Note: Text has been edited and does not match audio exactly.

Katie O'Connor: Hi, listeners. I'm Audible editor Katie O'Connor, and today I'm thrilled to be speaking with multi-hyphenate star and author of the memoir If You Would Have Told Me, John Stamos. Welcome, John.

John Stamos: Thank you, Katie. I've done about a hundred interviews for this book already, and this was the one I was most excited about because I am obsessed with Audible. And I'm not just saying that to kiss your ... Oh, we're not allowed to cuss, so I won't say that.

There was a time where I read books a lot. But then, you know, life gets really busy and the internet became such a thing, and so all of our attention span, especially mine, is limited. And so to be able to go and listen to this in the car ... Every single night for about the last two years, I've gone to sleep listening to books.

Here's a special story, when Bob wrote his book, Dirty Daddy, years ago, he gave it to me. "Hey, what do you think?" And I read about four pages. Like, "This is terrible.” You know?

KO: (laughs)

JS: And very dirty. It was like, the first couple pages were talking about how hot his testicles were getting by putting the laptop on his knees. I said, "Okay, great, Bob. Good job, buddy." And then dropped it. When I found out that he died, I decided for some reason to put his Audible book in my ears for sleep. And I thought, "This is really going to make me cry." And it just brought this beautiful comfort for some reason.

KO: Yeah.

JS: And I told people. I said, "I'm listening to his book." They were Like, "Oh my god. Isn't that hard?" No, for some reason his voice ... Once I got past the laptop burning his testicles, it was just, I don't know—I just felt so close to him, almost the closest I've felt to him since he passed away. And so, I just love the idea of these audiobooks.

And I ask everybody who I'm sending the book to, "Do you want the audio?" And half of them say yes. Kelly, Bob's wife, called me the other day, bawling her head off. And she said, "I read the book and, God, it just means so much to me that you really painted Bob in a way that was him." And for anybody who does not know Bob, read this book because that's Bob, you know? And that meant a lot to me.

I said, "Did you listen to it, or did you read it?" She goes, "No, I read it." And I forgot what it's like to get emotional by reading a book. (laughs)

KO: Yeah. (laughs)

JS: Because I've listened to so many. I was like, "You cried by reading words?" I guess I used to, but forget it, man. Especially when they're good narrators. Which, you can give me on a scale of one to 10: what did you think of my voice, Katie?

KO: I loved your voice, and I have to say I was blown away by your impressions too. I did not know that you had that in your arsenal. But hearing you do impressions for Sammy Davis Jr. and for James Earl Jones, for Sinatra—it just added so much to the listening experience.

JS: Thank you very much. You know, I just loved it. And I said, "Well, how long do you think it'll take me to do?" And they said, "Well, most people get it done in five days or so, and then if you have to come back ..." I took about 36 days. I'm not kidding you.

KO: Really?

JS: And I said, "I'll pay for this if I have to." Because it was so important that I get it right because I am such a fan of listening. And also, it was early enough where I could make some changes. And I asked the editor, just, "Can I change? ..." And she's like, "No. Well, you can do a line here and maybe like …" And I didn't hear that part. I just took out a chapter, I added stuff, I put in pages of stuff. And they were like, "What are you doing?"

KO: It is different.

JS: Because it's the first time I heard it out loud. Yeah.

KO: Right. Yeah.

JS: And I was cold reading it too. I mean, it's my life and I wrote it, but—I'm not kidding you, Katie—sometimes it would take me a half hour to get through one page. And I felt so awful that the editor that cut the thing together—Chris Houghton his name is. I called him up and said, "How do I thank you? I know what you're getting. You must want to pull your hair out, if you have any."

KO: I was going to say, are you and your editor still friends? (laughs)

JS: Better than ever. And, you know, he said, "Oh, no. I just love it." But after a couple hours … Richard Marx said to me, “You're going to blow your voice out right away. It's not like doing a concert for two hours or a Broadway show for a couple hours of the day." And twice, I think, I lost my voice, and I took steroids for my throat.

"Without real truth, it's paralysis."

KO: Yeah. It's physically taxing.

JS: Yes, and emotionally too. Some days, I would get a decent amount done, but other days ... I said, "I can't. I got to go home. I can't do this today. It's too much." Or, then your brain gets fuzzy, and I'm like "Tahe, taha. What's this word, T-H-E? Thate? How do you say it?"

KO: (laughs)

JS: Yeah. And they’d go, "Go home, Stamos." But it was ... I loved it. I loved it, and I love listening to it. The editor and the director over there, they were so patient with me and they just did a great job. I'm grateful to them.

KO: That's great. I did want to ask you because, in the opening of your memoir, you talk about how you've been really hesitant to write a book for a long time because of the self-examination that it forces. And so I was curious, not only did you have to pour yourself into writing it but then to go back into the studio and to reflect upon the words a second time, what that did to the emotional process of reliving some of these memories.

JS: You know, you write it and you go, "Okay, that's good." And you just let it be there and let people read it. And all of a sudden, yes, you have to read it. All the stuff came up again. Like you said, I never thought I would write a book. It wasn't something that I grew up saying. "I want to write my own book one day."

KO: Right.

JS: My father was very, "Don't talk about politics or religion. Keep it simple." You know, because it was a different time for them. So I kept that in my head for so long. But without real truth, it's paralysis. I started out to write a hero book. “Yeah, I did this, and I did that. Beach Boys!” And I was like, "This is ... I got to dig deeper." And then it just became a human story.

Hopefully, it came through—the relatable moments in my life—and hopefully, people could learn from some of my mistakes. I try to highlight those as much as I [talked about], you know, “I played with the Beach Boys in front of a million people. I got on TV!” You know, that kind of thing.

KO: Yeah. There are so many relatable moments in the book but also so much of your life has just felt kismet, just fated. Kind of as the title implies too, from getting Robin Williams’s autograph on a lark before he's famous, to the first time that you end up on the stage with the Beach Boys because you're running away from a mob, and you just happen to get trapped in a room with them. (laughs) They're like, "Come up on stage with us."

JS: Yeah. (laughs)

KO: Is there a particular moment or story that you return to that you just are like, "Man, I can't believe that this is my life?"

JS: Thousands of them. But no exaggeration, hundreds. That's where the title came [from], “if you would've told me.”

But what the book did for me is made me appreciate all the beautiful things in my life much more than I did before I wrote the book. I discovered all these things as I'm writing it too. Like you said, meeting the Beach Boys or whatever it is. For instance, I talk about my first love, and I was madly in love with this girl. Those are the moments that I hope are relatable, because I'm sure people look at me and go, "Oh, no girl would ever cheat on you. You got money, you got fame, you got the..."

Well, guess what? I got cheated on quite a few times, and heartbroken. But this one in particular, I walked in, and I caught her in bed with somebody. I remember saying, "Don't cry, John. Don't cry, John." And I ran out. I ran down her driveway, tears streaming down my face. "Mommy!" I was probably 19 or 20 or something.

Years later, I do Full House. Full House stumbles out of the gate. It was not a hit in the beginning, kind of limped along for the first season. At the end of the season, I started to like the show. I talk quite a bit about my going into that show kicking and screaming. I started to like it, and then my agent called. He said, "Well, you’re going to get your wish. The show is probably going to get canceled." I said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe there's something here. I don't know. Go back and just figure out how we can get another season of this."

And he comes back. He said, "Well, they're talking about putting it on after one of their hit shows during the summer, and if you garner an audience, they'll bring it back. And if you bring that audience with you to the second season …" And that's exactly what happened. The guy who starred in this television show was the guy that I caught my girlfriend in bed with. The show was called Who's the Boss? with Tony Danza.

But I didn't put two and two together until I started writing this. And without him and following him over the summer, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have made it. So I'm going to send him cookies or something.

KO: (laughs) Send him a box of cookies and maybe send one to the guy that punched you in high school too. I hope he gets a copy of your book.

JS: He can't read, I'm sure.

KO: I want to dig into this moment that you were just talking about with Full House when it was sort of on the precipice of cancellation. And yes, coming on after Who's the Boss? definitely helped. But one thing that really helped sway the network executives' minds was they saw an as yet unaired scene between you and Dave Coulier, and it was really your chemistry that made them stop and go, "That's it. That's the show. Let's focus there. This is what's going to turn this thing around." Can you talk about that chemistry that existed between you and Dave, and ultimately with Bob as well as your relationship with him grows?

JS: Yeah, you know, I wasn't going to write a book, as I stated, but the agents kept bugging me. They saw an article that I wrote in the L.A. Times about Bob and they said, "Well, you're a writer." I said, "I don't even remember writing that." It was such a dark time, you know.

KO: Yeah.

JS: I just kind of scribbled the thing. And then, you know, I became a father, and then Bob was dead, and then I thought about all these notes that my mother wrote me. So, all of that. So, I started with the hardest part, which I thought was going to—I'm getting to the Full House stuff, but the worst day of my life was when I was driving. I messed up—I got a DUI, and I could've killed somebody. My God. And it was just gross, writing that chapter, but I knew I had to get it out.

I didn't know if it was going to be first or whatever. It turns out it's the first chapter. I mean, the first real sentence in the book is, "Pull over, Uncle Jesse. You're f**ked up." You know, and it was like, "Oh, God." And the five stages of grief there were just … sex, drugs, bad people.

And then, the second chapter that I wrote, which turned out to be the last chapter, was the day I found out that Bob died. And then, my five stages of grief there, thank God, were health and family and therapy and prayer and meditation. So I had to figure out how to get from A to Z, and that's what the journey is.

Full House—and I never knew this—so they were going to cancel the show, and Jeff Franklin, who created the show, and Tom Miller and Bob Boyett, the two executive producers, went into ABC. And Brandon Stoddard, the [network] president, was saying, "Well, guys, we tried and, you know, it's a nice show but it's just not doing any numbers. It's probably going to be cut."

And Jeff said, "Hold on a second. I want to show you something." And the scene that he showed them was not me and Dave. It was ... well, Dave was in it, but it was me and Michelle mainly. And Brandon Stoddard apparently was just like, "Oh, my God.” They saw the chemistry between Jesse and Michelle. And Jeff said, "That's the show. You know, that's what it is. And we're doing something that no other sitcom has ever done."

And apparently, Tom and Bob, who've done every show, were like, "Okay, really? What has never been done in the history of sitcoms? " And he said, "We're raising a baby on TV." And they went, "Oh." So they gave us 'til the end of the season, because this was about halfway through. And we still were a little on the bubble, as they say. And then Tony comes around.

So I thought that those two chapters I just mentioned were going to be the hardest. The toughest chapters were the two about Full House.

KO: Interesting.

"There was no central character on that show really. The central character was love. And people need that."

JS: It was eight years, right, of my life, and I know probably most people reading want to know about it, so I felt the responsibility. Jeff Franklin, who created the show—and he's also writing a book—was asking me questions. He said, "When did you come to terms with Full House? I know it was a double-edged sword for you, and you talked about it." I said, "I didn't come to terms with that show until I wrote this book.”

KO: Wow.

JS: Until I sat down at a computer, and I was like, "Why does this show mean so much to people? What's my problem?" The critics were in my ear for many years, and I thought I should be on a more sophisticated show—they bashed the hell out of this one and Fuller House. And critics have been good to me, too, so I'm not saying anything about critics.

And then I thought, "You know what, guys and girls? Whoever wrote about me. You're not smarter than me. I know what the show is—and it’s silly at times. But what you guys are missing is, what we lose in sophistication, we've made room for the brain to move out and the heart to move in—and that's what the show was." The show is a family. And it's everybody's family. As every year that goes by there's more divorce, more same-sex marriages, more one dad and seven kids and two dads. You know, it wasn't the traditional “mom and dad support five kids,” so it became everybody's.

There was no central character on that show really. The central character was love, and people need that. And right now, discord is at an all-time high and decency at an all-time low. I think, for me and for [many] people, when you turn that show on you feel safe, you feel loved. It's a home-cooked meal—it’s comfort food.

And so those kinds of things kind of came into my mind. And as far as the critics, if you don't get it, guess what? We didn't make it for you. It's not for you.

KO: Right.

JS: What other show has the staying power that this show has 35 years later? I was like, "Why? Why? Why?" My son will watch it once in a while, and at first he was watching it to mock me, because I said, "Billy, go clean up your toys." [And he said,] "You got it, dude."

KO: (laughs)

JS: Okay. Five-and-a-half. And then there was a moment after Bob died, and him and the nanny were watching the show. I heard voices, and I came downstairs—I heard my voice and Bob's voice, and I stopped. I know Billy could see me out of the periphery. It was the scene where Jesse and Danny were talking about ... It was the Beach Boy episode, I think, and Danny was saying, "I want your life man, You have a band and you rock 'n roll.” And Jesse was saying, "I want your life, man. You have kids and you have family."

And that was us in real life.

KO: Yeah.

JS: I started to cry and cry. And Billy, in his one moment of letting me be and letting me feel, he just... He didn't say a word.

KO: Yeah.

JS: You know, really special. Yeah.

KO: That's beautiful.

JS: Yeah.

KO: That show, I think you summed it up really well. It was such a comfort for so many and remains a comfort for so many people. It gave a lot of people the feel of family that maybe they didn't have and were craving.

JS: Right.

KO: And you’re saying you raised a baby on that show. I was born a year after the show came out, and that was my show.

JS: Oh, really?

KO: Every week, I would sit on the floor. And I remember, it's the first series finale I had ever seen, and I just … I didn't understand the concept. (laughs)

JS: (laughs)

KO: And I remember sitting on my mom's floor being like, "What do you mean? What do you mean there's no more? What are you talking about?"

JS: What attracted you to it?

KO: I think what attracted me to it was I grew up with half-siblings, so it always felt like you had family but you were also kind of on the outside of it. So I loved seeing that big, blended family together all the time, and working through things together, because I was never happier than when we were all together in the same place. And just getting to see people come together like that really meant something to me.

JS: It's one of those things too where you can't cast it. You can't hope for it. You can't write to it. All the stars lined up, magic happened. It'll never happen again probably in my career. It's very rare that it happens to anybody. One of the key themes to my book, I hope, is gratitude. And by writing all this out and by talking about it, I realize how damn lucky and charmed my life has been.

And then, there was this time where I did not appreciate it—I disrespected what I had. I disrespected my parents and my family and my fans by not taking care of myself. I confused the universe, because that's not who I was. That's not how I was brought up. And, you know, I got a rude awakening. Luckily, no one got hurt. And my parents weren't around to see it, but I know they were looking down at me going, "Get it together, boy." You know?

"By writing all this out and by talking about it, I realize how damn lucky and charmed my life has been."

KO: Yeah. And you do. Your parents are a big part of this memoir. And you just mentioned too how your mom would write you little notes, and she would just jot down little things as well. And that one time you found a note where she wrote, "Don't tell me I don't have a job. I'm the CEO of this household." Which I loved. And you shared that your father never held being the breadwinner over her head—that it was a true partnership. And so I'm curious how you're taking these lessons from them and just infusing it into your own parenting journey now.

JS: Yeah. My dad had such respect for women, and so, first and foremost, we're trying to instill that into our son. I'm sure you guys do that as well. No means no—boundaries, respect. And the best way to teach this to Billy is the way I treat Caitlin in front of him, right?

KO: Mm-hmm.

JS: So that's one thing which I do. He's a character. He’s a flirt. (laughs) I wasn't me when I was younger. Caitlin said that she had a lot of boyfriends when she was five. I'm like, "What?"

KO: (laughs)

JS: I was so dorky. I was an ugly baby. It took me a while to kind of grow in. And then, when I kind of grew into maybe a little cute, I got gawky. But not [my son] … So I had a birthday party and every picture of him is with five girls. He's got Ella, Stella, Isabella, and Charlotte. I don't know how she got there, but in all the pictures the girls are fighting with each other, and Billy is in the middle like, "Hey!" At one time during the night, I came over to say hi to him, and he had all these girls and he looked at me like, "Help me, dad!"

KO: (laughs)

JS: Like, "You're on your own, son. I don't know. Let's go ride the mechanical bull. Maybe that'll do something." And it just made him more attractive. Yeah. So, what are the ages of your boys?

KO: My oldest is seven.

JS: Okay.

KO: My next guy is five, and then two-and-a-half and three months.

JS: Three months.

KO: So we're in it.

JS: You look great already. Do you feel good?

KO: I'm a little tired, thank you. (laughs)

JS: Well, yeah.

KO: Yeah, but we're good. I'm cracking up because ... So my family, unfortunately, I just lost my brother. and ...

JS: Ah, I'm so sorry.

KO: Thank you. I'm gearing up to tell my five-year-old after school. And he gets in the car and he's like, "Mama, two girls kissed me at school." (laughs) And I was like ... So what is it with these five-year-old boys? I didn't have to put up with this with my older boy. But I was like, "Way to diffuse this." (laughs) I can't jump in here now.

JS: Yeah, so you didn't. So, how long ago did you lose your brother?

KO: 10 days.

JS: Oh my God. I'm so sorry.

KO: Thanks. Thank you. Yeah.

JS: Did you see that movie, Coco?

KO: You know what? My kids can't get through it because they think the grandmother is too mean, and it freaks them out. That's like the one Disney movie that we like can't get through with them. (laughs)

JS: Well, you can, and what it shows there—and I've used this in my own heart and memory—when people die, they go to heaven. And then, if you don't keep the name alive, if you don't talk about your brother, if you don't put up pictures, if you don't tell stories, then they die again up there—and they're gone for good.

KO: Yeah.

JS: So that's, you know ... But I've lost a lot of people close to me, and my advice is, I don't know, it hurts. A piece of you is gone, and it’s never coming back.

KO: Yeah.

JS: And you just... Like a poke. You get poked like this every day. And eventually, you kind of get used to it, but it's still there. And I'm so sorry.

KO: Thank you. When you were talking about listening to Bob's memoir … That was actually the first thing I did. I went to my voicemails and I got my voicemails going just, you know, just to hear it.

But as you've said, you've experienced a lot of loss over the course of your life. You've lost your parents, you've lost these mentors, you lost Bob Saget, but you talk about remembering them with joy. So, I know you just said there is no great, perfect plan here. But for those of us that are in sort of the thick of grief, what is your advice to get to that point of remembering them with joy?

JS: Well, I don't know, Katie. I don't think there's any easy road. Here’s one thing I could say—take the hit.

KO: Yeah.

JS: Don't smash it, don't crush it down. You know, if you don't want to cry in front your boys, [let] your husband take over and go cry somewhere. And what was his name? What was your brother's name?

KO: Jerry.

JS: Jerry. And did he listen to audiobooks?

KO: No, he didn't. You know, he hadn't caught that lesson yet. (laughs)

JS: Well, I'm sure he's proud of you, and that's the thing too.

KO: Thank you.

JS: You have to think about, you know, the nice times you had, but you have to take the hit. And once you get through that, then the healing can start. But you got to go through the pain—you just have to. Because it'll stay too long. And any kind of stuff that you stuff down—certainly, hurt for a lost one or grief, or anger towards someone, harbored resentments towards people—if you don't get it out, it's going to bubble up somewhere else.

KO: Just eat at you, yeah.

JS: Yeah. Take the hit. I talk about this therapist that I go to throughout the book. His name is Phil Stutz, and that's about what he would say. Just—he would hit his chest; I'm hitting my heart—just take it.

Yeah. I’m sorry. God bless you.

KO: Thank you. I appreciate it.

JS: I bet Jerry, he was a good guy?

KO: He was a good guy, and he was a huge music fan. Yeah, we actually had some Rolling Stones memorabilia out at the funeral. Which is kind of funny.

JS: Oh, did he like the Beach Boys?

KO: He did like the Beach Boys.

JS: I knew I liked him.

KO: He was a perennial summer boy. So yeah, he was a big Beach Boy fan.

JS: Where do you guys live? Where did he live?

KO: We're in New Jersey. So, you know, lots of summers down the Jersey Shore. I would say most of the photos of him are from the Jersey Shore.

JS: Oh, that's sweet. I was just in Asbury Park with the Beach Boys a couple weeks ago.

KO: Oh, yeah?

JS: Maybe your brother was there. Because it was a big music fest—the Foo Fighters, the Killers, Greta Van Fleet.

KO: Yeah. He might have been.

JS: Oh, wow. I'll check the cloud shots that I have and see if I can find him.

KO: (laughs)

JS: Well, that's beautiful. So, you listen to music—listen to his favorite songs, I guess. You know ... Take it, just take it.

KO: Just take it.

JS: Just listen to the messages, you know, because that way you can sort of get on the other side. Not that the other side is the biggest relief.

KO: Yeah.

JS: We were in Greece this summer. My dad's been gone about 20 years plus, and I used to love to go there because I felt him around me all the time. Every person I looked at, every guy in the restaurant. And this time I went, and I didn't feel it as much—and I was bummed because I went there wanting that. And it's been so long that I felt like I was kind of forcing it. But then, I look over at my son, and Billy's talking about my dad. I go, "Oh, that's what it is. It's his turn to see my dad through his eyes and his heart.” So yeah.

KO: That's beautiful. I'd love to see sort of the legacy carrying on in that way. I did want to ask you about the Beach Boys. They've been such a huge part of your life and really sparked your love of music.

You had them on Full House with you. They were there on your wedding day. And, as you just said, you're still getting to tour with them. You were touring with them this summer. What's it like to just still be able to play with this band that you've had this love affair with really for 50 years?

JS: Yeah. Maybe not 50 but close to 40, I think, right? What's your favorite band? All-time favorite.

KO: Well, oh God, oh, this is hard. Well, I am a big Swifty, I got to be honest. I'm going to see her in Miami.

JS: Do you sing?

KO: Not well. I love to sing on my own. My kids tell me to be quiet so that they can hear the music, but my kids are huge—my five-year-old is a massive Foo Fighters fan. AC/DC. We busted them up with Metallica (laughs) in their room the other night. We're like, "Guys, the baby's sleeping."

JS: That's good—my wife plays the Barbie soundtrack over and over again, and I have to cleanse Billy with the Ramones or something. But encourage the music with them. I know you probably do. You know, for me—it gave me an identity. You know what I mean? Kids can be so confused when they don't have a purpose or an identity. And as soon as I decided I was a drummer, that's what I was. I had to practice. I had to go after school and work for it, but I was a drummer. I was proud of that. So that's a good thing if they have that.

"Honestly, when I'm up there playing drums—and if it's for 10 people or 10,000 people—I think that's where I'm most pure."

What I was getting at [before] was … Can you imagine getting on stage and singing with Taylor Swift for not once but for 30 or 40 years? I mean.

KO: Right.

JS: So yeah, I was lucky enough to. It was my first concert ever—I was 12, 13, 14. And I saw them, and I remember thinking like, "Oh, I wonder …" I hope he didn't get hurt, but I'm hoping that Mike Love comes out and says, "Our drummer Dennis Wilson broke his fingers. Does anyone out there know the songs?" And I'm going to be like, "I do! I do!"

And little did I know that (laughs) that was going to come true. Like you said, my life has been so charmed and stuff. And hopefully, maybe you're teaching your kids this. My parents never put any boundaries [on me]. They never said, "You can't do it." Anything. My dad said, "You got to work hard at it. Be the best. Work day and night, day and night." And that's sort of what I think a large part of my success was. I was just like, "Well, if I practice hard enough...”

Like, I'd never been on Broadway—I’m not a good singer. But I needed to go. I needed to be on stage, because I knew that it would change people's perception of who I [am]. It was after Full House. I'm not sure if it did, but I'm not talking about that. So, I just did.

KO: Actually, I wanted to ask, now that you're mentioning about Broadway and everything. As I said in my intro, you are a multi-hyphenate and your career really starts out as Blackie Parrish on General Hospital, but towards the end of your run on that show, you're itching to get into comedy. You wind up on Full House, and then, as you just said, you're on Broadway after that. Then, you're back on dramas with ER and You and more. So, I’m wondering, as a performer, where you do feel most at home? Is it in comedy or drama? Is it on the stage—whether that be Broadway or on stage with the Beach Boys? Or is it on the screen?

JS: If you haven't noticed, I have a little ADD.

KO: (laughs)

JS: I try not to be. Yesterday I was doing this live thing with Jamie Lee Curtis, and I was just, you know, "John, Don't move your head." And people were like, "This guy's got ADD. He's all over the place." So that's kind of how I've been in my career. My dad—I remember him saying, "You're a jack of all trades." And I'm glad I am now.

So truthfully, when I get tired of being on TV or being in front of a camera, I'll jet out and be with the Beach Boys in front of a live audience. And then, I like to go to theater, and I get to do that. Then that becomes repetitive. I've done five shows in New York. I've lived there each time, you know, and eight shows a week, the same thing over and over again, it's a lot. But honestly, when I'm up there playing drums—and if it's for 10 people or 10,000 people—I think that's where I'm most pure.

Because it's immediate, and that's what I like about theater too. There's nobody, you know, dicking with my performance—what I'm doing at that moment is what you're going to see—and I like being in front of an audience. I think my time with the Beach Boys has given me a way to take the stage, say “Here I am,” which I brought onto Broadway, which I even brought into sitcoms. When you have Full House and then shortly before, with Jack Klugman, he has a live audience. I hate to say it, but I think it's just—I love being a drummer.

KO: Yeah.

JS: Maybe five years ago, I was like, “What do I...?” Literally, my chops are for sh*t. I never really advanced as a musician. So I dug back in, you know, and I started playing drums every day and trying to learn stuff that I could never learn before.

I think that's what keeps me going too. I try to make something every day. I try to create something every day, whether it be a painting—I just started painting, you know. I gotta keep going. I gotta keep learning.

KO: Yeah. I was going to ask you—you have had this unbelievable career and it's easy to talk about legacy—but I was curious how you sort of stay in the present, and it sounds like it's that, just making sure that you are continuing on a journey of learning.

JS: Yeah, we're never finished. Right? We're a work progress, as they say. But what you just said, being in the moment. That's the hardest thing. It's very hard for me, and maybe others, but I can mainly speak for myself. It takes a lot of concentration to be right here, right now, with Katie. And I'm talking to you, and I'm thinking, and I'm listening to you. As an actor, they always talk about being in the moment, being immersed, like, "Ah, be in this moment." You know? But I got it as I got older, because if I'm not in the moment, if I'm not listening to you, I don't know what I'm going to say next. Because I don't know what you're going to say. And I don't know how I'm going to say it, because I haven't heard you say it. So if you're not right here now, you know what I mean?

KO: Yeah.

JS: And you could see people glazing over. You know, we all do it. It's hard. You're thinking about what's next, what I'm going to eat for lunch. But you got to push it back in and be here. Again, these are all things that I'm not great at. I mean, there are a lot of things I talk about in the book—it's not easy [to do], and I'm not that way all the time. I didn't want the book to be preachy. You tell me, but I wanted people to walk away going, “Oh." First of all, I want people to go, "He's a human."

KO: Mm-hmm.

JS: You know, especially a few years ago, when celebrities were not letting you look behind the curtain.

KO: Right.

JS: That's opened up a lot more, certainly (laughs). But I wanted people to go, "Oh, he's just a normal guy." I really wanted to highlight the real things about me. There's a lot, I think, right? So you go, "Oh, he's just as insecure and f**ked up as me, great. He's human. We're human." And then, maybe they can learn a little something. At least gratitude.

"I’ve set my life up now the way that it should be, right? I have a beautiful family, wife, kid. So I want to be the best at those two things. I want to be the best husband, the best dad."

And you could be grateful for the littlest things. I write it down. For a long time, I had this list, and I would list all of the things I'm grateful for. Then it just kind of comes, I call it like a grateful flow. It just comes out through the day. And it could be anything. The weather, the colors, waking up in a house next to my son, who is so dang cute. But a couple of nights ago, Caitlin was gone, and so I went and put him to bed, which I love to do. I wrote him a note when he was born. I put it in a safe, but then I started an email account for him.

And so, I write him all these emails, and emails are easier because I can talk to my phone. So the other night, he was falling asleep, but he was falling asleep on my chest here. And I said, "Billy, what's the prayer that your mom [does]?" because they made up this beautiful prayer. And he cobbles his way through it, and it was so cute and sweet. And he barely gets to the amen part, and he's out. And I take my phone, and I wrote this ... I talked about the moment. "This is what just happened."

Then in the morning, I wake up, and he’s nose to nose with me like this, big eyes, you know. "Dad!" I go, "What?" He goes, "Your breath smells like my bathroom at my school."

KO: (laughs)

JS: "Thank you, Billy, you little sh*t."

KO: (laughs) That would ground you very quickly.

JS: Right? So that's important too. I mean, I hope maybe... Do you do that? Have you done that? You write to your kids?

KO: Yeah, I have email accounts for all my kids actually.

JS: Great thing.

KO: And I send them notes and try to upload some photos too.

JS: Oh, yeah, that's right. You could put photos. I hope people get that.

KO: So what is next for you?

JS: That's a good question. Everybody says, “What's different now that you turned 60?” I bang my toes on things now all the time.

KO: (laughs)

JS: Like an idiot. I'll be walking, and bang! My little toe. And both my little toes should be in a splint or something.

I’ve set my life up now the way that it should be, right? I have a beautiful family, wife, kid. So I want to be the best at those two things. I want to be the best husband, the best dad.

And I'm very close to, if not there, contentment, and not in a bad way—like, it's bad sometimes to be too content, but you also want to take this moment where everything is right in the world, in my world, right now. I mean, not the world but in my household. My kid’s healthy, my wife is healthy, my in-laws are healthy, and my sisters are good. So I'm going to take that win today.

Certainly, in my personal life, I'm content. I have enough going in showbiz to keep me ... I don't have to be, you know, George Clooney. I don't have to be number one. I don't have to be a big movie star anymore. I mean, I am waiting for my Breaking Bad…

KO: (laughs)

JS: And someday, I'll get there. What I found in my life is that the less I try [the more] it comes. People can feel it. And when you’re so, “Gah, I gotta try!” you know, then it doesn't come to you. Like Jason Bateman—I knew him as a kid, and I’ve known him for a while—now he's just so great, and he’s done so well. I took him to lunch, and I said, "How did you ... What did you do?" And he said, "I stopped. I let go. I just let it go. I stopped trying so hard." So those are the things I think where I'm at now.

KO: And it certainly seems like you've got all these joys coming in. As a fan, it's beautiful to see.

JS: Oh, thanks. Well, I wasn't respectful to a lot of it, but it's hard. And before I wrote this book, I would say if you said, "Do you have any regrets, John?" "Well, yeah, I got this regret about that." But as I wrote it down, [got] all of it out, I can say honestly now I don't have any regrets, not one.

Because, you know, when it's written down, you can sort of see it as a graph, almost like, “If this didn't happen, that wouldn't have happened.” Sure, I would love to go back and erase all the heartache—of romantic heartache, of losing my parents, that still rings true, of losing Bob—but then, especially with the romance, like if I didn't go through this divorce, I wouldn't have known how to be the way I need to be to attract a Caitlin and have a family.

I talk about at the end in all the movies where they time travel, they go back in time. And they see how it was. The protagonist always ends up going, “You know what? It’s better now.” And that's where I'm at. I would not change a thing. And I wouldn't be here if I hadn't gone through all that.

KO: Yeah.

JS: My parents. I dedicated the book to my parents. Because of them, I have a book, and also because of them, there's a happy ending to it.

"I can say honestly now I don't have any regrets, not one ... I would not change a thing. And I wouldn't be here if I hadn't gone through all that."

KO: Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for your time, really, this has just been such a joy.

JS: It was delightful to talk to you. This format of long form interviews like this, it's so great, because writing a book and having it on Audible, it's not like an Instagram post.

KO: Right.

JS: You know, it's like, it's a deep dive. So, these interviews and these great questions you're asking are really helpful. And I hope people listen to this book, because it's me.

KO: Oh, I think they're going to.

JS: Thank you for that. And I'm sending you good vibes for your brother.

KO: Thank you very much. I appreciate your kind words and taking the time to speak his name today. It's very kind.

JS: Keep him alive that way. Tell his stories.

KO: I will.

JS: Tell people about his music that he loved.

KO: There are a lot of Jerry stories. (laughs)

JS: Ah, Jerry.

KO: (laughs) And listeners, you can get If You Would Have Told Me by John Stamos right now on Audible.