When Robert Gallery was a senior at the University of Iowa, he was one of the most respected and feared college football players in the country. At 6-foot-7 and 320 pounds, Gallery leveraged his size, talent and tenacity into a lucrative contract and an eight-year career in the National Football League. But all the while he was quietly suffering one concussion after another on the football field, and when his career finally ended, he struggled to handle bouts of rage that left him shaking in a chair after his young child spilled a glass of milk.

On this episode of Paternal, Gallery reflects on the difficult transition from high-performance athlete to stay-at-home dad, the moment he learned about the extensive damage done to his brain, and how a vivid two-day psychoactive drug treatment in Mexico changed the course of his life. Gallery is the co-founder and CEO of Athletes for Care, a non-profit organization supporting athletes through mental health and alternative therapy advocacy. He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2023.

What were the first words you said to your child when you became a parent? Was there something you needed to say to officially welcome him or her into this world, or was it all just a blur? For longtime Slate journalist and author Aymann Ismail the task was clear: He had to recite a Muslim call to prayer into his newborn son’s right ear, a ritual that’s been performed by countless Muslim fathers through the generations, all over the world. But was he appeasing God, or his own father?

On this episode of Paternal, Ismail discusses a life spent navigating being a Muslim kid who preferred cartoons over daily prayers, and then how his faith influences his role as a father to two young kids now. And all the while he’s been trying to somehow live up to the expectations of his father, a devout and educated Muslim man fixated on the kind of man he believes his son should be.

Ismail’s new book, Becoming Baba: Fatherhood, Faith and Finding Meaning in America, is available now wherever you buy books.

Jonathan Malesic spent more than a decade in what he thought was his dream job as a college professor. But after years on the clock he found himself exhausted, angry, and struggling to feel like he was making an impact with his students. But even when he quit his job in order to solve one problem, he quickly realized he had another on his hands: Without a job, was he suddenly less of a man?

On this 2023 episode of Paternal, Malesic recounts the experience that led him to studying the phenomenon of burnout, how it affects men and women differently, what role work plays in defining a man’s sense of masculinity, and the effects of burnout on men when it comes to fatherhood. Malesic’s 2022 book The End of Burnout is available wherever you buy books, and he is also the author of the 2022 essay “How Men Burn Out,” from The New York Times.