2008 PROSE Award winner, Happiness. He has presented keynotes to Lululemon, Deloitte, Humana, AARP, The World Bank, and others. In 2024, Thinkers50 named Robert one of the “50 Most Influential Executive Coaches in the World”. He lives in Portland, Oregon, enjoying drawing and rock climbing.

Prof. Christian van Nieuwerburgh (PhD) is an academic, consultant, and executive coach. He is Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology at the Centre for Positive Health Sciences at RCSI University of Medicine and Health Sciences (Ireland) and Consulting Professor for Growth Coaching International, a provider of coach training and consultancy for the education sector. In recognition of his contributions to the fields of positive psychology and coaching, he is Principal Fellow

of the Centre for Wellbeing Science at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education of the University of Melbourne (Australia) and Honorary CollectivEd Fellow of the Carnegie School of Education at Leeds Beckett University (UK). Christian is a certified executive coach and is well published in the academic literature on the topics of coaching and positive psychology. He has authored, co-authored, and edited numerous books in the field of coaching, most notably An Introduction to Coaching Skills: A Practical Guide (2014, 2016, 2020). His latest books are Your Essential Guide to Effective Reflective Practice (2025, with David Love) and Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection (2025, with Robert Biswas-

Diener).

Follow Christian on Instagram (@coachonamotorcycle), on his YouTube channel (@coachonamotorcycle), and on his website (coachonamotorcycle.com).

We have a big announcement! We have rebranded and are now known as the podcast, What Do You Mean By That?

If you’ve listened to our former show, Dear White Women, you know that What do you mean by that? has been one of our favorite questions to use to interrupt people in a healthy way, spur on conversation, and cue ourselves to listen. Our purpose has always been to help our society realize that it’s all of us or none of us. That a world that is good for those who are most systematically oppressed is a world that’s good for all of us. After 272 episodes, we’ve come to understand just how intertwined the systems are that hold us together and keep us apart.

This is a show dedicated to helping folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us - even when information is flying at us at warp speed. We will not let the fire hose overwhelm us. Whether it’s about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, our community consists of people who want to be better humans, and we want to explore all the conversations in a succinct way so we can cut to the chase and help us all be better, together, for all of us.

We can’t wait to keep asking, along with you: What do you mean by that?

What to listen for:

• What this new show - What Do You Mean By That? - stands for and is about

• Why we rebranded, including the history of our former podcast Dear White Women

• The commitment we have to getting in front of people to emphasize our message that it’s all of us, or none of us - and we want all of us to feel like we belong and can thrive.

Picture a successful business leader, and experience says you’re most likely to be picturing a white male right now. Similarly, the realm of business books has been dominated by white males for so, so long - which is why we find it incredibly refreshing to talk with someone who does NOT fit that mold and has an unforgettable presence all the same.

What to listen for:

• What made Lorraine K Lee write the book Unforgettable Presence?

• The many layers of creating a strong presence, including cultural upbringing, introversion vs extraversion, and more

• The top three tips on where to start creating your authentic presence

• Advice to the Asian woman middle manager during AANHPI month - find a sponsor!

About our guest:

Lorraine K. Lee is a keynote speaker, best-selling author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career, and instructor with LinkedIn Learning and Stanford. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice with hundreds of thousands of followers and has a decade of experience leading editorial teams at top tech firms. Her insights have appeared in outlets such as CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fast Company.

By the time a human is six years old, they’re usually in formal schooling with wide-open minds, ready to learn. You’re learning that you can’t bring peanut butter in because some classmates might be allergic to peanuts (which shows you how to be a considerate citizen); you’re learning that you can’t call Suzie an idiot (because words have power); that baking soda and vinegar can propel that paper mache volcano (as in, science is real); and that when adults say “maybe” as in “maybe we’ll go to get ice cream for lunch” they’re not always telling the truth (developing our critical thinking).

Why all this talk about six-year-olds? Well, as you might have guessed, here at Dear White Women, we’re wrapping up year SIX of this podcast, which makes us, as a platform, similar in many ways to that small human that we were just talking about. A lot of this has been a journey in those skills for us, and, hopefully, you, too, have learned a little bit along this journey of 270 episodes and counting.

Here is to where we’ve been, and where we’re going as we move into our SEVENTH year of podcasting. And to everyone asking, “So, you done now?” Given everything that’s going on in the world (and specifically in the United States since January 20, 2025), we’ve got a never-ending supply of topics. Suffice it to say, we’ve still got a lot more to talk about, with each other, and with you - and we’ll soon be sharing with you how we’re changing this platform to give us the ability to say even more. Thanks, as always, for listening.

What to listen for:

• How and why we started this podcast

• Our personal whys - and what keeps us going, especially over this last year

• Favorite episodes from this last year

• How you can bring us in to speak with your organizations about how to have difficult conversations, and/or why belonging still matters - we each individually, and together, do lots of speaking engagements

• Subscribe to the show to keep updated on the changes coming to our platform!

Follow Dear White Women on your favorite podcast platform, so you don’t miss these conversations!

Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Instagram and get more by joining our email list.

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Even if you’re not a lawyer, the challenge that this administration is mounting to the rule of law affects you, too. When the president challenges the judiciary, when we as a country go after lawyers simply for doing their actual jobs, it hurts all of us. What’s happening now is weakening our judicial branch and centering power in the executive branch. Maybe you’ve heard the term “unitary executive”? This basically means that the jobs of the other two branches, or the other two branches of government themselves, can be told what to do by the President, as the power becomes consolidated solely in that branch. As we are recording this, Cory Booker is almost 20 hours into the third-longest speech on the Senate floor, and THAT is the fire that we need from Congress and the legislative branch, which has been largely lacking until now in this triangle of power. But we need also accountability in order for democracy to work: Due process keeps us from disappearing people in the night, the right to representation keeps the President from telling law firms and prosecutors who they can represent, and our current system, if we let it, is heading towards that unitary executive, which is basically a dictatorship.

So it was wonderful to speak with Debbie Hines, a former prosecutor, assistant state attorney general, and trial attorney, on her take on what’s not only happening in our current administration, but how we can conceptualize the role of our legal system in our world, and how we can fight for a better, more expansive role for the judiciary and the justice system rather than playing small and bending the knee to those who would destroy it.

What to listen for:

• A clear explanation for the different layers of lawyers who work to keep our communities abiding by the rule of law - from trial attorneys to prosecutors to attorneys general

• Reflections and contextualizing what is happening with our current administration

• What’s broken about our current legal system

• How each of us can take action towards changing it

Recommendations:

• Visit local courts to see how prosecutors work

• Meeting with people who have encountered the prosecutorial system and/or are incarcerated → listen to Marcus Bullock episodes

• Educate family, friends, coworkers based on info in this book – support diversion, restorative justice, and community-based programs, as many have better recidivism rates

• Decline to prosecute 13 million misdemeanor cases annually (80% of criminal cases prosecuted in state courts); instead, support the idea of punching up and go after economic fraud, things that hurt more people

About Debbie: Former Baltimore prosecutor, Assistant Attorney General for the State of Maryland, and trial attorney Debbie Hines is an advocate for racial equity in the criminal justice system. She maintains a private law practice focused on civil and criminal litigation in Washington, DC. A leading voice in the discourse of criminal justice and race, Hines is often called on by media networks for legal commentary.

Other resources:

• Episodes #83 + 84 with Marcus Bullock

• Episode #37: 99 Problems and the Criminal Justice System

• Episode #41 with Ji Seon Song

Between the time when we recorded this episode and this introduction, so many of our learning institutions, including the Department of Education and the Institute of Museum and Library Services, are being systematically or haphazardly dismantled at the whim of our current President(s). This may send us into a spiral of despair - or, may even freeze us in place and render us unable to act.

But … what if these challenges brought us into the fight, instead?

Our two guests on this episode co-founded organizations designed to do just that - fight back. They are just like you and me, except they saw what was wrong in their communities and decided to do something about it. We hope that you listen to Gaby and Lissette’s stories in this episode and share them far and wide.

We are not powerless. We, the people, can do so much. And now is the time: find what you love, and fight for it in your communities. All of us, or none of us. And we need books, and the truth, now more than ever.

What to listen for:

• Which (now banned) books shaped early life in important ways for Gaby and Lisette

• How each of them started their respective organizations and the “why” behind doing so

• What to do to support their work, as well as get involved/start your own fight

About Lissette:

Lissette Fernandez, of Miami, Florida, is the co-founder of Moms for Libros, a nonprofit, nonpartisan public education advocacy (because a good quality education should be a nonpartisan issue). As a mother of two, she is dedicated to ensuring that all children have access to a high-quality, equitable education.

About Gaby:

Gaby Diaz-Vendrell is a senior at Barnard College, double majoring in psychology and human rights with a minor in education. She began organizing at 14 in response to the 2018 Parkland shooting and has since worked with Women’s March, Florida Action Network, Florida N.O.W., and other public interest organizations. In 2024, Diaz-Vendrell founded Our Florida, a coalition of parents, students, and educators working on The Protect Florida Classrooms Act, a bill designed to challenge Florida's arbitrary book bans through civil rights law. At her core, she is dedicated to building a world where the dignity of every human is respected, justice prevails, and systems uplift rather than oppress.