Michael Andor Brodeur is a “big man.” That’s the term he uses to describe himself after more than 30 years of lifting weights - some of those spent as a powerlifter, and all of those spent not just trying to get fit, but to get big. But for all the time he’s spent in the gym over the years, he’s probably spent just as much time thinking about the way men think about the connection between men, muscles, and masculinity.

On this episode of Paternal, Brodeur discusses the concept of getting big and why some men are so motivated to do so, the connection between how men build their bodies and their inability to express themselves emotionally, how some men use weightlifting to deal with issues like anxiety, grief and addiction, and why the gym is a place where men are free to fail and support one another when they do fail, two things they might not be encouraged to do in other parts of society.

Brodeur is the classical music critic at the Washington Post and the author of the book, Swole: The Making of Men and the Meaning of Muscle, which is available wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05:20 - Introduction
05:20 - 7:13 - First exposure to weight lifting
07:13 - 13:00 - Using weights as a way to change self-image
13:00 - 17:52 - Why men lift weights to be noticed by other men
17:52 - 22:22 - How men use their bodies as primary means of self-expression
22:22 - 25:43 - Why failure and encouragement is accepted by men the gym
25:43 - 30:05 - Carrying grief into the gym
30:05 - 33:30 - A different definition of strength

When you’re talking to Bakari Sellers about fatherhood, you’re talking to a man who truly is a link between generations. As the son of a famous Civil Rights activist who befriended the likes of Stokely Carmichael and Martin Luther King, Jr., Sellers feels the weight of expectations from his ancestors and his community. And as the father of two young twins, he feels the pressure of helping ensure the world is better for them than it ever was for him.

But what happens when that pressure sometimes feels like too much? And what happens when, despite all the work he and his father have done to make it so, he simply can’t tell his kids everything will be okay? On this episode of Paternal, Sellers discusses why he sees his life as an extension of his father’s journey, how he copes with anxiety, his relationship to anger, and why he thinks the U.S. has reached a nadir after George Floyd’s death failed to produce a racial reckoning so many expected.

Sellers is a political commentator for CNN and a former state legislator from South Carolina, as well as the author of the new book The Moment, which is available now wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 07:40 - Introduction

07:40 - 10:15 - Lessons from his father

10:15 - 16:00 - dealing with the pressure of a famous father

16:00 - 19:26 - handling pressure from the Black community and dealing with anxiety

19:26 - 24:20 - on generational changes among poiliticians and activists

24:20 - 27:35 - channeling anger and realizing the world might not be okay for our kids

27:35 - 29:50 - on lessons we teach our kids, and a sense of resignation

29:50 - end credits

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If you were a child of the 1980s and early 1990s, you lived through a golden age for sitcom dads. From The Cosby Show to Growing Pains and Roseanne to The Simpsons, fathers of all kinds ruled the airwaves for roughly a decade, providing an entire generation of wide-eyed kids a glimpse into what a father should look like and, for better or worse, what a family can be. But did these portrayals of paternal figures do more harm than good, and how did Friends and Seinfeld land a fatal blow to the fate of sitcom dads?

Comedy historian and author Saul Austerlitz joins this episode of Paternal to take a deep dive on the history of the family sitcom, tracing the genre’s roots back to the dawn of television. He discusses how fathers were first portrayed in the 1950s and how they have evolved during each decade thereafter, including iconic sitcom dads on Leave it to Beaver, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, Roseanne, and The Simpsons.

Austerlitz is a faculty member at NYU who teaches courses on writing about American comedy and writing about television drama, and he’s the author of six books, including on the history of sitcoms and the success of the hit series Friends. He recently wrote an article in The Atlantic entitled “Dad Culture Has Nothing to Do With Parenting.”

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 06:56 - Intro

06:56 - 10:33 - The perils of the “dad perjorative” and the connection to sitcoms

10:33 - 15:12 - Sitcom dads in the 1950s and 1960s

15:12 - 21:18 - Discussing Archie Bunker, “All in the Family,” and 70s family sitcoms

23:16 - 28:28 - The success of “The Cosby Show”

28:28 - 32:22 - The rise of the 1980s Superdad

32:22 - 36:12 - “Roseanne” breaks the mold

36:12 - 42:49 - The alternative dads on “Married With Children” and “The Simpsons”

42:49 - 46:25 - The 1990s demise of the family sitcom

46:25 - 48:42 - “Blackish” and dads on modern-day sitcoms

48:42 - 51:40 - What we lose without family sitcoms

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Paternal listeners email the show regularly with requests to cover various topics on the show. Some are serious and some are silly, but one request just keeps coming: How do we teach our kids resilience? Dr. Dennis S. Charney is a leading expert in the study of resilience and has spent decades examining the causes of anxiety, fear and depression. He’s also interviewed prisoners of war, victims of rape and assault, survivors of natural disasters, and frontline healthcare workers about the traits that have helped them overcome trauma, all in an effort to better understand how we can all learn to be more resilient.

On this episode of Paternal, Dr. Charney discusses some of the most compelling factors to building resilience in yourself and your kids, including facing your fears, developing social groups, and establishing core values for you and your family. He also recounts a life-threatening experience that tested his own resilience, decades after living a charmed life studying the challenges of others. Dr. Charney is the co-author of Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life’s Greatest Challenges.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05.30 - Introduction

05:30 - 07:59 - A life-threatening test of resilience

07:59 - 13:27 - Defining resilience and studying trauma victims

13:27 - 18:00 - On facing your fears

18:00 - 19:50 - On the values of optimism

19:50 - 22:15 - On developing social groups and the connection to resilience

22:15 - 24:18 - Discussing the value of role models

24:18 - 28:05 - On identifying your core beliefs, values and family history

28:05 - 29:46 - Discussing the connection between gratitude and resilience

29:46 - 32:15 - On what parents get wrong when they think about teaching kids resilience

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Rob Flanagan is a husband and father who lives with his family outside of Boulder, Colorado, and roughly one year ago he and his wife Dana began an ordeal that changed their lives. After a few days of fighting a cold and a slight fever while missing out on attending kindergarten, their daughter Saoirse was suddenly hospitalized and then intubated, and it was unclear if she would ever wake up.

On this episode of Paternal, Flanagan recounts the experience of spending days in the ICU with his wife while they awaited word on the health of their daughter, what the doctor’s diagnosis meant for their family, and how he learned to embrace both acceptance and hope on the path to becoming a better father.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05:43 - Introduction
05:43 - 11:54 - A frightening trip to the hospital
11:54 - 18:48 - Intubation and the diagnosis
18:48 - 23:13 - Asking for help and dealing with complex emotions
25:06 - 30:24 - A reawakening and an uncertain future
30:24 - 37:45 - A new reality, and changes in parenting
37:45 - 41:16 - Balancing what is, and what could have been

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Growing up on the Wasauksing First Nation indigenous reserve in Ontario, journalist and bestselling author Waubgeshig Rice learned early in his life about the value of culture and community. But as an Anishinaabe young man schooled in the challenges his ancestors faced as indigenous people in Canada, Rice was also keenly aware of what happens when a community loses its connection to its history, traditions and culture, and how men can easily fall victim to the effects of intergenerational trauma.

On this 2022 episode of Paternal, Rice recounts his experience on Wasauksing First Nation and his sometimes conflicted emotions about growing up on the reserve, as well as the challenges his own father faced in trying to reclaim the family’s Anishinaabe identity. Rice - who penned the celebrated apocalyptic thriller Moon of the Crusted Snow as well as the recently released follow-up Moon of the Turning Leaves, and was dubbed “one of the leading voices reshaping North American science fiction, horror and fantasy” by the New York Times - also discusses the emotional strain he experienced after the complicated birth of his first son, and how masculinity and vulnerability are valued on “the rez.”

Most people know Kwame Alexander as the Newbery Medal-winning author of The Crossover, the bestselling children’s book about two young brothers hooked on basketball. Long before he was an award-winning author, however, Alexander spent his time writing love poems, in an attempt to impress women and find his voice as a poet and a young man.

But three decades and two marriages later, Alexander is a 54-year-old father of two now reconsidering those relationships from his past, and what exactly he knows - and doesn’t know - about love. And in order to do that, he’s thinking more about the marriage his parents modeled for him as a child, as well as what he learned about love and relationships from his father, a hard-nosed Baptist minister who rarely showed affection.

Alexander’s book, Why Fathers Cry at Night, is available wherever you buy books, as is his latest collection of poems, This Is the Honey: An Anthology of Contemporary Black Poets.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 07:25 - Intro

07:25 - 09:50 - on learning to love from watching our parents’ relationship

09:50 - 19:47 - discussing Kwame Alexander’s father’s version of tough love

19:47 - 24:26 - digging into his father’s jazz collection

26:31 - 32:40 - on the vulnerability required to write about broken relationships

32:40 - 35:36 - on talking to our parents and children about love

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Longtime political journalist Tim Alberta spent more than three years speaking with pastors and churchgoers across the country in a search for answers about what’s happening in contemporary Evangelicalism. Why were so many congregations becoming more political, and seemingly less invested in traditional Christian values? Why were they so motivated by fear? How could so many Evangelicals support Donald Trump, who doesn’t share their beliefs? And what do all these dramatic changes mean for the future of Evangelicals in the United States, including Alberta's three young sons?

On this episode of Paternal, Alberta discusses his life as an Evangelical Christian, the influence of his born-again Christian father, what he learned about Evangelicalism from speaking with today’s church leaders, and why some churchgoers confronted him at his own father’s funeral about politics in the era of Trump.

Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the author of the New York Times bestselling book The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, which is available now wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05:56 - Introduction and description of The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism
05:56 - 13:11 - Background on Tim Alberta’s father, senior pastor Richard Alberta
13:11 - 16:56 - On the experience of growing up as a pastor’s kid
16:56 - 19:30 - Discussing his father’s funeral and blowback from members of the church congregation
21:05 - 27:01 - On Evangelicals, idolatry, and fighting for America as if salvation itself hangs in the balance
27:01 - 31:03 - On Evangelicals and fear of a changing society
27:01 - 31:03 - On Evangelicals and fear of a changing society
31:03 - 35:27 - Why Evangelicals have rallied around Trump
35:27 - 38:50 - The challenge of inheriting faith from your father
38:50 - 44:32 - On what kind of faith he wants for his kids

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