In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes back Rick Doblin, Ph.D., Founder and President of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a deeply personal and visionary conversation on the recent FDA rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-306/?ref=278

Rick opens up about the painful setbacks, internal missteps, and his own process of recovery and renewed hope. He explains why this isn’t the end—but a critical turning point for psychedelic medicine.

Rick and Paul unpack the nuances of drug plus therapy, exploring why context, integration, and culture matter as much as pharmacology. They reflect on the future of MAPS, the psychedelic renaissance beyond FDA approval, and how business, politics, and spirituality intersect with healing. The episode also explores Rick’s enduring belief in public benefit models, global collaboration, and the potential of a spiritualized humanity.

Rick Doblin, Ph.D., is the Founder and President of MAPS. He received his doctorate in Public Policy from Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, and has spent nearly four decades advancing the safe and legal use of psychedelics and marijuana through science, education, and advocacy.

Highlights:

• The cost of MAPS' quiet period
• Why MDMA therapy was rejected by FDA
• Pharma vs. therapy: What’s best for patients?
• Drug-only treatments vs. integrated therapy
• Ibogaine’s role in brain healing and PTSD
• MAPS’ path forward: Phase 4 vs. Phase 3
• What the Dutch got right about MDMA
• Spiritualized humanity and self-transcendence
• The global impact of MAPS’ work
• Business, love, and psychedelic ethics

Want to attend this year’s Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference? For our community: Use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off registration. Learn more and register at psychedelicscience.org — See you there!

Episode Links

• Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference
• MAPS Website
• Psychedelic Science on Instagram
• MAPS on Instagram
• Psychedelic Science on LinkedIn
• MAPS on LinkedIn
• Psychedelic Science on X

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Bryan Hubbard, a prominent advocate for psychedelic-assisted therapies, particularly ibogaine in the treatment of opioid addiction and mental health disorders.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-305/?ref=278

Update (May 2025): Days before this episode's release, the Texas House approved a Senate-backed bill to fund ibogaine research through a public-private partnership aimed at securing FDA approval. This vote marks a major milestone in the movement Bryan describes throughout this conversation.

Bryan shares his journey from leading Kentucky's Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission to spearheading breakthrough ibogaine research initiatives in Texas. He articulates ibogaine's unique neurological properties, discussing how it can reset brain neurochemistry in 36 hours and potentially treat conditions from traumatic brain injury to Parkinson's disease. The conversation explores the spiritual dimensions of ibogaine experiences, the political landscape surrounding psychedelic medicine, and Bryan's ongoing efforts to medicalize ibogaine through FDA drug development trials, highlighting Texas as the next frontier for this life-saving research.

W. Bryan Hubbard is the Executive Director of the American Ibogaine Initiative. He is the first and former Chairman and Executive Director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission. He concurrently served as Special Counsel to the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Control and was its prior Executive Director. He served on the Kentucky Judicial Commission on Mental Health, the Kentucky Child Support Guidelines Commission, Mine Safety Review Board, and the Kentucky Office of Drug Control Policy’s Recovery Ready Communities Advisory Council. He previously served as Commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Income Support wherein he led the Commonwealth’s Social Security Disability and Child Support Enforcement systems. He practiced workers’ compensation law representing Walmart, Tyson Foods, and Tennessee Valley Authority for sixteen years. During his practice years, he observed the predacious onset of Kentucky’s Opioid Epidemic amid generational joblessness, poverty, disability, and substance use. He was raised in Virginia’s coalfields and is the proud grandson of two grade-school educated coal miners on whose shoulders he stands.

Highlights:

• Why ibogaine interrupts addiction instantly
• The Stanford study that changed everything
• Resetting brain neurochemistry in 36 hours
• From Parkinson's to PTSD: Ibogaine's broad applications
• The spiritual awakening dimension of treatment
• How pharmaceutical interests block breakthrough medicine
• Kentucky's lost opportunity: $42 million for research
• Texas as the new frontier for ibogaine medicalization
• Matrix pharmacology: Ibogaine's intelligent mechanism
• The political war over life-saving psychedelic medicine

Episode Links

• Website
• American Ibogaine Initiative
• Instagram: @w_bryan_hubbard
• X (Formerly Twitter): @w_bryan_hubbard
• Linkedin

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Pedram Shojai, known as The Urban Monk, a former Taoist monk and doctor of Oriental medicine.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-304/?ref=278

Pedram shares his journey from intensive martial arts training under one of the last living descendants of a Daoist monastery to bringing ancient wisdom into modern life. He discusses the challenges of integrating monastic practices into householder living, the relationship between physical vitality and spiritual growth, and offers a balanced perspective on psychedelics. Dr. Shojai explores the importance of strengthening one's vessel before seeking peak experiences, the risks of "shortcut spirituality," and how ancient contemplative practices can help us live with greater presence in today's fast-paced world.

Dr. Pedram Shojai is the founder and director of The Urban Monk Academy and the New York Times bestselling author of Rise and Shine, The Urban Monk, The Art of Stopping Time, Inner Alchemy, Exhausted, Trauma, Focus, and Conscious Parenting.

He's the producer of the movies Vitality, Origins, Prosperity, and The Great Heist, as well as the docuseries Interconnected, Gateway to Health, Exhausted, Trauma, Conscious Parenting, Hormones Health & Harmony, and Gut Check.

He hosts "The Urban Monk" podcast and is a key influencer in the health and personal development space. As a prominent physician in the functional medicine space, he's known for his ability to bring people together around ideas that matter.

In his spare time, he's a kung fu–practicing world traveler, a fierce global green warrior, an avid backpacker, a devout alchemist, and an old-school Jedi biohacker working to preserve our natural world and wake us up to our full potential.

Episode Highlights:

• From Kung Fu to contemplative practice
• The path of the "fire monk"
• Strengthening the vessel before spiritual work
• The life garden: mindful householder practice
• Vitality as prerequisite for spiritual growth
• Integrating ancient wisdom into modern life
• Jing, Qi, and Shen: energy management principles
• Nervous system preparation for psychedelics
• Awareness as background process, not app
• Atlantis origins of contemplative practices

Episode Sponsor:

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout