In this episode, Brandi and AJ share how unanswered questions, painful discovery, and an honest search for truth led them from “grinding for godhood” in Mormonism to encountering the real Jesus of the Bible.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

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Brandi and AJ were doing everything “right.” They were BYU grads, married, building a life, raising kids, and fully committed to the LDS vision of a faithful future. AJ describes it like “grinding for godhood”—a life built on steps, worthiness, temple goals, and constant striving. But then the foundation started to crack.

For AJ, some of the doctrinal history raised unsettling questions (including ideas like “blood atonement,” which they mention they’ll unpack later). For Brandi, the tipping point was watching changes in the LDS church after COVID and feeling like the church was shifting in a more progressive direction. She tried to address it the way a devoted member would: she wrote letters to Salt Lake City headquarters about what she saw as inconsistency—especially related to abortion and human life. She wasn’t trying to tear anything down. She genuinely believed the LDS church was true, and she wanted it to be consistent.

But the response felt dismissive—more like a polite pat on the head than a meaningful engagement. That frustration pushed them into a place they never thought they’d go: researching.

Brandi makes an important clarification: they weren’t hunting for “gotcha” moments. They didn’t go searching because they assumed the church was false. In fact, they needed it to be true. That’s why reading outside sources felt dangerous. AJ describes that fear as avoiding the “cognitive dissonance fire”—because their hearts were convinced, and they didn’t want their minds persuaded that everything was a lie.

But once they started reading, the “genie” didn’t go back in the bottle.

They looked at sources like MormonThink because it included multiple perspectives—both critical claims and apologetic responses. That felt more balanced. Still, it wasn’t official, and Brandi felt guilty even being there. Eventually, as more historical issues piled up (like multiple First Vision accounts, questions surrounding the Book of Abraham, and other details they had never been taught), Brandi felt desperate for the church itself to clarify things. So they turned to the Gospel Topics Essays—official LDS content hosted on the LDS website.

That’s where everything shifted.

Instead of restoring confidence, the essays confirmed key issues and, in Brandi’s view, exposed more “spin” than clarity. For the first time, she seriously wrestled with the question: What if the church isn’t true?

AJ explains how people often survive early doubts by “nuancing” their faith—making room for uncomfortable data while keeping the system intact. But eventually, they reached a crossroads: Would they live in a...

Big Idea: Jesus Christ is not just a chapter in the story of God; He is the Author, the Hero, and the Ending. When we see Jesus for who He truly is, every other priority in our lives finds its proper place.

Today we begin a nine-week journey through the Book of Hebrews, a letter written to magnify the greatness of Jesus Christ. Hebrews isn’t primarily about religious rules, moral improvement, or spiritual techniques. It’s about Jesus—who He is and what He has done. Everything else flows from that foundation.

The original audience was likely Jewish Christians living under Roman rule, facing intense persecution. As pressure mounted, many were tempted to abandon their faith in Jesus and return to the familiarity and safety of traditional Judaism. Hebrews speaks directly into that tension with one clear message: Jesus is greater than anyone or anything that came before Him. To walk away from Him would be to walk away from the fulfillment of all God’s promises.

The author of Hebrews remains anonymous, one of the great mysteries of the New Testament. While Paul may have influenced it, the writing style is far more polished and rhetorically sophisticated than Paul’s letters. Hebrews chapter 1 proves this immediately. Verses 1–4 form a single, majestic sentence in the original Greek—an exordium, designed to grab attention with both beauty and weight.

Hebrews 1:1–4 (NLT) sets the stage:

In the Old Testament, God spoke in fragments—a dream here, a burning bush there, a prophet’s warning along the way. But in Jesus, God didn’t just send messages; He sent the Message. This is Christology—the study of the person and work of Jesus Christ—and Hebrews wastes no time getting to the point.

In verses 2–3, the author unleashes a rapid-fire description of Jesus using seven distinct attributes. In Scripture, the number seven represents completeness and perfection. Together, these form a full portrait of the Son.

Jesus is the Heir—the goal of history. God has promised everything to Him as an inheritance. History is not random; it is moving toward the coronation of King Jesus. He is the “why” behind all creation.

Jesus is the Creator—the architect of reality. Through Him, God made the universe. Jesus is not a created being; He is the source of all things. Nothing exists apart from His will.

Jesus is the Radiance—the shining glory of God. He doesn’t merely reflect God’s glory like the moon reflects sunlight; He radiates it. The Son is the visible manifestation of the invisible God—“Light from Light.”

Jesus is the Expression—the exact imprint of God’s nature. The Greek word charaktēr refers to a stamp or seal. Jesus doesn’t resemble God; He perfectly represents Him. To see Jesus is to see God.

Jesus is the Sustainer—the glue of the cosmos. He holds everything together by the power of His word. The universe doesn’t persist on autopilot; it endures because Jesus commands it to.

Jesus is the Savior—the cleanser of sin. When He purified us from our sins, the work was finished. Unlike Old Testament priests who never sat down, Jesus completed the work once for all.

Finally, Jesus is the Ruler—the seated King. He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven, a position of total authority. The victory is won.

Hebrews 1:4 reminds us that Jesus is far greater than angels, traditions, or anything else we might be tempted to trust. For believers facing hardship, this truth re-centers everything.

The message of Hebrews is clear:...

In this episode, Bryan sits down with Brandi and AJ to hear how a lifetime of devotion to Mormon exaltation turned into what they call “grinding for godhood”—a relentless pursuit of worthiness, temple marriage, and eternal approval. Their story reveals the hidden pressure of a works-based faith and sets the stage for how God began to unravel everything they thought was true.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

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Check out Brandi's Book: The Journey to Jesus: Finding Christ after Leaving Mormonism

In this episode, Bryan talks with Brandi and AJ, two former Mormons who were fully committed to their faith from childhood. Brandi introduces a phrase that captures their experience perfectly: “grinding for godhood.” It describes a life shaped by striving—keeping covenants, qualifying for temple blessings, and doing everything necessary to reach exaltation.

Brandi explains that from a young age she believed her purpose was to tap into her divine nature and eventually become like God. This wasn’t driven by ego or a desire to be worshiped. It felt like obligation—this is what I was created for, and I have to take it seriously.

AJ felt the same pressure. The temple represented the ultimate goal: exaltation, eternal family, and eternal progression. Getting to the temple—and staying worthy—was everything.

For Brandi, godhood wasn’t just a “male” idea. She fully expected to become like a “Heavenly Mother,” even though Heavenly Mother was rarely discussed in Mormonism. Eternity was tied to temple marriage, which meant finding the right husband wasn’t optional—it was essential.

That belief raised the stakes on dating, college decisions, and life itself.

AJ grew up in Utah, where Mormonism was normal and rarely questioned. Brandi grew up in California, constantly interacting with non-Mormons and Christians who challenged her beliefs. Instead of weakening her faith, that pressure made her more confident and outspoken.

Brandi actively debated theology, defended the Restoration, and gave Book of Mormons to friends and teachers—believing she was sharing something life-changing.

At BYU Provo, the urgency intensified. Brandi describes the dating culture as competitive and...

In this episode, Bryan and Layne show why the Holy Spirit isn’t a reward you earn or a feeling you chase—but God’s personal presence given to everyone who trusts in the real Jesus.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

Donate Now

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In the last episode, we talked about how a biblical church doesn’t need one “capital P” Prophet to speak for God. Jesus didn’t set up His church to be led by a single man with exclusive access to heaven’s messages. Instead, the book of Acts shows something radically different: God gives His Holy Spirit to every believer, revealing truth through Scripture and confirming it through the people of God.

But here’s the question that hits closer to home: How does the Holy Spirit work on a personal level?

That’s where this conversation gets especially helpful—because Layne lived for 40 years inside Mormonism, where the Holy Spirit is often treated like something you earn, maintain, or even lose. And if you grew up LDS, you know the anxiety: Do I have the Holy Ghost? Did I lose it? Am I worthy enough today?

In Mormon teaching, people are told about the “gift of the Holy Ghost,” along with ideas like “confirmations,” “warm feelings,” and the famous “burning in the bosom.” It’s often described as something that comes after baptism, through priesthood hands, and after ongoing obedience and ordinances.

But here’s the problem: many Latter-day Saints live with what Layne calls Holy Spirit insecurity.

You might feel something during prayer or a testimony meeting—then you mess up later and wonder if God is gone. The whole cycle can become spiritually exhausting, emotionally draining, and mentally confusing. Instead of a steady relationship with God, you’re chasing a spiritual signal that feels like it comes and goes.

One of the practical moments in this episode is when the guys stop and talk about pronouns—because it reveals something deeper.

In biblical Christianity, the Holy Spirit isn’t an impersonal force. He is a person. Not a “thing” or “energy” or “vibe.” He has personhood. That’s why Christians speak of Him as “He,” not because the Spirit has a gender, but because He’s personal—God Himself dwelling in believers.

Mormonism may technically describe the Holy Ghost as a person, but it’s within a very different framework: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as separate beings (and functionally separate gods). That changes everything. Instead of God’s direct presence, the Holy Ghost becomes more like a messenger—someone sent—while leaving people unsure what God the Father is doing, and unsure whether they can really trust what they’re experiencing.

A big “aha” in this conversation is how Mormon “spiritual feelings” often function differently...

In this episode, Bryan and Layne show from Acts and the Old Testament that Jesus didn’t set up His church to be led by “one guy,” but by the Holy Spirit—giving every believer direct access to God with Jesus as the Head.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

Donate Now

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Many people assume that if God is real, and if the church matters, then God must lead His people through one central human authority—one prophet, one president, one pope, one voice you can always trust. That’s a natural assumption, especially if you grew up in a system where spiritual certainty came from the top down.

In Mormonism, that “one guy” model is baked into the culture. You’re taught to trust the prophet’s voice. You stand when he enters. You sing songs about him. You learn, subtly, to confuse the voice of the Spirit with the voice of a leader. And over time, it can become so normal that you don’t even notice what’s happening: you start substituting God’s voice for the voice of man.

But here’s the key question: Is that how Jesus set up His church to work?

When we open the Bible, the answer is clear—no. Jesus did not design His church to depend on one human “main character” who can’t be questioned. Instead, Jesus promised something far more personal, more powerful, and more stable: He would lead His church by the Holy Spirit, with Jesus as the Head.

Jesus’ Blueprint Starts in Acts

If you want to understand how God leads the church, you have to start in Acts 1:8. Right before Jesus ascends to heaven, He gives His disciples their mission: they will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes, and they will be His witnesses—starting in Jerusalem and spreading outward to the ends of the earth. Acts 1:8

Notice what’s missing: Jesus doesn’t single out Peter and say, “I’ll speak through him now.” He doesn’t announce an ongoing chain of centralized authority. Instead, He points them to the Spirit’s power and the global mission ahead.

Then comes Acts 2, and it’s one of the most important moments in church history. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit comes—not on one leader—but on all believers gathered together. That’s the point. The Spirit is not reserved for one office or one “elite” class. God’s presence is now available to every follower of Jesus. Acts 2:1-4

That alone challenges the entire “one guy” model.

The Apostles Were a Foundation, Not a Forever Office

Mormons and Catholics both appeal to the idea of apostolic succession. But the New Testament treats the original apostles as something unique: a foundation.

Paul says the church is “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets.” Ephesians 2:20

A foundation is laid once. You don’t rebuild it every generation.

Acts itself supports this. After Judas dies (after betraying Jesus), the apostles replace him to restore the Twelve. Acts 1:15-26 But later, when James is martyred, the church...

In this episode, Bryan and Layne explore how the Bible teaches direct access to God through Jesus, not through prophets or religious institutions, using the torn temple veil as the key turning point. Drawing from Layne’s journey out of Mormonism, they explain why trusting the Holy Spirit over human authority leads to true freedom.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

Donate Now

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Layne (a former Mormon of 40 years) and Bryan talk about what access to God looks like in Mormonism compared to biblical Christianity. The big contrast: Mormonism tends to route access through an institution and its leaders, while the Bible teaches direct access to God through Jesus, guided by the Holy Spirit.

They anchor the whole conversation in a key moment from the crucifixion: when Jesus died, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51). That wasn’t just a detail in the story—it was God’s way of saying, “The separation is gone. The way is open.”

Layne describes growing up Mormon with a built-in ladder of authority—bishop, stake president, prophet—where “hearing from God” felt filtered through leadership. Bryan points out that the idea of having a personal relationship with Jesus often feels like “Christian language,” not the normal relational emphasis inside Mormon culture.

In the Old Testament temple system, the veil represented a barrier between people and God’s presence. Only the high priest could pass through, and only once a year, with a sacrifice.

But when Jesus died, God tore the veil Himself—from top to bottom—showing that man didn’t open the way; God did. The cross didn’t just pay for sin. It also removed the whole structure of “you need someone else to get you to God.”

They walk through the New Testament idea that God used prophets “in times past,” but something changes after Jesus (Hebrews 1:1–2). Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide believers into truth (John 16:13). Layne puts it plainly: dependence on a prophet is replaced by direct access through Jesus and the indwelling Spirit.

Even if it’s not biblical, a prophet can feel comforting because he’s visible, official, and “safe.” Bryan compares it to legalism: rules feel helpful because they’re clear and controllable—but clarity isn’t the same thing as truth. Layne agrees: when a system is built on control, it can’t survive if people learn they can truly hear and trust God directly.

They address a common objection: If you don’t have a prophet, won’t everything fall apart? Their answer: biblical Christianity still values church, leadership, and community—but a pastor isn’t a prophet, and no leader gets to trump Scripture. The moment any person

Comparison is the silent killer of joy. It steals your confidence, shifts your focus, and leaves you spiritually drained. In this episode, we dive into 1 Samuel 18 to look at the lives of Saul and David. David’s victory over Goliath should have been a moment of national unity, but instead, it exposed the dangerous power of comparison in King Saul’s heart.

Join us as we explore how to break free from the "sideways energy" of jealousy and find true confidence in your identity in Christ.

1. Comparison Strangles Your Joy: Saul had every reason to celebrate, but he let a song of praise for David turn into personal insecurity. When we look sideways at what others have, we forget the goodness God has already given us.
2. Comparison Stunts Your Growth: Jealousy is like "cancer in the bones" (Proverbs 14:30). It keeps you from being mentored by or mentoring others because you view everyone as a threat rather than a partner in God’s kingdom.
3. Comparison Steals Your Focus: You cannot follow Jesus effectively while watching someone else's calling. What you stare at is what you steer toward—if you stare at others' success, you'll steer toward envy.

[00:00] The Celebration That Turned Into Jealousy David’s victory was celebrated by the nation, but Saul fixated on the lyrics: "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his ten thousands!" (1 Samuel 18:7). Saul heard a threat where he should have heard a victory for God.

[04:30] The Modern Comparison Trap Social media has made comparison effortless. We discuss how "scrolling" affects our spiritual health and why Psalm 34:10 is the antidote: "Those who seek the Lord will lack no good thing."

[09:15] Sideways Energy Saul spent more time watching David than ruling his kingdom. We look at Jesus’ words to Peter in John 21:22: "What is that to you? As for you, follow me."

[15:45] From Competition to Confidence The Gospel replaces insecurity with identity. Like the Apostle John, we can move from chasing status to resting in the love of the Father (1 John 3:1).

1. 1 Samuel 18:7-12 – Saul’s jealousy of David.
2. Psalm 34:10 – Lacking no good thing in the Lord.
3. Proverbs 14:30 – The physical and spiritual toll of jealousy.
4. John 21:22 – Jesus’ command to focus on our own walk.
5. 1 John 3:1 – Our identity as children of God.

1. Learn more about David’s life and biblical leadership at pursueGOD.org.
2. Start a Conversation: Use this episode to talk with a friend or small group. Find the full discussion guide at pursueGOD.org/david.

In this episode of the PursueGOD podcast, we dive into the life of David to discover a fundamental truth: God’s promises always come with a process. Long before David stood on the battlefield against Goliath, he was being shaped in the "darkroom" of the wilderness. Through faithful obedience in small things, private victories over hidden temptations, and the courage to lead with his unique giftings, David became a man after God's own heart.

Whether you feel hidden in an "inglorious" season or are facing your own "lions and bears," this conversation will help you recognize God's hand at work in your development. Learn why your private faithfulness is the prerequisite for your public calling and how God is already orchestrating the "good things" planned for your life.

1. Developed in the Darkroom

The making of a leader happens in hidden places. Like a photograph, if we are exposed to the "light" of fame or responsibility too soon, the image is ruined. David’s journey to the throne began with a "cheese run"—a simple act of obedience to his father (1 Samuel 17:17-20).

1. The Principle: If you’re too big to serve, you’re too small to lead.
2. Bible Link: “Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities.” (Matthew 25:21)

2. Private Victories Protect Public Callings

Before David faced the giant, he faced the lion and the bear in solitude (1 Samuel 17:34-37). Your private battles—with pride, envy, or lust—are the training ground for your future.

1. The Principle: Hidden obedience produces visible power.
2. Bible Link: “People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.” (Proverbs 28:13)

3. Walk in Your Own Armor

David refused Saul’s heavy armor because he hadn't "tested" it. He knew that a sling he was used to was better than a sword he couldn't carry (1 Samuel 17:38-40).

1. The Principle: If you don’t walk in it, you can’t war in it. God equips you uniquely for your specific calling.
2. Bible Link: “Do not neglect the spiritual gift you received...” (1 Timothy 4:14)

4. God Prepares the Worker and the Work

God isn’t improvising your story; He is orchestrating it. Just as the head of the idol Dagon fell before the Ark years prior, David’s victory over Goliath was a prophetic echo of God’s supremacy.

1. The Principle: God’s preparation always runs ahead of our participation.
2. Bible Link: “For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.” (Ephesians 2:10)

1. The Service Challenge: Identify one “inglorious” assignment this week...