This is Sara, and I remember the time 20 years ago when I got schooled by a psychoanalyst. It must have been the fall, because I was supremely agitated that I was having to write, design, and send holiday cards out to a huge list of people all by myself, without the help of my fiancé. If you know me, you know that cards were a staple of my winter growing up, with cards from my parents’ friends stapled onto long felt ribbons hanging down each doorway, surrounding us with love and smiling faces for weeks on end. The therapist asked if I could just not do them, if it was annoying me so much, and my instant fury was revealed: Are you kidding? I have to send these cards out, it’s the nice thing to do!! Cut to the point, and it’s this - nice according to who? Nice for whom? Certainly not nice for me if I were going to be resentful and pissy about it. I came to terms with the fact that I actually just really enjoyed writing and sending cards out to people who warmed my heart that year, and that my partner wasn’t a nice person for not agreeing to send these cards out with me.

But it leads us to ask this. What do we mean by niceness - and what, more importantly, is its not-as-related-as-it-seems and so much more important character trait of kindness? How can understanding this difference and leaning into kindness help us be better people?

What to listen for:

• How a medically trained doctor got into a “touchy-feely” thing like kindness

• The shockingly tremendous impact that kindness has on our individual health and our societal wellbeing

• What’s the difference between niceness vs kindness?

• Ways to begin practicing more kindness

About our guest:

Kelli Harding, MD, MPH, is dedicated to creating a kinder and healthier world for all. An expert in mental health, medicine, and public health, she teaches at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons (VP&S) in New York City and is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, also boarded in the sub-specialty of consultation-liaison psychiatry or psychosomatic (mind-body) medicine. Known for making complex scientific research understandable to general audiences, she’s the author of the critically acclaimed book The Rabbit Effect: Live Longer, Happier, and Healthier with the Groundbreaking Science of Kindness. Dr. Harding has appeared on Today, Good Morning America, BBC, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Prevention, LA Times, Oprah Magazine, Parents, Medscape, Sesame Street Workshop, and The World Economic Forum. Additionally, she has spoken at global events at the United Nations and World Happiness Summits and served on the Boards of Organizations such as the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) and social media platform Nextdoor. Dr. Harding lives in New York City with her husband and three sons—an eleventh-grader, a ninth-grader, and a sixth-grader, and beloved rescue pup, Athena.

Her next book, Different, co-authored with Sara Blanchard, will be out in Fall 2026.

Website kellihardingmd.com

LinkedIn Kelli Harding MD MPH

Instagram @kellihardingmd

One of the ways that we believe we can be better humans is to actually listen to each other - not just nod along when we watch people’s mouths move, or wait impatiently for someone to finish their thought before we can jump in and say what we’ve been dying to say - but actually listen to what they’re saying, take a moment to reflect on that, and respond. Perhaps you ask a clarifying question, perhaps you share a reflection, perhaps you simply agree and ask for more details. Regardless of your response, if you’re really listening, people will know and will see you in a better light as a result.

If you’re curious about how to be a better listener, we offer two experts on the topic who help us understand: What do you mean by radical listening?

What to listen for:

• Why listening better makes you a better human

• Six skills important to growing your ability to listen better

• The role culture can play in listening and communication

• What environment is most conducive to listening, and what YOU can do to be a better listener

About the guests:

Dr. Robert Biswas-Diener is a researcher, author, and consultant with 75 peer-reviewed academic articles with over 27,000 citations. His previous books include The Upside of Your Dark Side (New York Times Bestseller, 2014), and the 2008 PROSE Award winner, Happiness. He has presented keynotes to Lululemon, Deloitte, Humana, AARP, The World Bank, and others. In 2024, Thinkers50 named Robert one of the “50 Most Influential Executive Coaches in the World”. He lives in Portland, Oregon, enjoying drawing and rock climbing.

Prof. Christian van Nieuwerburgh (PhD) is an academic, consultant, and executive coach. He is Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology at the Centre for Positive Health Sciences at RCSI University of Medicine and Health Sciences (Ireland) and Consulting Professor for Growth Coaching International, a provider of coach training and consultancy for the education sector. In recognition of his contributions to the fields of positive psychology and coaching, he is Principal Fellow

of the Centre for Wellbeing Science at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education of the University of Melbourne (Australia) and Honorary CollectivEd Fellow of the Carnegie School of Education at Leeds Beckett University (UK). Christian is a certified executive coach and is well published in the academic literature on the topics of coaching and positive psychology. He has authored, co-authored, and edited numerous books in the field of coaching, most notably An Introduction to Coaching Skills: A Practical Guide (2014, 2016, 2020). His latest books are Your Essential Guide to Effective Reflective Practice (2025, with David Love) and Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection (2025, with Robert Biswas-

Diener).

Follow Christian on Instagram (@coachonamotorcycle), on his YouTube channel (@coachonamotorcycle), and on his website (coachonamotorcycle.com).

We have a big announcement! We have rebranded and are now known as the podcast, What Do You Mean By That?

If you’ve listened to our former show, Dear White Women, you know that What do you mean by that? has been one of our favorite questions to use to interrupt people in a healthy way, spur on conversation, and cue ourselves to listen. Our purpose has always been to help our society realize that it’s all of us or none of us. That a world that is good for those who are most systematically oppressed is a world that’s good for all of us. After 272 episodes, we’ve come to understand just how intertwined the systems are that hold us together and keep us apart.

This is a show dedicated to helping folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us - even when information is flying at us at warp speed. We will not let the fire hose overwhelm us. Whether it’s about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, our community consists of people who want to be better humans, and we want to explore all the conversations in a succinct way so we can cut to the chase and help us all be better, together, for all of us.

We can’t wait to keep asking, along with you: What do you mean by that?

What to listen for:

• What this new show - What Do You Mean By That? - stands for and is about

• Why we rebranded, including the history of our former podcast Dear White Women

• The commitment we have to getting in front of people to emphasize our message that it’s all of us, or none of us - and we want all of us to feel like we belong and can thrive.