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Margaret Hargrove: Hi, listeners. I'm Audible Editor Margaret Hargrove, and I'm so excited to be speaking with Tabitha Brown today about her new cookbook, . Tabitha is an actress and author of the bestselling memoir . Affectionately known as “America's mom,” Tabitha uses her social media platforms to literally feed the souls of her millions of followers daily with her inspirational messages of hope, her positive affirmations of self-love, and, of course, her delicious vegan recipes. Tabitha, welcome to Audible.
Tabitha Brown: Thank you.
MH: So, Tabitha, just to give Audible listeners a little bit of background on you. You were born and raised in Eden, North Carolina, a small city north of Greensboro. You moved to Los Angeles 20 years ago to pursue a career in Hollywood as an actress, yet fame found you in 2017 when a Facebook video went viral of you raving about a vegan breakfast sandwich from Whole Foods. So, after years of auditions, casting calls, and the like, what does it mean to you to have found success on your own terms?
TB: Oh, honey, you know what, I'm so grateful it happened that way, right? And I don't know if it was necessarily my terms, because I started doing videos kicking and screaming. I was like, "Lord, I don't want to do this," but God has spoke to me and told me to do that. And so obedience is what led me to this journey. And I would never want to change that. Just being obedient and showing up and being consistent, but also just being me and being able to be free. Making it in that arena, making it to the next level or finding your success as your free self, there's nothing better than that.
So, I'm so grateful it happened the way it happened. I'm so glad that it came through a way I never imagined. Honey, I never would've imagined eating a sandwich in my car [laughs], telling somebody about the sandwich from Whole Foods, would literally open the doors. And the flood gates were just open, right? But it did, and I'm so grateful. Like you said, I've been pursuing this for over 20 years, not this, but entertainment, as an actor, and this was more than I could have ever imagined. But I'm so grateful, so, so grateful.
MH: And we're grateful too [laughs.] Thank you for that video going viral. You've talked openly about being very sick in 2016, suffering from chronic pain, fatigue. You mentioned you had a headache that lasted for a year and seven months. Doctors didn't know what was wrong, but after switching to a vegan diet, you said you were healed. Talk to us a little bit about your journey to becoming a vegan.
TB: Yeah, you said it, honey—2016, I started having this pain in the back of my head. It was a resting headache that was accompanied by chronic fatigue and chronic pain throughout my body. I would have just different pains throughout and just could not get up some days. And I had began to fall when I would walk, and I just couldn't get well. Doctors just couldn't figure it out. I would go week after week, month after month to the doctor, and they would do all kind of tests, MRIs, blood work. I was also a guinea pig. I would take whatever drugs they offered me to try to see if it would make anything feel better. If anything, it probably made me worse. I mean, I had injections in my head, injections in my spine, I would do anything. Even holistically, I did acupuncture. Honey, they had them needles all over me, everything, but nothing made me better.
"I want them to feel like I'm in the kitchen cooking with them."
And so my daughter came home from school one day and she was like, "Oh, mom, we saw this documentary at school, I think you should watch it." And it was What the Health. And a teenager coming home to tell you to watch a documentary, you better pay attention because that ain't happening every day, right? And so we watched it as a family, and it was a pretty instant moment for me when they started talking about not all diseases are hereditary; it’s that what we eat in the same family that causes the same disease in our bloodline, right?
And so, I was like, “hmm.” That was kind of a light bulb moment for me because I was thinking, in my family, on both sides, sickness runs very young and death runs very young. My mama died at 51. My daddy is one of 12, and he's the oldest, the only man in his family who has ever reached 70, and he's just turned 71. And so with my dad being the oldest man in his family, his brothers had died at very young ages. My aunts have had heart attacks and strokes at young ages. And the only thing that I could connect it to was how we ate. And I was like, "Oh, wow, food is our common denominator."
And so I was like, "Well, it's also the only thing I haven't tried. I haven't tried to change how I'm eating." And not that I was a bad eater. I haven't had red meat or pork since I was 15. And I was only eating fish, chicken, and turkey, but I was eating it every day, you know? And so I was like, "You know what, let's try a little 30-day vegan challenge and see what happens." And so we did a 30-day challenge as a family. In the first 10 days, the headache I had every day for a year and seven months disappeared. And I was like, "Ooh, I know I must be on to something." And I continued on the journey. So that 30-day challenge became—here we are five and a half years later—it became my life. And so that's how I began the journey of veganism.
MH: What would be your best piece of advice to someone who says they want to become a vegan?
TB: I think the best advice that I always give, and what I have to give myself all the time is, “What is your why?” Why do you want to do this? You know, there's many reasons. For me, it was for my health. It was life or death for me. But for some people, they really care about the animals and the cruelty that is upon them, unfortunately, because of the meat industry. Some people really care about the environment, right? And they really want to do better, and they want to figure out, "How can I make my carbon footprint smaller? What can I do to help the environment?" And then some people really be like, "You know what? I just want to incorporate more veggies in sometime. I don't want to go all the way vegan, but I do want to explore it." I just say, figure out what your why is. What's your why first. And if your why means something to you, you're more inclined to stick to it.So that's always the advice I give.
MH: That's a great point. You're very well known for your vegan cooking videos. But you're not necessarily a professionally trained chef. And you said that you hated cooking growing up, which is hard to believe, since it seems like you're cooking all the time now. So how did food become your passion?
TB: You know, I did hate cooking growing up, because I was a tomboy and I was outside climbing trees and stuff, and fishing and doing all the things in the country. I didn't have time to be in nobody's kitchen. I used to tell my mama and my granny, "I don't need to know how to cook. When I grow up, I'm going to be famous and I'm going to have a chef." I didn't know I was going to become that person, okay [laughs].
But when I got married, when me and my husband moved in together, I was like, "We both from North Carolina, we both from the same small town in the South"—and he is a real Southern man—and I was like, "Oh lord, I gotta feed this man and I don't know how to cook." So, I remember calling my granny, calling my mama and my aunt, and they would tell me over the phone how to make certain things.
And listen, that first year, I probably tore up more meals than we enjoyed. It was a lot of trial and error, but I learned as I went. So now I've been with my husband for 24 years, I then got good over the years. But I've never been a recipe-type person. I've always been, and my granny used to say, "You taste it as you go. Figure it out as you go." And that's what I did. And I would watch my husband eat and I would get excited about his responses, or I would be like, "Ooh, I gotta do better," because of his responses, right?
And then having children, and you gotta learn a different way to cook. Kids don't eat the same as adults. So then that became a thing. And then my own dietary restrictions over the years, learning to cook for myself and to please myself. And I was like, "Oh, okay, I just do what I want to do in the kitchen." And it just became a thing of me trusting myself in the kitchen and having fun with it.
But I really enjoy feeding people. Sometimes their soul, but their bellies, honey, it's so fun. Thanksgiving at my house, I'm like that old lady that sit back and watch everybody, like my granny used to watch you taste the mac and cheese or the potato salad, she'd be like, "Mm-hmm" and "Oh, okay, y'all like that, don't you?" It's just such a reward to see others be happy with their food. And so that's how I started, honey, and I enjoy it. I still enjoy cooking every day.
MH: That's awesome. Yeah, they say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, right?
TB: Right, listen, to all of our hearts. To all of our hearts. And I always tell people that if you can get their ear, honey, and you can let them, they'll talk to you a little bit, so you get that stomach. You get that stomach, you got their heart. Absolutely.
MH: So, trusting your instincts makes me think a lot about Cooking from the Spirit, because it isn't a traditional cookbook in the sense where there are specific measurements for every recipe.
TB: Right.
MH: It feels more like an inspirational guide. A little bit of this, a little bit of that, because it's your business, right? [Laughs]
TB: Right, right. So like that, girl, yes.
MH: And I love how you pepper every recipe, there's a personal story and anecdote, and then you also have these TSAs—Tab service announcements. It's not very common to have an audio cookbook. Why did you want to record your cookbook in audio?
TB: Well, because that's what people are used to, right? They're used to seeing me and hearing me, and so I was like, "Well, you know what? I want them to feel like I'm in the kitchen cooking with them." I got it recorded so that they can follow along. They can have the cookbook, but then to hear it as well, it'll just make for a fun experience. But it'll also feel like they really got a piece of Tab. Like, "Tab in the kitchen cooking with me," and I just think that's fun.
MH: What was it like recording the cookbook? Was it different or similar from when you recorded your memoir?
TB: It was more fun. Because the memoir was more, I couldn't really, how do I say it? You gotta really read. Even though it's my words, they want you to kind of stay on task. But with the cookbook, they're like, "This is your element, you can have fun with it and do you." And I did. And the difference also is, I got to bring my son in, because there's a moment with us where we make our raw cheesecake cups. And that was all inspired by him. And he got to come in the studio and record our conversation, and it was so much fun to do that. So, I think that's even more of a reason why people will really enjoy. It's completely different. It's something that I don't think has ever been done. And so it's really an exciting moment for me. But it was a lot of fun.
I never want to force my food or my way of life on anybody. I just want to share. But what I really hope is that people learn to trust themselves in the kitchen. That's why I didn't put measurements and all that stuff, because that's not me. I think that if we learn to trust ourselves, we can become the best cooks because we know what we like.
MH: Mm-hmm.
TB: Right? And I also know that if you don't trust yourself, you may not really know what you like. And so I hope this is an opportunity for people to get to know themselves a little bit better. So, they'll be like, "Okay, I know I do like a little bit more garlic." "Well, honey, put that in there." And I'll say that throughout the book in the Audible. You'll hear me say, "Go and add your little extra if that's your business." You know. So, that's the hope, that more trust is made with themselves.
MH: Where did your inspiration for the recipes come from? Are these a lot of the same recipes you've done on TikTok? Are they new ones?
TB: It's a combination of both really. But the majority have been done online, and over the years people would say, "Girl, you need to put this in a cookbook, we can't go back and watch the video and try to do it at the same time because TikTok is fast. It's like one minute." But all of my recipes are—well, not all of them, but the majority of them—are what I grew up eating, and I veganized it as I became a vegan. A lot of my mama's recipes that I used to love and I tried to make myself before I was vegan, and then I was like, "Ooh, I gotta make this vegan." Traditional favorites like mac and cheese. Sloppy joes and those type of things that people—lasagna—that people eat every week across America. And they may want to figure out how to make that vegan.
"I didn't put measurements and all that stuff, because that's not me. I think that if we learn to trust ourselves, we can become the best cooks because we know what we like."
And so that's how the inspiration happened. I always tell people, I didn't go vegan because I didn't like how non-vegan food tasted, I went vegan to save my life. But I still missed the flavors and the taste of non-vegan food, so I told myself, "If I'm going to go on this journey, I gotta figure out how to make those things vegan." And so that's what I did.
MH: I have to say, your carrot bacon is very inventive, and I think that's probably my favorite recipe. But do you have a favorite recipe from Cooking from the Spirit?
TB: Oh girl, I got so many of them. I love food, but I think, crazy enough, one of my favorite things is my mama's meatloaf. I think it's because the memories that are attached to it that I just love. It was just something about her meatloaf that makes me just have a different feeling, right? And even when I make it, my husband is not a huge meatloaf fan, but he'll eat it because he is like, "I know this is your favorite little thing that you like to make sometimes." But when I make it and I eat it, it's like it takes me back to a time. And so that's really a favorite of mine. And, of course, everybody I know love a taco. Love my jackfruit. But I would say, right now, that's probably my favorite.
MH: Are there any recipes that were left out of the book?
TB: Oh yeah, girl. You know, we always developing things.
MH: Is there another cookbook maybe after this one? Is this just the beginning?
TB: Well, we'll have to wait and see, but I would love in the future to do, because this cookbook is all about like, in the beginning, right? When you first go vegan and you have a lot of cravings. So, this is more for people who need their fix, as I call it. So, it's a couple of meals that are made with your full meats and things, meat substitutes, things like that. But I now am more on a whole foods diet. I don't eat that much processed food anymore, because I've been on the journey for a long time.
So, I would love to do a cookbook that's just all whole food ingredients, and show people. I mean, we have some in this one, but I would like to show them that way. And also, I'm kind of dabbling a little bit and doing a little more research on alkaline vegan. I want to try it for a little while and see how I feel about it. And then that may be something as well. So, we'll see.
MH: It sounds like it's definitely the beginning [laughs]. More and more cookbooks from Tabitha, for sure. So let's talk about your TikTok a little bit. You launched it in March 2020 and you had millions of followers in just weeks. You now have 10 million followers across all of your social media platforms. Why do you think people are connecting so much with your spirit, your energy, your inspirational messages that you're giving on social media?
TB: I think it's freedom. I think it's freedom. You know, we live in a world where people aren't their true self. They create an image that they think the world wants to see. And I know that because I did that for over 20 years, or longer. And I had to get to a place where I found Tab again and became free. And I'm just me, right? I don't try to speak correct, as they would say, you know? I don't try to be sexy, be perfect. I just be existing, and I just be who I am. And I really try to always share love and share my heart with people, share laughter and humor, inform without judgment. And I think that they feel that. I like to have a good time, but I care more about people's hearts.
"I really try to always share love and share my heart with people, share laughter and humor, inform without judgment. And I think that they feel that. I like to have a good time, but I care more about people's hearts."
And I really do love people. And I think that they can feel that. And to also see a woman who just doesn't apologize for being who she is. I think it works. I think a lot of people, that's why they kind of gravitate towards me. But then there's also a lot of people who are still uncomfortable with that so they don't watch me. Because they're not in their free self yet, so it makes them uncomfortable. And I think the majority of people just like to see a person just be them. And that's more relatable, because then that also makes you at home be like, "She just like me. We the same type of people. Tab my cousin, she my auntie, she my mama." And I don't mind any of that. I love it all. So, I feel like we're all family. That's my goal whenever I do videos, is to make you feel like we family, or that I'm just talking to you. I always hold my phone real close to my face, because I want people to feel like it's just me and you in this moment.
MH: You did an Audible Questionnaire for us last year when Feeding the Soul came out. And that video, when it landed in our inboxes, like, we all just lit up. There's just so much joy. You actually filmed it, I think, right where you're sitting, in your office.
TB: Yeah.
MH: And I just remember watching that video and just instantly feeling better. And sometimes I go back and rewatch it, just because your energy and your spirit is just so joyful. You give people a lot of joy through your social platforms.
TB: Thank you.
MH: What do you do on the days when you may need that joy or you may need uplifting? What do you do, or who do you turn to?
TB: Well, you know, for me, family is everything. I've had a couple days where just dealing with life and people, and I feel everything. A lot of people would call that an empath. But some days, I'll wake up and I just feel heavy. I'm like, "Oh, I feel sad for someone.” And I call my daddy, you know. Me and my daddy, we talk every day and he fills my cup. If ever my cup feels a little bit empty, me and my daddy can laugh and we can talk and he tell me jokes. And it's just a beautiful thing to have family like that. And, of course, me and my daddy, that's my best friend. I'm a daddy's girl. And my husband, my children, I surround myself with family, because they have the greatest ability to give me joy. They just make me so happy. But joy lives within us all. We have to choose it though, right? And, you know, God is like the center of my joy. And I never shy away from that. I always lean into it.
But I've also been in very dark places before. I've dealt with depression, during my sickness, and I made a promise to myself, "Honey, if I get out of this, I'm going to always choose joy." And so that is exactly what I do. Even when I have moments where I feel sad, I still choose joy. But I allow myself to feel, that's the thing about it. When you're a person who's generally happy all the time, it doesn't mean that you don't have bad days. It just means that I made a choice. But I still allow myself to feel my feelings, whatever those feelings may be, right? And process those feelings, and then get back to choosing joy after that.
MH: Choosing joy, I love that message. Well, Tabitha, thank you so much for your time today. It's truly been a pleasure.
TB: Aw, thank you, Margaret. I appreciate you. Thank you so much.
MH: Full of easy, family-friendly vegan recipes and personal stories inspired by Tabitha's health journey and love of delicious food, Cooking from the Spirit is a must for every kitchen. You can get it now on Audible.
