Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman at Ogilvy UK, joins Dots Oyebolu to discuss the underestimated power of perception, the limits of logic in marketing, and how behavioral science can uncover overlooked opportunities in consumer behavior.

He explains why repeat purchases beat novelty, the role of emotional efficiency in decision-making, and how marketers should think like detectives rather than data analysts.

Key Takeaways:

(03:10) Presenting a product effectively is not an option but a necessity.

(05:24) The Uber map reduced stress not by shortening waits but by adding certainty.

(06:54) People post-rationalize their decisions more than they realize.

(09:04) Marketers should approach their work like detectives, asking what they don’t know and seeking hidden motivations behind consumer behavior.

(14:23) Our sensory systems are inseparable from context, making marketing essential — without proper framing, even great products can fail.

(19:09) Price is a feeling, not just a number, in consumer decision-making.

(23:35) Testing counterintuitive ideas reveals unseen marketing truths.

(24:37) Sales aren’t driven just by lower prices — consumers often buy for the feeling of getting a deal, not the deal itself.

Resources Mentioned:

Rory Sutherland

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/

Ogilvy UK

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ogilvyuk/

“Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense” (book) by Rory Sutherland

https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Surprising-Power-Ideas-Sense/dp/0753556529

“The Experience Machine: How Our Minds Predict and Shape Reality” (book) by Andy Clark

https://www.amazon.co.za/Experience-Machine-Minds-Predict-Reality/dp/1524748455

Insightful Links:

https://www.meltwater.com/en/blog/customer-behaviour-data-driven-marketing

https://www.moengage.com/learn/consumer-behavior-in-marketing/

https://www.omniconvert.com/blog/consumer-behavior-in-marketing-patterns-types-segmentation/

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Join Dots Oyebolu as he speaks to Jay Schwedelson, Founder of SubjectLine.com, about the evolving role of email marketing in a rapidly changing digital landscape.

Jay shares tactical insights into how businesses can maximize their email strategy amidst budget cuts, automation fatigue and the rise of AI. From building smarter contact lists to rethinking autoresponders, this episode delivers practical takeaways for marketers looking to boost engagement and retention.

Key Takeaways:

(01:24) Jay outlines his ventures, including Outcome Media and the Guru Conference.

(02:26) Jay emphasizes democratizing access to quality marketing education through free resources.

(04:32) A tighter economy means email becomes more vital due to its cost efficiency.

(07:10) Pop-up contact forms are highly effective and shouldn't be dismissed as annoying.

(08:38) Pop-ups grab 9% of site visitors’ information within the first five visits.

(11:21) The autoresponder is the most important email marketers send, driving inbox deliverability.

(12:48) A compelling welcome email subject line boosts inbox placement by signaling recipient engagement to email providers.

(21:02) Outdated automation content can harm your pipeline and brand trust.

(23:56) Common myths about spam filters and subject lines are outdated; emojis and “free” are effective and safe.

Resources Mentioned:

Jay Schwedelson

https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/

SubjectLine.com | LinkedIn

http://subjectline.com

SubjectLine | Website

https://www.subjectline.com

Outcome Media

https://www.outcomemedia.com

Guru Conference

https://www.guruconference.com

Jay Schwedelson's Website

https://www.jayschwedelson.com

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Joining Dots Oyebolu on this episode is AJ Wilcox, Founder of B2Linked, the world’s first LinkedIn Ads agency. AJ shares how he went from SEO and Google Ads to managing the largest LinkedIn Ads account globally, and why LinkedIn has become the most effective paid channel for reaching high-value B2B decision-makers.



Key Takeaways:

(01:25) AJ shares how he transitioned from SEO and Google Ads into becoming a LinkedIn Ads specialist.

(01:44) AJ reveals the surprising early success that led him to go “all in” on LinkedIn Ads.

(04:23) Luxury brands like Rolex are increasingly using LinkedIn Ads to target high earners with precise business demographics.

(06:42) AJ breaks down a modern, profitable B2B LinkedIn Ads strategy that prioritizes brand marketing and video.

(06:52) Video retargeting on LinkedIn allows brands to create emotional, sequential interactions that build trust.

(11:02) Despite high CPCs, LinkedIn delivers better ROI than Facebook when looking at qualified leads and conversions.

(15:14) LinkedIn’s built-in targeting often eliminates the need for lookalike audiences.

(22:12) Video views are a more valuable KPI than clicks. A 45-second view can often deliver more impact than a website visit.

(27:14) Over 50% of AJ’s leads now come from podcast listeners, proving the impact of consistent, value-driven audio content.

Resources Mentioned:

AJ Wilcox

https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilcoxaj/

B2Linked | LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/company/b2linked/

B2Linked | Website

https://b2linked.com

LinkedIn Ads Fanatics community

https://fanatics.b2linked.com/

The LinkedIn Ads podcast

https://b2linked.com/podcast

Insightful Links:

https://fanatics.b2linked.com/

https://www.advance-metrics.com/en/blog/linkedin-ads-your-b2b-magic-bullet/

https://www.marketingprofs.com/podcasts/2019/41263/linkedin-ads-aj-wilcox-marketing-smarts

https://directiveconsulting.com/blog/b2b-linkedin-strategy-saas

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Dots Oyebolu and Cory Henke, Founder and CEO of Variable Media, discuss modern paid media intelligence. Cory shares insights from his journey via major agencies and platforms to build a data-first paid media agency. He unpacks the challenges and philosophies around attribution and campaign measurement and explains how business intelligence tools like Power BI help brands unlock deeper visibility into what really drives performance.

Key Takeaways:

(01:20) Cory’s marketing journey.

(04:36) Marketers who rely solely on in-platform data miss the bigger picture — merging CRM, web analytics and ad platforms reveals deeper insights.

(07:51) Cory believes that attribution is unsolvable because great outcomes stem from many variables.

(09:50) In a dynamic ad landscape, Cory emphasizes having a conservative projection and a flexible testing strategy.

(11:16) For new brands, organic growth should precede paid media — proving demand without ad spend is key to long-term success.

(13:03) Attribution models are biased by platform incentives; YouTube, for instance, creates halo effects that platforms often credit to search.

(16:28) Cory’s team customizes attribution by extracting campaign data from multiple platforms, merging it via Power BI for clearer performance storytelling.

(21:31) CPM is Cory’s favorite marketing metric — unlike other KPIs, it reveals raw costs and helps evaluate the efficiency of reach, regardless of engagement.

(27:42) Staying top of mind and testing new formats is key as digital advertising continues to evolve beyond traditional performance metrics.

Resources Mentioned:

Cory Henke

https://www.linkedin.com/in/coryhenke/

Variable Media | LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/company/variable-media/

Variable Media | Website

https://variable.media/

Power BI

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/products/power-bi

Cory Henke on Twitter

https://twitter.com/CoryHenke

Insightful Links:

https://online.mason.wm.edu/blog/data-analytics-in-digital-marketing

https://www.akkio.com/post/business-intelligence-in-marketing

https://www.netsuite.com/portal/resource/articles/erp/business-intelligence-strategy.shtml

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Dots Oyebolu chats with Larry Kim, Founder and CEO of Customers.ai.

Larry shares his groundbreaking approach to go-to-market strategies in the B2C space, challenging the dominance of ad-heavy models and introducing a scalable, intent-driven framework for outbound email marketing.

From the evolution of PPC to hyper-personalized campaigns powered by AI, this conversation explores how marketers can rethink engagement, improve deliverability and expand their reach without sacrificing relevance or compliance.

Key Takeaways:

(02:11) Customers.ai identifies website visitors using AI for outbound marketing.

(03:53) The future of marketing is hyper-personalized and AI-driven, with individualized video sales letters and content.

(07:39) B2C companies are now facing ROI challenges in digital ads due to skyrocketing CPMs.

(09:02) Intent-driven email marketing can provide higher quality leads for B2C businesses at a fraction of ad costs.

(16:17) “Intent-driven outbounding” is a new category blending the best of inbound and outbound strategies.

(18:41) Three strategic pillars are dynamic list generation, deliverability tools and email list hygiene.

(33:18) AI-powered creative customization tailors messages to user behavior, identity and journey.

(40:17) Customers.ai restores first-party data pipelines, overcoming modern browser and privacy restrictions.

(46:11) CAN-SPAM monitors compliance in the US but strategic discomfort boosts innovation.

Resources Mentioned:

Larry Kim

https://www.linkedin.com/in/larrykim/

Customers.ai | LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/company/customersai/

Customers.ai | Website

https://customers.ai

Insightful Links:

https://customers.ai/blog

https://userlist.com/blog/b2c-saas-email-marketing/

https://www.business2community.com/brandviews/marketo/leverage-social-intent-data-email-marketing-01818638

https://martech.org/4-qualities-of-an-intent-driven-marketing-automation-email-program/

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Dots Oyebolu welcomes Michelle Ngome, Founder and President of the African-American Marketing Association (AAMA), in this episode.

Michelle shares her journey from finance to marketing, emphasizing the importance of integrated strategies that blend traditional and digital efforts. She unpacks the evolution of inclusive marketing, the challenges and triumphs of building a diverse marketing community and why empathy and representation must go beyond surface-level diversity.

Key Takeaways:

(01:19) Michelle transitions from finance to a 15-year marketing career focused on small businesses and thought leadership.

(02:31) A call for holistic representation — beyond token visuals — in inclusive marketing.

(04:08) The African-American Marketing Association’s membership is split between entrepreneurs and corporate marketers.

(05:28) The Marketing for the Culture Summit fosters community among Black marketers from across North America.

(10:27) Younger generations demand social responsibility and hold brands more accountable than ever.

(18:09) Michelle outlines her five-point framework for inclusive marketing.

(24:56) Brands should expand existing offerings to new communities instead of creating entirely new products.

(33:11) Internal audits and strategic planning ensure DEI efforts are authentic and sustainable.

(35:17) Annual reports and competitor research offer hidden insights for shaping impactful DEI marketing strategy.

(46:35) Always include representative voices in decision-making to ensure cultural campaigns are guided authentically.

Resources Mentioned:

Michelle Ngome

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mngome/

The African-American Marketing Association (AAMA) | LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/company/african-american-marketing-association/

Michelle Ngome | Website

https://www.michellengome.com/

Insightful Links:

https://all-in.withgoogle.com/strategy/

https://www.texthelp.com/en-gb/resources/digital-accessibility-guide/inclusive-marketing/

https://advertising.amazon.com/en-ca/library/guides/inclusive-marketing

https://beinclusivethecardgame.com/

https://www.aa-ma.org/

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds

Join Dots Oyebolu as he speaks to Heather Osgood, Founder of True Native Media Podcast Advertising, a podcast representation agency that specializes in connecting mid-level shows with advertisers.

Heather shares the growing value of podcast advertising in modern marketing strategies. She explores the unique power of host-read ads, the intentional nature of podcast audiences, and how brands can benefit from targeted campaigns even without producing a podcast themselves.

Key Takeaways:

(03:45) Host-read ads build trust and drive strong purchase intent.

(05:05) Podcast listeners are highly engaged, consuming up to 80% of episodes.

(07:04) Small, niche B2B audiences can be very effective for advertisers.

(08:18) Define the podcast’s purpose before pursuing monetization.

(10:28) Business, marketing and finance podcasts perform well in ad sales.

(16:02) Think about the size of the audience you’re targeting.

(25:56) Promo codes, landing pages and pixel tracking help measure ROI.

(28:41) Podcast ads enhance other media performance through a multi-channel marketing mix.

(29:26) Podcast ads boost channel synergy, tripling video performance when run together.

Resources Mentioned:

Heather Osgood

https://www.linkedin.com/in/podcastadvertising/

True Native Media Podcast Advertising | LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/company/tnma/

True Native Media Podcast Advertising | Website

https://truenativemedia.com/

Insightful Links:

https://truenativemedia.com/2021-marketing-plan/

https://www.quillpodcasting.com/blog-posts/podcast-advertising-should-be-paid-strategy

https://advertise.acast.com/news-and-insights/7-reasons-why-you-need-podcast-advertising-in-your-marketing-mix

Thanks for listening to the “Marketing Leadership” podcast, brought to you by Listen Network. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review to help get the word out about the show. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss another insightful conversation.

We appreciate the enthusiasm and support from our community. Currently, we are not accepting new guest interview requests as we focus on our existing lineup. We will announce when we reopen for new submissions. In the meantime, feel free to explore our past episodes and stay tuned for updates on future opportunities.

#PodcastMarketing #PerformanceMarketing #BrandMarketing #MarketingStrategy #MarketingIntelligence #GTM #B2BMarketing #D2CMarketing #PodcastAds