For years, Dart doubted that companies could actually make skills the building blocks of work. They felt too abstract, too static, too disconnected from real daily work. But Sandra Loughlin proved that in some cases, skills can deliver real value. In this episode, Sandra explains why skills only matter in context, why stretch assignments drive real learning, and what it takes to build a true learning organization at scale.

Dr. Sandra Loughlin is Chief Learning Scientist at EPAM Systems. She holds a PhD in educational psychology from the University of Maryland and previously taught and led learning initiatives there.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra discuss:
- Why learning is different from training—and why it matters
- How EPAM connects skills to work
- Why skills only become powerful when grounded in context
- The role of stretch assignments in developing real capabilities
- How data and human agency work together at EPAM
- What it takes to keep a skills ontology fresh as work evolves
- Lessons for leaders building organizations that truly learn
- And other topics…

Dr. Sandra Loughlin is Chief Learning Scientist at EPAM Systems, a $5 billion global engineering and professional services company. At EPAM, she integrates learning science, organizational psychology, and data to help employees and clients develop the skills needed to succeed in a fast-changing world. She holds a PhD in educational psychology and learning analytics from the University of Maryland, where she also served as a faculty member and led transformational learning initiatives, and a master’s degree in education from Harvard University. Her work has been recognized for bridging cutting-edge learning research with large-scale business practice.

Resources Mentioned:
Get discounted tickets to the Responsive Conference, featuring past Work for Humans guests Bree Groff and Simone Stolzoff – September 17–18, Oakland, CA. Use code “11fold”: https://www.responsiveconference.com/tickets
Register to attend the UWEBC Conference, where Dart keynotes the HR track alongside Ethan Mollick and Nancy Giordano – September 30, University of Wisconsin: https://uwebc.wisc.edu/conference/registration/

Connect with Sandra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandraloughlin/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

The germ theory of disease is one of the greatest breakthroughs in human history. But it took more than 2,000 years of false starts and resistance before medicine finally recognized that germs cause disease. In his book Germ Theory, Dr. Robert Gaynes unpacks why this shift was so hard to achieve. In this episode, he and Dart explore what it teaches us about paradigm shifts today: why new ideas face such resistance, how the personalities of innovators influence acceptance, and what happens when a powerful new paradigm leads us to overcorrect.

Dr. Robert P. Gaynes is an infectious disease physician and Professor of Medicine at Emory University. He is the author of Germ Theory, a CHOICE Outstanding Academic Title.

In this episode, Dart and Robert discuss:
- Why it took centuries to accept that germs cause disease
- What resistance to handwashing reveals about change
- Breakthroughs Robert witnessed in his career
- How medicine’s history reveals patterns of change
- HIV’s transformation from fatal to treatable
- What happens when new paradigms go too far
- How personality shapes whether innovations are accepted
- Lessons for anyone driving change at work today
- And other topics…

Dr. Robert P. Gaynes is an infectious disease physician and Professor of Medicine at Emory University. He chairs Emory’s Infection Control and Antimicrobial Stewardship Committees, attends at the Atlanta VA Medical Center, and has written extensively on hospital-acquired infections and antimicrobial use. He is the author of Germ Theory: Medical Pioneers in Infectious Disease, named a CHOICE Outstanding Academic Title.

Resources Mentioned:
Germ Theory: Medical Pioneers in Infectious Disease by Robert Gaynes: https://www.amazon.com/Germ-Theory-Pioneers-Infectious-Diseases/dp/168367376X
Get discounted tickets to the Responsive Conference, featuring past Work for Humans guests Bree Groff and Simone Stolzoff – September 17–18, Oakland, CA. Use code “11fold”: https://www.responsiveconference.com/tickets
Register to attend the UWEBC Conference, where Dart keynotes the HR track alongside Ethan Mollick and Nancy Giordano – September 30, University of Wisconsin: https://uwebc.wisc.edu/conference/registration/

Connect with Robert:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-p-gaynes-49b1541/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Emily Yang’s work sits at the intersection of AI ethics, governance, and human experience. She is an early advocate for bringing human-centered design and responsible innovation into the heart of enterprise AI, especially in HR and talent functions. For her, ethics is an activity — something we do, not just something we believe. In this episode, Dart and Emily talk about why AI feels both helpful and destabilizing, how bias and invisible harms emerge, and what it takes to preserve human agency as AI tools shape our work and lives.

Emily Yang is the Head of Human-Centered AI and Innovation at Standard Chartered, where she leads efforts to embed ethics, governance, and design into enterprise AI. She is a global speaker and advisor on responsible AI and human-centered innovation.

In this episode, Dart and Emily discuss:
- How AI is changing the meaning of data consent
- How training data bakes in human bias
- Why checklists aren’t the same as ethics
- Trust between people vs. trust in companies
- How design preserves or erodes human agency
- Why councils alone can’t govern AI responsibly
- Emily’s personal struggle with AI’s big questions
- How generative AI reshapes identity, craft, and trust
- The rise of “AI stewards” in organizations
- And other topics…

Emily Yang is the Head of Human-Centered AI and Innovation at Standard Chartered. She works to bring ethics, governance, and human-centered design into AI, especially in HR and talent. Emily serves on the bank’s Responsible AI Council, Data Ethics Working Group, and GenAI Task Force. She has more than a decade of experience in UX, innovation consulting, corporate venture building, and big tech. Emily began her AI journey researching empathy and emotional intelligence in virtual agents. She is also an advisor to the Centre for Synchronous Leadership’s “Agents of Change” and a frequent global speaker on responsible AI.

Resources Mentioned:
Diaspora, by Greg Egan: https://www.amazon.com/Diaspora-Novel-Greg-Egan/dp/1597805424
WFH Episode 11 with Don Norman: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-design-of-everyday-things-design-for-a/id1612743401?i=1000582265202

Connect with Emily:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilyyangy/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When we think about fixing burnout, most conversations start with purpose, work design, or leadership. But according to Jennifer Moss, the real starting point is hope. And not vague optimism, but cognitive hope—a measurable skill that gives people the power to set goals, find ways to reach them, and keep moving forward, even in uncertain times. In this episode, Dart and Jennifer discuss the link between hope and purpose, the warning signs of hopelessness at work, and what leaders can do to build cultures where people thrive.

Jennifer Moss is an award-winning journalist and author of The Burnout Epidemic and Why Are We Here? She’s a leading expert on workplace well-being who has advised Fortune 500 companies, governments, and the UN.

In this episode, Dart and Jennifer discuss:
- Why hope comes before purpose
- How hopelessness shows up in workplaces today
- How micromanagement kills hope
- The “language of permanence” as a red flag
- Moving from empathy to compassion in leadership
- What organizations can do to steward hope at scale
- How community and belonging fuel hope at work
- Why self-care alone won’t fix burnout or despair
- Practical ways leaders can build pathways and agency
- And other topics…

Jennifer Moss is an award-winning journalist, international speaker, and workplace culture strategist recognized globally as a leading voice on burnout and well-being. She is the author of Unlocking Happiness at Work, The Burnout Epidemic and Why Are We Here? A former member of the Global Happiness Council and co-founder of the Work Better Institute, Jennifer has advised governments, the UN, and dozens of Fortune 500 companies on building cultures where people can thrive. Her work has earned honors including Canadian Innovator of the Year, International Female Entrepreneur of the Year, and a Public Service Award from the Office of President Obama.

Resources Mentioned:
Why Are We Here?: Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants, by Jennifer Moss: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Are-We-Here-Creating-ebook/dp/B0CT6NB5Q3
The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It, by Jennifer Moss: https://www.amazon.com/Burnout-Epidemic-Rise-Chronic-Stress/dp/1647820367

Connect with Jennifer:
Website: https://www.jennifer-moss.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenleighmoss

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Sam Arbesman writes deep, beautiful books about the boundary between technology, knowledge, and wonder. His most recent book, The Magic of Code, is another profound exploration—this time into the wonders revealed by code. Sam describes code as “a universal force—swirling through disciplines, absorbing ideas, and connecting worlds.” In this episode, Dart and Sam talk about the experience of coding: what makes it great, when it feels arduous or magical, and how AI could change the experience.

Sam Arbesman is a complexity scientist trained in computational biology and applied mathematics. He is the author of The Magic of Code, Overcomplicated, and The Half-Life of Facts. Sam is currently Scientist in Residence advising on emerging trends at Lux Capital—a venture firm investing at the outermost edges of what’s possible.

In this episode, Dart and Sam discuss:
- The experience of writing software—and how to improve it
- How Sam first discovered the magic of code
- When code feels magical and why
- How simple tools spark creativity
- Two ways to see computing: utilitarian vs. wondering
- The joy of coding just for yourself
- What simulations teach us about reality
- How coding reframes how we see the world
- The hidden connections and limits of debugging
- How AI could reshape coding and create leaner teams
- Why the history of computing matters
- And more…

Sam Arbesman is Scientist in Residence at Lux Capital, where he advises on emerging trends at the edges of science and innovation. Previously he was a Senior Scholar at the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation and a Research Fellow at Harvard. His work has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Wired, Wall Street Journal, and Harvard Business Review. He holds a PhD in computational biology, and is the author of The Magic of Code, Overcomplicated, and The Half‑Life of Facts.

Resources Mentioned:
The Magic of Code: How Digital Language Created and Connects Our World―and Shapes Our Future, by Sam Arbesman: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Code-Language-Connects-World_and/dp/1541704487/

Connect with Sam:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arbesman/
Website: https://arbesman.net/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Bree Groff’s new book, Today Was Fun, pushes the reset button on expectations about work. There is no reason work can’t be fun. About half of the things that make it un-fun are self-inflicted—we can just stop doing them. Take off the serious-people costume. Stop all performative work. Take a nap that is for you, not just to recharge for more work. Stop suppressing emotions. Have fun with work friends, and keep work in its place—a good part of life, but not your whole life.

Bree Groff is a former partner at SYPartners and a transformation expert who helps organizations lead through change. With a background in systems thinking and behavioral science, she works at the intersection of strategy, leadership, and culture.

In this episode, Bree and Dart discuss:
- Why most transformation efforts fail
- The role of rituals in driving behavior change
- What leaders often get wrong about resistance
- Why relationships matter more than strategy
- How to build “cozy teams” and why that matters
- Designing systems that reinforce cultural shifts
- The emotional and ethical case for fun at work
- Why professionalism often kills creativity
- How to know if it’s time to leave your job
- What it means to “shoot straight with love”
- What Bree means by putting “laughing” on your KPIs
- And other topics…

Bree Groff is a transformation expert who helps leaders and organizations navigate complex change. A partner at SYPartners, she works at the intersection of strategy, culture, and human behavior, bringing together systems thinking, design, and behavioral science to shape workplaces that actually work for people. She’s also the author of Today Was Fun, a book that rethinks our relationship with work and makes the case for putting joy and humanity at the center of it. Bree is a frequent speaker on the future of work and teaches graduate courses on innovation and organizational change at Northwestern University.

Resources Mentioned:

Today Was Fun: A Book About Work (Seriously), by Bree Groff: https://www.amazon.com/Today-Was-Fun-About-Seriously/dp/1774585596

Connect with Bree:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bree-groff/
Website: https://www.breegroff.com/home

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Sandra Waddock has spent decades exploring the systems beneath the systems, asking questions about purpose, story, and the deeper operating logic of business. Sandra argues that the current model focused on growth, control, and short-term profit is no longer serving people or the planet. Instead of fixing surface-level symptoms, she invites us to reimagine the foundational assumptions business is built on.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra talk about the myths that drive our current system, the limits of control, and the power of new narratives. They explore leadership as sensemaking, how small actions can shift big systems, and what it means to build organizations that support life, not just profit.

Sandra Waddock is a professor at Boston College and a leading voice on systems change, corporate responsibility, and sustainable business. She’s the author of Catalyzing Transformation and has earned multiple lifetime achievement awards for her work.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra discuss:
- Why business needs a new operating system
- The myths that hold outdated systems in place
- How to shift from control to connection
- Leadership as sense-making
- Why small wins matter more than we think
- The role of moral imagination in business
- Designing for flourishing, not just growth
- And more…

Sandra Waddock is the Galligan Chair of Strategy, Carroll School Scholar of Corporate Responsibility, and Professor of Management at Boston College’s Carroll School of Management. A globally recognized expert in systems transformation, corporate responsibility, and sustainable enterprise, her work brings together systems thinking, narrative change, and human development to explore new models for business. She has received multiple lifetime achievement awards, including honors from the Principles for Responsible Management Education (PRME), Humboldt University, and the Humanistic Management Network. Sandra’s latest book, Catalyzing Transformation, offers a practical framework for driving large-scale systems change.

Resources Mentioned:
Sandra’s Book, Catalyzing Transformation: Making System Change Happen: https://www.amazon.com/Catalyzing-Transformation-Making-System-Change/dp/1637425082

Connect with Sandra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-waddock/
Profile: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/carroll-school/faculty-research/faculty-directory/sandra-waddock.html

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

As one of the world’s leading experts on customer centricity, Peter Fader noticed that many businesses were making a critical mistake: they were treating all customers the same. Peter argues that customer centricity means focusing on the customers who matter most—those who are truly driving value for your company. His work is reshaping how businesses think about growth, loyalty, and strategy.

In this episode, Dart and Peter talk about why not all customers are created equal, how to measure true customer value, and why brand loyalty may be overrated. They also explore what it takes to design a business around your best customers and why doing so might be the most human move of all.

Peter Fader is a Professor of Marketing at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and a leading expert on customer centricity. His research helps companies identify their most valuable customers and build strategies around them.

In this episode, Dart and Peter discuss:
- Why product-first thinking holds companies back
- How loyalty programs often reward the wrong people
- What customer lifetime value really tells you
- Why probabilistic models beat classic segmentation
- How personas can hide what customers actually do
- The power of small wins in shifting company mindset
- What top customer-centric brands get right
- And other topics…

Peter Fader is the Frances and Pei-Yuan Chia Professor of Marketing at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the co-founder of Theta, a company that helps firms value their customer base. Peter is the author of Customer Centricity and The Customer-Base Audit, and his research has been featured in outlets including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Economist, and Harvard Business Review. Through his work, he helps companies identify their highest-value customers and build strategies around them.

Resources Mentioned:
Customer Centricity: Focus on the Right Customers for Strategic Advantage, by Peter Fader: http://amazon.com/Customer-Centricity-Customers-Strategic-Essentials/dp/1613630166

Connect with Peter:
Profile: https://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/profile/faderp/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterfader

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.