Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.

Nicole Ransome: Hi, I'm Audible editor Nicole, and I'm very excited to welcome Scheana Shay. Maybe you've seen her as the Pizza Girl in that episode of Jonas or the actress in need of a stunt double in that Victorious episode. Or you know her, like so many fans, from her over a decade stint on the hip Bravo reality TV show, Vanderpump Rules. Today, she's here to discuss all the shocking and moving revelations in her new memoir, My Good Side. Welcome Scheana.

Scheana Shay: Hi. Thank you for having me.

NR: Yes, it's great to have you. So, to start, in your memoir, you discussed what it was like for you growing up as a brown-haired, half-Mexican child in a blond-haired, blue-eyed household. You also struggled to fit into social circles when you were younger as well. How do you feel that has fed into your outlook on life?

SS: I think that how that's fed into my outlook on life is that I've always been an empathetic person. That's just how my mom raised me. But I think with what I experienced growing up as a bit of an outsider helped me expand that empathy even more. I always root for the underdog. I always want to include people. I hate when my friends are fighting and it's like, wait, only one can come to my birthday and I'm like, “No, I just want to invite everyone to everything.”

So, I definitely think growing up as a bit of an outsider, feeling like I didn't fit in, I've always wanted to be extra inclusive of everyone. Because it doesn't feel good to be left out. It doesn't feel good to be picked last on the dodgeball team, which still happens as adults sometimes. But I just like everyone to feel like they fit in.

NR: Yeah. And I've noticed that. I've even said that you are always considering all sides of every difficult situation, especially that arises on Vanderpump Rules. And that doesn't always make the audience happy.

SS: Yeah.

NR: You joke about being a people pleaser in My Good Side, can you elaborate on how that's influenced your behavior on the show?

SS: Being a people pleaser, I just always want to keep everyone happy, you know? And I feel like on a reality show that doesn't do me any favors. Sometimes you have to take a stand, sometimes you have to pick a side. I'm not good with that. I'm good with living in the gray, being Switzerland, seeing all sides. And it's made it challenging for me on TV. Also, I think, for the audience, at times, to get behind me because they're just like, "Oh my god, Scheana, pick a side. You can't be friends with everyone." And I'm like, "Yes, we can."

But you know, it kind of goes back to how I was raised: Be kind to everyone; include everyone. And I do understand the frustration the audience has behind me not picking a lane at times. But I think that is one thing I've learned now that I've gotten older—you know, I'm 40—is that you can't please everyone. You can't make everyone happy. And you know what? That's okay. It's okay.

NR: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it was really good that you stayed staunch about it in your memoir. It didn't seem like you were ashamed of being a people pleaser. It seemed like it was kind of like, “Yeah, that's who I am.” You embraced it. And honestly, I respect that. I personally think it's all right to consider all sides. Like you don't have to be the judge, juror, and executioner every time.

SS: Right, exactly. So, I do try to be better with that. But it's just something that is deep-rooted within me, and I can't completely get rid of that.

NR: Completely understand that. And your memoir is very personable and your narration is really good. What was your experience recording, not only your audiobook, but also your own memoir?

SS: Yeah, so it was so different than being in a recording booth, recording music. You know, I've never really done voiceover or anything like that. I think a couple things for an acting job, back in the day, I had to go into the booth and scream or whatever, but recording music and then recording the audiobook… At first, when I sat in the booth, I literally said out loud, I go to the engineer, "Wow, this is so much easier than recording music." And then, as I started reading the book, I'm like, "This is not easier than recording music."

"I know it sounds cliché: chase your dreams and whatnot. But truly, if you are passionate about something, don't stop until you make it happen."

I started the intro and the first chapter, and I was in my podcast hosting voice—just very peppy. And my manager goes: "Scheana, you don't have to sell the book. People have already bought the book. You know, you're just reading it." And I'm like, right, okay, so take down the sales pitch just like a notch, you know, just that tone in my voice.

So that was new territory for me, you know, just I'm not selling the book. I'm like, "And in My Good Side, you're going to find this and this." It was like, this is the story of my life. Let me tell it concisely. Let me take time in between my sentences; I don't need to ramble it off. It doesn't have to be read in this amount of time. We're not doing a reading marathon.

And when I got to some of the later chapters, on my third day for the audiobook, we only had the last two chapters to do. We saved them. I could have done it in two days, but I'm like, you know what? Chapter 16 is pretty heavy. Let's just start with that tomorrow. Took a 0.25 milligrams Xanax to just calm my nervous system. I have my water, my hot tea, and some of it I did sentence-by-sentence. I stopped, caught my breath, took a deep breath and then said another sentence. Because there's a lot of things in there that if I am telling that story, I'm going to get emotional; I'm going to be choked up. But also, I need to create an audiobook that is timeless, that I speak with conviction, that is easy to listen to. This isn't a one-off podcast episode where maybe I'm crying about a certain subject.

So that was also challenging just to still speak with emotion, but have to read these, you know, like really hard things that have happened. But I think, overall, from what I've heard, you know, the audiobook, I think I did a good job. I was able to tell my story in a way that I want people to hear it.

NR: Yeah, I second that. You did a really good job. I think that the narration was very fun. It was very lively, but you know, it was toned down in parts that were very heavy. Because of some of the sensitive topics, did you find the experience cathartic in any way?

SS: Absolutely. The whole writing process and recording, it was extremely cathartic. I've read this book so many times now, but there was something so different about reading it out loud. And there were parts when I'm writing it, where if I'm writing, I may use a different word than I normally would speaking. My vocabulary isn't as eloquent, you know, when I'm just talking on a podcast. Sometimes I can't think of the right word. But when I'm writing my book, I'm like, “No, I should use this descriptive word and this sounds a little better.”

But then, as I'm writing it, I'm like, “Okay, I need to say this out loud because it still needs to sound like me.” Even if I have a journalism degree and I want to use a fancy word, I still need to be able to say it sounding like me on the audiobook. And so there would be certain things that I would write and then I would just be sitting in my room alone, and I would say it out loud and I'm like, that sounds weird. Or, you know what? That sounds good. So, a lot of that and just figuring out, yeah, what written word read aloud word was going to sound best and get my story across.

NR: I love that. And you know, in My Good Side, there's a lot of great lessons, honestly, to be learned. You made it very clear that you will make your dreams happen regardless of the obstacles. You're now a writer, you know, putting that journalism degree to use. But whether that's working in high-end cigar bars, being an extra on movie sets waitressing, and more, what is one thing you've done in an attempt to make your dream a reality that didn't exactly pan out the way you expected?

SS: I never expected to do reality TV if I'm being honest. I wanted to be a host, I wanted to be an actress. I thought about being a news anchor. At one point, I wanted to be a doctor, and then I realized I could just play one on TV and get my fix there—not have to go to the school. But being on reality TV was not something I was really aiming to do. And it has been such a blessing. It's allowed me to do other things that I always wanted to do, and it's given me a platform to be myself and to share my lived experiences with others and to help people feel less alone. Whether that's people now realizing they have postpartum OCD, OCD in general, or just, you know, going through struggles in their relationship. I think putting it all out there, it really does help people feel seen and heard and feel less alone. And that's a path I didn't see myself taking. And I am glad that I did.

NR: I'm glad. And I know you kind of got brought into it like a little bit.

SS: Yeah.

NR: You were kind of the reason for all of this, [laughs] in my opinion. I personally think you're one of the biggest reasons that Vanderpump Rules even kicked off, because I remember that episode where you sat down with Brandi and really discussed the whole Eddie situation and, like, Lisa helped facilitate that conversation. And you also note that maybe she might have known a little bit more than what she was actually letting on to that situation.

I definitely think you had a quite a bit of a story and life story to talk about. I was actually very shocked. Like, because I think a lot of the conversations surrounding the book was also going to be like, oh, it's going to be mostly about Vanderpump, but I think you have quite a life.

SS: Yeah.

NR: And you've been through quite a bit, like the revelations about your childhood. That was an eye-opener. I definitely think it lends itself into, you know, the characteristics we see displayed in the show.

SS: Yeah.

NR: Yeah. And your quest for fame will definitely resonate with a lot of people today, regardless of how much they say it wouldn't, especially younger people who desire to be content creators, influencers and such. What advice would you give to those who are really itching to become a celebrity?

SS: Ooh. Um, to just keep going at it, you know. It's not always easy. You're going to get a lot of no’s, but then you get a yes. And to just not give up. I know it sounds cliché: chase your dreams and whatnot. But truly, if you are passionate about something, don't stop until you make it happen. You know, that's why there's so many successful entrepreneurs in this world. They have an idea, they go after it, they get it. So, whatever it is you want to do with your career, give it 100 percent. Don't half-ass anything.

NR: See, that's great advice, you know? Because honestly, you really talked about all of the different things that you did in an effort, like, working at the cigar bar, but then also still trying to make sure that your schedule worked for your auditions. And you landed the Pizza Girl gig on Jonas. You know, I actually watched that show. I loved that show!

SS: [Laughs]

NR: Yes. When I listened and I heard you say that, I was like, the Pizza Girl. Oh! I was like, she's the Pizza Girl? But when you said Victorious, I knew exactly the episode. I said, “Oh my gosh, Scheana is the lady.”

SS: So funny.

NR: She is the actress, because I love Victorious.

SS: Patrice. Yes.

NR: Yes. Patrice. Yes. [Laughs]

SS: So fun.

NR: One thing that you talked about is that you were originally a part of a lawsuit against Hooters. I actually did not know that. It really showed how vulnerable young women are in a lot of these beauty-reliant industries. What advice would you give to any person navigating the potential issues and negativities of these environments?

SS: I think if you feel something is off, something probably is off. And to always trust your gut. Because my gut told me there were things weird in the trailer that night, but I just ignored it, you know? And when you have a feeling, sometimes it is an intrusive thought. Sometimes it's an intelligent thought and to just follow your gut because so many women, especially, but so many people get caught in these situations, and it's hard when you're a trusting person. You want to see the best in people, like I do, but genuinely trust your gut. And if you're a parent, trust those parent instincts because they're usually right.

NR: Yeah. So, you were also part of the Vanderpump season that really changed the trajectory of the show. Now that the dust has settled on that situation, looking back, was there anything personally you would've wanted to do differently?

"All we can do is learn, grow and move forward and try to be a better version of ourself."

SS: For last season? So much. [Laughs] Yeah, I mean, last season I was obviously going through a silent struggle I did not open up about. I don't expect anyone to have known what I was going through when I, apparently, was a really great actress who covered it up from my own mother. No one knew.

I think, even in writing this book, I've even reflected in the last eight months or however long since I was finishing my draft. And as much as I'm like, “Oh, I wish Ariana noticed,” I'm like, “Ariana had so much going on in her own life. She had her own heartbreak she was dealing with.”

And I do wish I babied that a little more. I wish in some instances that I cared more about the friendship than the job. And that's where it gets so convoluted at times. It's: Your job is your life. Your life is your job. But it's like, she was doing her job. She was being as real, raw, authentic, and vulnerable as she needed to be. And I was hiding parts of that myself while projecting it onto Tom Sandoval, which well-deserved. He deserved the wrath of Ariana's best friend. But looking back, I wish I saw through things with him a little better. I wish I didn't necessarily take everything Lisa said at 100 percent truth. And I wish I trusted my own gut a little more, and I just wish I was more of a girl's girl because that's what Ariana deserved and I could have been better. I just was going through so much on my own and I was just trying to keep my head above water.

NR: Yeah, I think with these revelations, I think maybe your actions during the last season are a bit more humanized, if you ask me. I think that it's very much more understandable, especially, you talked about, you know, the situation or the events that happened at Transpire with Colin in your book. And that revelation to me, I personally felt some of the things that you said during that last season really made sense for sure.

SS: And that's the thing: When we sat down with Lisa and she said this to us, I'm like, having an affair, clearly cheating, it's never okay. However, it doesn't warrant the death penalty. And this person, despite the past seven months, has been an amazing friend to me for 15 years. So let's give a little bit of grace. But also the timing of it and it coming from Lisa, not it coming from Tom coming to me directly, it just, all of it, I wish we were able to handle it differently. But you know, we can't go back in time. All we can do is learn, grow and move forward and try to be a better version of ourself.

NR: Absolutely. You make a rather shocking revelation that's already making a bit of buzz on social media from what I've seen regarding your marriage to Brock. What made you decide to reveal such an intimate part of your marriage within your memoir?

SS: I felt like I wouldn't be authentic if I didn't. I felt like I wouldn't be proud of the piece of work that I've put out. I felt like I would be skipping a literal chapter from my life and leaving out a literal chapter of the book. This was something that there was already a leak about. I talk about that in the book. I didn't know how far that was going to go. There was also another person involved who, you know, at any point in time she could have come forward and said something. And the more we went back and forth with it, the more we realized, no, this does need to go in the book. Not just because we're afraid of someone telling it one day, but because this is our story to tell and how could I write a memoir and skip this? It would do such a disservice to not only the readers, but to myself. It would be inauthentic.

And after many conversations, couples therapy sessions, and a lot of tears, we decided, yeah, this is our story. This needs to go in the book. And we knew with that we would get, you know, a lot of backlash and people are going to call me a hypocrite for not being real and not being open. But at the time, I wasn't ready to open up because I was still trying to process what I was going through and being on reality TV. Yes, we do sign up to give 100 percent of our lives, but that's on our timeline. I don't have to give you something tomorrow because it was told to me last night. And that's something that I've also learned.

NR: Yes, I agree with that. There's one thing I've always said as someone who is a big fan of Bravo and the shows, I never understand when fans are like, "Oh my gosh, like why didn't they tell us?" Well, did they want to talk about it just yet? [Laughs] Like, you know, let the dust settle a little bit. Let people figure it out.

SS: Yes.

NR: Yeah. And you know, you've discussed like how impactful past cheating incidents were for you in your previous flames. How did that previous experience help you navigate this current issue in your marriage?

SS: Well, this one was different. In my previous marriage, my husband had an emotional affair. And this, it was a relationship at the time, it wasn't even a marriage, it was only a physical affair. It didn't last for very long. I don't necessarily know what's worse. They both hurt. But when you have emotions involved, that kind of takes it to another level. You can have a drunken mistake or, you know, you can do something physically that is not okay. But once the emotions get involved, you're on another level.

And I think having that happen to me first, I'm like, "Oh God, well at least it wasn't that again." But, you know, can I forgive this too? Can I be strong enough to keep the family together? Can I move on from this? Is this something I can forgive? And I didn't have any of the answers to that when we started filming Season 11. I don't know that I had them at the end of Season 11. It took me many, many months to say the words, "I forgive you," because I wasn't ready to, and I didn't forgive him immediately. It wasn't like, “Oh, well that's okay; it was two years ago. No big deal.” No, he got the wrath and a Rubik's Cube chucked at him.

NR: [Laughs] You know, I like that. You know, it's just, it's a little safer than anything else bigger. [Laughs]

SS: [Laughs]

NR: So, honestly, kudos to you. But [laughs] you did express that you really do want to have a normal like, you know, just family life, I mean with all of the hub-bub and fan expectations and you know, reality TV. You appeared on The Valley this past season. Do you think that it's still possible to achieve that normal family life?

SS: My “normal” is public. That's the thing. I don't know what it's like in my adult career and since having a family to just live a quiet private life. And I don't know that that's something I want. I think if we ever, you know, end up on a ranch in New Zealand, we're still going to be vlogging that and putting it out on YouTube. I mean, I am a public figure and until, if there's ever the day where my daughter says, "I don't want this," then we will take a different approach and path. But right now, she sees a camera, she lights up, she turns on the charm, she hits her poses.

"And I've realized that I do have a big platform to make a difference, and I want to continue making a difference."

And I've realized that I do have a big platform to make a difference, and I want to continue making a difference. You know, I'm doing work with the international OCD Foundation now. That is something I'm so insanely passionate about. And if I don't continue on a reality show, if I don't have a podcast, if I don't write another book one day, then it's like, I'm not able to share my experiences with people and help them feel less alone. So this is my norm. My life is my job. My job is my life.

NR: Yeah. And you've discussed the challenges you've had with managing your OCD, your anxiety, depression. How does a diagnosis like this affect your aspirations? Especially in terms of wanting to be an actress?

SS: Yeah, it honestly made it a lot easier. It felt like a weight was lifted off me once I finally knew what it was. Because, for so many years, I had these weird little ticks. If I dragged my right foot on the ground, I had to drag my left. If I had the TV volume on an odd number: “No, no, no, it had to go on an even number.” Just all these little things that no one ever noticed. I'm not going to tell someone that. That's embarrassing. Like, what a weirdo. And now, after speaking at the OCD Foundation—last year I accepted the Illumination Award and after attending conferences and different seminars this year—and speaking to so many people, I realized that this is something that is helping my career. It's helping me personally. It feels good to say it out loud, to normalize it, to de-stigmatize it. And I will keep doing this because I think it's so important when you have a platform to use it in the right way.

NR: What are some lessons you want to pass on to your daughter about managing OCD? Because you mentioned it was a genetic condition in your book.

SS: Yeah. So, I learned this weekend that it's not like an actual gene. Because I always thought, “Oh well, it's like genetic and there are certain things like anxiety and whatnot.” But they were saying, I took this one seminar and they're like, “OCD is not linked to this.” And I was like, “Excuse me? What did you just say?” But I'm like, I feel like it is, but I guess scientifically, technically it isn't.

But with my daughter, I try to be more mindful. My husband thankfully doesn't have OCD. My mom does. And with my mom and I, we try to do things a little differently. We're hyper aware of things that she does. And so I think that, as she gets a little older, we know what to look out for and we now have so many more tools that we're given to help if she does have OCD one day.

But whether she does or doesn't, I know that there are certain generational cycles I want to break and I think we're doing as best of a job as we can. You know, no one is perfect, no one's ever going to be perfect. But at the end of the day, we all want what's best for Summer and we have so many tools today to help our children, so much research, so many books to read and whatever she needs, I guarantee we will get that for her.

NR: So, you've written and recorded your own memoir and appeared on the most recent season of The Valley. What's next for you?

SS: Book tour. I'm very excited to go on book tour and you know, I haven't thought too far past that. That is one thing, with my OCD, is looking into the future scares the hell out of me, that I don't plan that far ahead. Whether it's season by season of a TV show or, you know, “Okay, let's plan until Summer's next summer break from school.” Um, I could tell you where I'll be through Labor Day. Past that, I don't know, just living each day—as cheesy as it sounds—to its fullest and yeah.

NR: Que sera.

SS: Mm-hmm.

NR: [Laughs] Well, thank you for taking the time, Scheana, to chat. Listeners, you can get Scheana Shay's My Good Side on Audible now.

SS: Thank you so much.

NR: Thank you.