Kentaro Toyama spent a decade designing technologies to fight global poverty and improve education and health. As co-founder of Microsoft Research India lab, he made a troubling discovery – innovative technologies can’t create change on their own. Realizing that social progress depends more on people than on the technology they use, Kentaro became a self-proclaimed “geek heretic” who now teaches others the importance of putting people over tech.

Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy. Kentaro is also the co-founder of Microsoft Research India, where he helped grow the lab into 60 full-time research staff.

In this episode, Dart and Kentaro discuss:
- Why technology needs a human touch to succeed
- Kentaro’s leadership at Microsoft Research India
- The 10 fallacies of technology
- Why the most important areas of focus are unmeasurable
- The pitfalls of focusing on the end-goal
- How to create societal change
- Innovation versus tried-and-true approaches
- The law of amplification
- 3 elements of intrinsic growth
- And other topics…

Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan School of Information, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and Transformative Values at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy: Rescuing Social Change from the Cult of Technology. Before moving to Michigan, Kentaro co-founded Microsoft Research India, where he helped grow the lab into 60 full-time research staff.

Kentaro received his PhD in Computer Science from Yale and his bachelors in mathematics from Harvard University. He went on to establish the Technology for Emerging Markets research group, which investigates how the world’s poorest communities interact with technology and ways to support socioeconomic development. Kentaro is also a former researcher for UC Berkeley and former co-editor-in-chief of the Information Technologies and International Development journal.

Resources mentioned:
Geek Heresy, by Kentaro Toyama: https://www.amazon.com/Geek-Heresy-Rescuing-Social-Technology/dp/161039528X

Connect with Kentaro:
www.kentarotoyama.org

Work for Humans wants to understand what people want from work – but every perspective is different. One person’s dream job is another person’s nightmare, making it challenging to define fulfilling work. Derek Sivers captures this struggle in his book, How to Live, which presents 27 drastically different yet equally valid life views. Through his work, Derek guides others in shaping their own meaningful and unique lives.

Derek Sivers is an author, entrepreneur, and speaker known for founding CD Baby, the largest seller of independent music of its time. After selling CD Baby for $22 million in 2008 and donating all the money to charity, Derek began writing and sharing his insights on business, creativity, and living a fulfilling life.

In this episode, Dart and Derek discuss:
- How our beliefs direct our actions
- The 27 ways to live from Derek’s book
- Crafting a company’s personality
- Using beliefs as a listening tool at work
- Derek’s biggest surprise in writing How to Live
- Nature vs. nurture
- Data models as philosophical experiences
- And other topics…

Derek Sivers is an author, entrepreneur, and speaker known for founding CD Baby, once the largest seller of independent music. Derek sold CD Baby for $22M in 2008 and donated all the money to charity, transitioning to writing and sharing insights on business, creativity, and personal development. His books, such as How to Live, offer practical advice and philosophical reflections on living a meaningful life. His latest book, Useful Not True, will be released in 2024.

Resources mentioned:
How to Live, by Derek Sivers: https://www.amazon.com/How-Live-Conflicting-Answers-Question/dp/B09JBMN6Q7
Useful Not True, by Derek Sivers: https://sive.rs/u
“50 Conversations in Bangalore and Chennai,” by Derek Sivers: https://sive.rs/meet-chbg

Connect with Derek:
https://sive.rs/

Paul Zak has been on a quest for two decades to understand the neuroscience of human connection, human happiness, and effective teamwork. From the Pentagon to Fortune 500 boardrooms to the rainforest of Papua New Guinea, Paul’s research has now led him to found Immersion Neuroscience, the first company to track and measure real-time immersion in experiences. His latest book, Immersion, uses 50,000 brain measurements to show readers how to create high-impact marketing, entertainment, training, customer experiences, and employee experiences.

Paul J. Zak is an acclaimed professor, speaker, and neuroscientist who is ranked in the top 0.3% of most-cited scientists worldwide. During his career, he started the interdisciplinary fields of neuroeconomics, neuromanagement, and neuromarketing. Paul has written three general audience books, is a 5-time TED speaker with over two million views, and has spoken to audiences across 30 countries, including recent talks at NATO Supreme Headquarters, Google, Facebook, and Harvard University.

In this episode, Dart and Paul discuss:
- What it means to be immersed in your work experience
- Work as a social-emotional hub
- How oxytocin creates trust, empathy, and care at work
- 2 things you need to create an extraordinary experience
- The research behind effective advertising
- Neuromanagement
- The connection between autonomy, mastery, and job satisfaction
- Scientific reasons why dogs are better than cats
- And other topics…

Paul J. Zak is an acclaimed professor, speaker, and neuroscientist who is ranked in the top 0.3% of most-cited scientists with over 180 published papers and more than 19,000 citations to his research. His two decades of research have taken him from the Pentagon to Fortune 500 boardrooms to the rainforest of Papua New Guinea. During his career, he has also started several interdisciplinary fields including neuroeconomics, neuromanagement, and neuromarketing. He has written three general audience books, is a 5-time TED speaker with over two million views, and has spoken to audiences across 30 countries.

Paul is the founder of Immersion Neuroscience, the first company to track and measure immersion in experiences in real time. His latest book, Immersion, identifies the neurologic basis for extraordinary experiences and uses 50,000 brain measurements to show readers how to create high-impact marketing, entertainment, training, customer experiences, and employee experiences.

Paul holds his doctorate in economics from the University of Pennsylvania and completed post-doctoral training in neuroimaging at Harvard University. He has taught at Caltech, Arizona State University, UC Riverside, and USC Law and is a current professor at Claremont Graduate University.

Resources mentioned:
Immersion, by Paul J. Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Immersion-Science-Extraordinary-Source-Happiness/dp/1544531958

Connect with Paul:
https://www.getimmersion.com/
https://pauljzak.com/

Matt Higgins was a struggling teen, working at McDonald’s for $3.75/hr to put food on the table for his ailing mother. When he saw the pay increase offered to college students, he decided to do something unorthodox; he dropped out of high school, got his GED, and enrolled in college. Adults tried to talk him out of it, but Matt knew this was the right choice for him.

This was Matt's first "burn the boats" moment, but it wasn't his last. In fact, Matt believes this burn-the-boats mindset has defined his career, and has led him to places like Shark Tank, Harvard Business School, and beyond. Today, he joins us on Work For Humans to discuss the Burn the Boats philosophy.

Matt is the co-founder and CEO of RSE Ventures, a private equity firm that incubates and invests in enterprises like the International Champions Cup, RESY, and the Drone Racing League. He is the recipient of the Ellis Island Medal of Honor, a current executive fellow at Harvard Business School, and the author of Burn the Boats.

In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:
- How backup plans subvert our potential
- Emotional intelligence and intuition in decision-making
- Using anxiety to drive us
- Assessing opportunity costs
- Extracting value from negative situations
- Acting early and taking risks for greater results
- Elon Musk and Twitter
- And other topics…

Matt Higgins is an operator, investor, business builder, and co-founder and CEO of RSE Ventures. Matt Began his career as the youngest press secretary in New York City, later becoming an executive for the New York Jets and the Miami Dolphins. As CEO of RSE Ventures, Matt and co-founder Stephen Ross have helped establish enterprises like the International Champions Cup, RESY, and the Drone Racing League.

Matt received his bachelor’s degree from Queens College and his JD from Fordham University. He was a guest shark on ABC’s Shark Tank and is an executive fellow at Harvard Business School. In 2019, Matt received the Ellis Island Medal of Honor for making it his mission to share his wealth of knowledge with those less fortunate. Matt recently published his first book, Burn the Boats, to continue to inspire others to toss Plan B overboard and go all in on Plan A.

Resources Mentioned:
Burn the Boats, by Matt Higgins: https://www.amazon.com/Burn-Boats-Overboard-Unleash-Potential/dp/006308886X

Connect with Matt:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-higgins-rse/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mhiggins/?hl=en
www.BurntheBoatsBook.co

Work for Humans host Dart Lindsley experienced a distressing moment in the hospital when his father was left in a wheelchair facing a wall while awaiting radiology. This small but significant oversight in the hospital's system pointed to an issue in many major systems – a lack of human-centered care. Recognizing these widespread oversights, design and strategy expert Deirdre Cerminaro seeks to address such problems through human-centered systems thinking. By redesigning systems to prioritize human experiences, Deirdre now teaches others how to problem solve by combining systems and human-centric design.

Deirdre Cerminaro is a creative strategist, IDEO U instructor, and speaker who excels in organizational design, strategy, and human-centered systems thinking. With over 15 years of experience, including her time as an architectural designer and former Executive Director at IDEO, Deirdre is dedicated to using systems design to build a more equitable future. Her notable projects range from launching a venture to close the digital skills gap in Latin America to building a global DE&I framework for a Fortune 10 Company.

In this episode, Dart and Deirdre discuss:
- How Deirdre designs her own experience of work
- Human-Centered Systems Thinking
- Real-world problems combining systems and human-centric design
- Deirdre’s experience creating and scaling a K-12 school system internationally
- The relationship between mental models and systems
- Best practices in systems mapping
- How to use the “Zoom In and Zoom Out” design tool
- Managing trade-offs between stakeholders
- And other topics…

Deirdre holds a B.A. in Cognitive Science and an MBA from Yale University. Beyond her professional achievements, Deirdre spends as much time as possible outdoors. She has cycled across the U.S. twice and also hiked the 211-mile John Muir Trail.

Resources mentioned:
“Got a wicked problem? First, tell me how you make toast” TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_wujec_got_a_wicked_problem_first_tell_me_how_you_make_toast?language=en

Connect with Deirdre:
Website: www.hellodeirdre.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrecerminaro/

IDEO U Human-Centered Systems Thinking course: https://www.ideou.com/collections/courses/products/human-centered-systems-thinking Use Promocode SYSTEMSDESIGN for 20% before August 1st

Joe Pine has a knack for seeing workplace trends ahead of others. As a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, he has helped organizations innovatively increase economic value for over three decades.

Joe is a pioneer behind the experience economy, and he is now trailblazing the concept of a transformation economy in his latest book. Join us as we discuss the fifth and final economic offering and how it can impact employees and customers alike.

Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups.

In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:
- Joe’s latest writing project on the transformation economy
- Examples of transformative experiences
- The economic value of customer transformation
- How to recognize different types of transformation
- Work as a transformation offering
- The correlation between transformation and wealth
- How to create transformative experiences for individual aspirations
- Joe’s outlook on the experience-design profession
- And other topics…

Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Northeastern University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years. He is now pioneering the idea of a Transformation Economy through the development of his latest book.

Joe is a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, a lecturer at Columbia University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.

Resources mentioned:
The Experience Economy¸ by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975
Mass Customization, by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727
Work, Pray, Code, by Carolyn Chen: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Pray-Code-Becomes-Religion/dp/0691219087
The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227
The World Experience Organization Summit: www.WorldXO.org

Connect with Joe:
https://transformationsbook.substack.com/
www.StrategicHorizons.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/

Many people offer predictions about the future of work, but only a handful are trained futurists who know how to influence that future effectively. Reanna Browne stands out by making the future of work her specialty. With a thorough academic background and a decade of experience in strategic foresight, Reanna guides public, private, and start-up companies in navigating change, cultivating resilience, and using the present to shape a more promising future of work.

Reanna Browne is an academically trained futurist, former elite athlete, and the founder of Work Futures, a global consultancy firm specializing in strategic foresight. She is a leader in her field and has earned recognition as one of the “World’s Top Female Futurists” among fellow practitioners.

In this episode, Dart and Reanna discuss:
- The field of futures and foresight and the job of a trained futurist
- The largest misunderstandings we have about the future
- How to use the present to change what lies ahead
- What led Reanna to study the future of work
- The largest changes we see emerging around work
- Steps we can take today to change the future of work
- And other topics…

Reanna Browne is an academically trained futurist, former elite athlete, and the founder of Work Futures, a global consultancy firm specializing in strategic foresight. With over a decade of experience in strategic workforce planning, Reanna guides public, private, and start-up organizations in navigating change, cultivating resilience, and using the present to shape a more promising future of work. She has been recognized as one of the “World’s Top Female Futurists” by fellow practitioners.

Presently, Reanna serves on the Future of Work Advisory Panel for the Australian HR Institute, drawing on her extensive academic background. She holds an MA in Strategic Foresight from Swinburne University and a post-graduate qualification from the University of the Sunshine Coast in Australia. She is also a distinguished graduate of the Finland Futures Academy and the Shillington School of Graphic Design.

Resources mentioned:
Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned, by Kenneth O. Stanley: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Greatness-Cannot-Planned-Objective/dp/3319155237
“The Bitter Lesson,” by Rich Sutton: http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
Enlightenment Now, by Stephen Pinker: https://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0525427570

Connect with Reanna:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reannabrowne
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurist_reanna/
Work Futures: https://workfutures.com.au/

Artificial intelligence technologies are transforming our world, with innovations like LLMs and VR becoming part of everyday life and the workplace. Marlene de Koning, HR tech and experience expert, sees an opportunity to enhance employee well-being by improving how we use these technologies at work, bridging the gap between technology and business strategy.

Marlene de Koning is the author of HR Tech Strategy and the Director at PwC Nederland, where she leads the HR Tech & Digital team. With over a decade of experience in the HR and employee experience industry, she has worked extensively with global clients such as LinkedIn and Microsoft to enhance the world of work.

In this episode, Dart and Marlene discuss:
- Technology-driven employee experiences
- The misuse of HR technology
- How LLMs, AI, and AR are impacting the work experience
- Surprising areas where companies are using augmented reality
- One vital skill new technologies will demand
- Differences between human capital and human capability management
- 5 stages of hybrid work
- Personalizing work experience through technology
- And other topics…

Marlene de Koning is an author, start-up mentor, and the Director at PwC Nederland, where she leads the HR Tech & Digital team. With over a decade of experience in the HR and employee experience industry, she has worked with global clients such as LinkedIn and Microsoft to enhance the world of work. Her latest book, HR Tech Strategy, dissects the formula for aligning technology-driven employee experiences with profitable business results.

Within Microsoft, Marlene worked on the Microsoft Startups team, served as the Director of Solutions Design for Workplace Intelligence and Director of GTM Strategy, and consulted as the Director of Work & Employee Experience. During her time with LinkedIn, she served on Team Lead Solutions, as a Senior Solutions Consultant and Global Project Lead, and New Product and Solutions Consultant for Northern Europe.

Resources mentioned:
HR Tech Strategy, by Marlene de Koning: https://www.amazon.com/HR-Tech-Strategy-Revolutionizing-Experience/dp/1637425678

Connect with Marlene:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marlenedekoning
PwC Nederland: https://www.pwc.nl/nl.html