In this episode, Brandi and AJ share how unanswered questions, painful discovery, and an honest search for truth led them from “grinding for godhood” in Mormonism to encountering the real Jesus of the Bible.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

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Brandi and AJ were doing everything “right.” They were BYU grads, married, building a life, raising kids, and fully committed to the LDS vision of a faithful future. AJ describes it like “grinding for godhood”—a life built on steps, worthiness, temple goals, and constant striving. But then the foundation started to crack.

For AJ, some of the doctrinal history raised unsettling questions (including ideas like “blood atonement,” which they mention they’ll unpack later). For Brandi, the tipping point was watching changes in the LDS church after COVID and feeling like the church was shifting in a more progressive direction. She tried to address it the way a devoted member would: she wrote letters to Salt Lake City headquarters about what she saw as inconsistency—especially related to abortion and human life. She wasn’t trying to tear anything down. She genuinely believed the LDS church was true, and she wanted it to be consistent.

But the response felt dismissive—more like a polite pat on the head than a meaningful engagement. That frustration pushed them into a place they never thought they’d go: researching.

Brandi makes an important clarification: they weren’t hunting for “gotcha” moments. They didn’t go searching because they assumed the church was false. In fact, they needed it to be true. That’s why reading outside sources felt dangerous. AJ describes that fear as avoiding the “cognitive dissonance fire”—because their hearts were convinced, and they didn’t want their minds persuaded that everything was a lie.

But once they started reading, the “genie” didn’t go back in the bottle.

They looked at sources like MormonThink because it included multiple perspectives—both critical claims and apologetic responses. That felt more balanced. Still, it wasn’t official, and Brandi felt guilty even being there. Eventually, as more historical issues piled up (like multiple First Vision accounts, questions surrounding the Book of Abraham, and other details they had never been taught), Brandi felt desperate for the church itself to clarify things. So they turned to the Gospel Topics Essays—official LDS content hosted on the LDS website.

That’s where everything shifted.

Instead of restoring confidence, the essays confirmed key issues and, in Brandi’s view, exposed more “spin” than clarity. For the first time, she seriously wrestled with the question: What if the church isn’t true?

AJ explains how people often survive early doubts by “nuancing” their faith—making room for uncomfortable data while keeping the system intact. But eventually, they reached a crossroads: Would they live in a...

Big Idea: Jesus Christ is not just a chapter in the story of God; He is the Author, the Hero, and the Ending. When we see Jesus for who He truly is, every other priority in our lives finds its proper place.

Today we begin a nine-week journey through the Book of Hebrews, a letter written to magnify the greatness of Jesus Christ. Hebrews isn’t primarily about religious rules, moral improvement, or spiritual techniques. It’s about Jesus—who He is and what He has done. Everything else flows from that foundation.

The original audience was likely Jewish Christians living under Roman rule, facing intense persecution. As pressure mounted, many were tempted to abandon their faith in Jesus and return to the familiarity and safety of traditional Judaism. Hebrews speaks directly into that tension with one clear message: Jesus is greater than anyone or anything that came before Him. To walk away from Him would be to walk away from the fulfillment of all God’s promises.

The author of Hebrews remains anonymous, one of the great mysteries of the New Testament. While Paul may have influenced it, the writing style is far more polished and rhetorically sophisticated than Paul’s letters. Hebrews chapter 1 proves this immediately. Verses 1–4 form a single, majestic sentence in the original Greek—an exordium, designed to grab attention with both beauty and weight.

Hebrews 1:1–4 (NLT) sets the stage:

In the Old Testament, God spoke in fragments—a dream here, a burning bush there, a prophet’s warning along the way. But in Jesus, God didn’t just send messages; He sent the Message. This is Christology—the study of the person and work of Jesus Christ—and Hebrews wastes no time getting to the point.

In verses 2–3, the author unleashes a rapid-fire description of Jesus using seven distinct attributes. In Scripture, the number seven represents completeness and perfection. Together, these form a full portrait of the Son.

Jesus is the Heir—the goal of history. God has promised everything to Him as an inheritance. History is not random; it is moving toward the coronation of King Jesus. He is the “why” behind all creation.

Jesus is the Creator—the architect of reality. Through Him, God made the universe. Jesus is not a created being; He is the source of all things. Nothing exists apart from His will.

Jesus is the Radiance—the shining glory of God. He doesn’t merely reflect God’s glory like the moon reflects sunlight; He radiates it. The Son is the visible manifestation of the invisible God—“Light from Light.”

Jesus is the Expression—the exact imprint of God’s nature. The Greek word charaktēr refers to a stamp or seal. Jesus doesn’t resemble God; He perfectly represents Him. To see Jesus is to see God.

Jesus is the Sustainer—the glue of the cosmos. He holds everything together by the power of His word. The universe doesn’t persist on autopilot; it endures because Jesus commands it to.

Jesus is the Savior—the cleanser of sin. When He purified us from our sins, the work was finished. Unlike Old Testament priests who never sat down, Jesus completed the work once for all.

Finally, Jesus is the Ruler—the seated King. He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven, a position of total authority. The victory is won.

Hebrews 1:4 reminds us that Jesus is far greater than angels, traditions, or anything else we might be tempted to trust. For believers facing hardship, this truth re-centers everything.

The message of Hebrews is clear:...

In this episode, Bryan sits down with Brandi and AJ to hear how a lifetime of devotion to Mormon exaltation turned into what they call “grinding for godhood”—a relentless pursuit of worthiness, temple marriage, and eternal approval. Their story reveals the hidden pressure of a works-based faith and sets the stage for how God began to unravel everything they thought was true.

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The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday.

Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.

Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.

Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.

Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.

Donate Now

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Check out Brandi's Book: The Journey to Jesus: Finding Christ after Leaving Mormonism

In this episode, Bryan talks with Brandi and AJ, two former Mormons who were fully committed to their faith from childhood. Brandi introduces a phrase that captures their experience perfectly: “grinding for godhood.” It describes a life shaped by striving—keeping covenants, qualifying for temple blessings, and doing everything necessary to reach exaltation.

Brandi explains that from a young age she believed her purpose was to tap into her divine nature and eventually become like God. This wasn’t driven by ego or a desire to be worshiped. It felt like obligation—this is what I was created for, and I have to take it seriously.

AJ felt the same pressure. The temple represented the ultimate goal: exaltation, eternal family, and eternal progression. Getting to the temple—and staying worthy—was everything.

For Brandi, godhood wasn’t just a “male” idea. She fully expected to become like a “Heavenly Mother,” even though Heavenly Mother was rarely discussed in Mormonism. Eternity was tied to temple marriage, which meant finding the right husband wasn’t optional—it was essential.

That belief raised the stakes on dating, college decisions, and life itself.

AJ grew up in Utah, where Mormonism was normal and rarely questioned. Brandi grew up in California, constantly interacting with non-Mormons and Christians who challenged her beliefs. Instead of weakening her faith, that pressure made her more confident and outspoken.

Brandi actively debated theology, defended the Restoration, and gave Book of Mormons to friends and teachers—believing she was sharing something life-changing.

At BYU Provo, the urgency intensified. Brandi describes the dating culture as competitive and...