Marriage always carries both joy and challenge… but what happens when life pushes you to the edge? When trauma, illness, loss, stress, or sheer exhaustion stretch your relationship beyond its limits?

In this tender and often humorous conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen interviews Dan and Becky Allender to explore what it means to love and be loved through seasons of extremity—those times when the demands of life exceed our capacity to meet them.

From everyday frustrations to the deep pain of seasons of loss, physical suffering, and ministry fatigue, Dan and Becky reflect honestly on how marriage can expose both our best and our most broken parts.

If you're wondering how to stay connected when life feels impossible—or how to find beauty and intimacy on the other side of pain—this episode is a gentle invitation to hope.

This episode engages the topic of some difficult topics, including pregnancy loss. Listener discretion is advised.

Ever have a day where everything goes sideways and your body just won't calm down? In this episode, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore emotional dysregulation: why our nervous systems spiral under stress, especially with a history of trauma, and how we can respond with mercy rather than shame.

Through humor, real-life stories, and insights from both neuroscience and Scripture, they show that dysregulation isn't weakness; it's a signal from your body asking for care and compassion. Their conversation also offers practical ways to tend to your body, mind, and soul.

Listener Resources:

• Read: Aundi Kolber's Try Softer and Strong Like Water

• Read: Resmaa Manakem's My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies

• Listen to: Self Care and Practical Grounding Techniques on the Allender Center Podcast

Download the free worksheet: Beyond Self-Care: Build Sustainable Practices from the Center for Transforming Engagement at The Seattle School

If you've ever wrestled with the long, uneven work of healing, we hope today's conversation offers courage for the journey.

Dan shares his recent reflections on the lament of waiting found in Psalm 13 and the persistent pursuit of justice embodied by Erin Brockovich as he rewatched the 2000 film. He and Rachael explore the tension between justice today and the full restoration that is "not yet," bringing these insights into the lingering impact of past sexual abuse.

Healing after sexual abuse shapes not just your body but your whole affective and relational world. When harm happens in relationships, it distorts your sense of safety, trust, and even goodness. You may notice contempt toward your own body, frustration at emotional reactions, or fear around your own desires. Hypervigilance, self-protection, or numbing can become familiar companions, and trusting others—or even yourself—can feel risky. The work of healing in adult life is laborious, requiring vulnerability, patience, and courage to reclaim desire, goodness, and the capacity to be seen.

They consider Psalm 13 as both a cry of lament and a thread of hope. It doesn't promise immediate relief. It simply says, "I trust in your unfailing love," leaving open the possibility that this is not the end of the story.

Healing is not a linear path or a once-and-done process. It's a lifelong journey of tending to what remains—the physiological, emotional, relational, and spiritual aftermath of trauma. And yet, even in the hard work, there is invitation: keep choosing life, goodness, and the beauty of your own desire.

Every small act of caring for your body, each moment of speaking truth, each return to beauty becomes a protest against despair—a glimpse of the wholeness that is coming. Healing itself is a form of justice.

* This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

Healing from spiritual abuse and religious trauma is not a simple, linear journey. In this week's episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Rachael Clinton Chen sits down with Dr. Hillary McBride—psychologist, researcher, and author of "Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing"—to explore the invisible wounds that trauma leaves on our minds, bodies, and spirits.

They talk about:

• How trauma can be reinforced by the very systems meant to guide and protect us.
  
  

• The profound importance of witnessing, connection, and radical welcoming in your recovery journey.
  
  

• Recovering parts of ourselves that were buried under burdens we were never meant to carry.
  
  

• What it means to grieve, to repair, and to show up for ourselves and our communities.

This conversation is an invitation to sit tenderly with your own story, to bear witness to your pain, and to glimpse the possibility of love, mercy, and goodness in the midst of it.

You can order your copy of "Holy Hurt" by Hillary L. McBride, PhD, here: https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

In this week's wise and profoundly human conversation, Dr. Dan Allender sits down with longtime friend and former student Michael John Cusick, founder of Restoring the Soul and author of the new book Sacred Attachment: Escaping Spiritual Exhaustion and Trusting in Divine Love.

Together, they explore the link between spiritual exhaustion and divine love, and how attachment, or the way we learn to connect and be connected, shapes our experience of God, ourselves, and one another.

Michael shares pieces of his remarkable story: from surviving profound childhood trauma and addiction to discovering the slow, sacred work of healing that unfolds over a lifetime. He reflects on the moments that first revealed divine love to him and later, the painful exposure that became the turning point of his adult life.

Dan and Michael talk about what it means to practice attachment—to be seen, soothed, safe, and secure—and how even our deepest wounds can become doorways into God's relentless, restorative love.

This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

When you hear the words "surrendered sexuality," what comes to mind—loss, shame, control? In this conversation, you'll hear a different vision.

In this week's episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by clinical psychologist and author Dr. Juli Slattery. Together, they open up a vulnerable and hope-filled dialogue about sexuality—one that goes far beyond rules or "right answers."

Drawing from her new book Surrendered Sexuality: How Knowing Jesus Changes Everything, Juli shares how her own journey, through disruption, prayer, and deepening intimacy with God, led her to recognize the unspoken pain so many of us carry around sexuality.

Rather than focusing on behaviors, Dan and Juli invite you to see sexuality as a core part of being human: your body, your emotions, your longing for connection, and ultimately, your intimacy with God.

They also reframe what it means to surrender. Instead of shame or control, surrender becomes a gentle, ongoing invitation into the goodness of God—an opening to more pleasure in life, meaningful healing, and deeper trust in Jesus.

This isn't an episode with tidy conclusions or quick fixes. It's an invitation to step into the mystery of sexuality as part of your discipleship journey, and to discover that in surrender, you don't lose yourself. You find life: a life that is more whole, more connected, and more deeply rooted in the goodness of God.

What does it look like for the Church to become a true place of hope, healing, and care when it comes to mental health? In this week's conversation, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Laura Howe, a clinical social worker and founder of Hope Made Strong and the Church Mental Health Summit, a free online event coming up on October 10, 2025.

Laura shares her journey into bridging faith and mental health—born out of frustration and a longing to see the Church rise to its calling as a safe, caring community. Together, they explore the unique role the Church can play in mental health support: not as a replacement for clinical care, but as a vital presence of peer support, belonging, and discipleship that helps people feel seen and held.

This episode touches on:

• How churches can move beyond programs to cultivate a culture of care
  
  

• The power of peer support as the "missing piece" in mental health conversations
  
  

• The theological and cultural obstacles that keep communities from engaging suffering honestly
  
  

• The very real challenges of compassion fatigue and burnout for leaders—and practices for resilience

Whether you're a pastor, ministry leader, caregiver, or someone longing to see your church embody greater compassion, this conversation offers both hope and practical wisdom for building communities where people can truly experience the canopy of care we all need.

For many, theology brings to mind dusty bookshelves, abstract arguments, and rigid dogmas. But what if theology wasn't static? What if it could move, breathe, and shape the way we live, love, and lead in the world?

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Dr. Lauren D. Sawyer to talk about living theology—a way of engaging God and Scripture that doesn't stay confined to the context of books, a classroom, or even church, but instead has "feet" that walk into our everyday lives. Lauren shares about The Seattle School's new Certificate in Living Theology, a one-year online program designed to bring theology into conversation with psychology, culture, story, and community.

Together, they explore why theology is never neutral, how our contexts shape what we believe, and why listening and dialogue are as essential as doctrine. You'll hear how living theology is less about arriving at final answers and more about cultivating a faith that is reflective, embodied, and responsive to the complexities of our time.

If you've ever longed for a way of doing theology that feels deeply connected to life, justice, and relational depth, this conversation is an invitation to consider what it means for theology to truly come alive.

Learn more about the Certificate in Living Theology: theseattleschool.edu/programs/living-theology-certificate