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Rudy dives headfirst into cyanuric acid — CYA, stabilizer, conditioner — the most misquoted, weaponized, and argued-about chemical in the pool industry. He breaks down what the science actually says about HOCl in stabilized water, why that old HOCl / OCl⁻ chart belongs in a museum, how CYA really impacts ORP, TA, and LSI, and why “chlorine lock” is less supernatural curse and more “you nuked the stabilizer and fed the biofilm.”

Between the chemistry deep dive, Rudy hits the global pool-industry newswire: PHTA’s APSP-11 rewrite, bromate and sodium bromide drama, media consolidation across major trade mags, massive international trade show attendance, European trends in energy-efficient builds, Australian code delays, and South American market movement. If you’re running a pool business in 2025, this episode hits both your test kit and your bottom line.

In This Episode

• CYA: Not the Villain, Not the Hero, Just Misunderstood
  Why cyanuric acid became “chlorine’s sunscreen,” how chlorinated cyanurates actually work, and why CYA got popular in the first place — because it works, not because a committee was bored in the ’60s.
• Why the Classic HOCl Chart is Garbage in Stabilized Pools
  
• Real HOCl Percentages at Common CYA Levels
  
• Copper Cyanurate Stains & “Prom Night Blue” Plaster
  
• CYA, Total Alkalinity & LSI: The Secret Sabotage
  
• ORP Suppression & Why Stabilized Pools Read “Low”
  
• Chlorine Lock is a Myth
  
• The Holy Sh*t Zone: CYA at 300 ppm and Up
  
• Alum Method to Lower CYA – How to Do It Right
  
• Fecal Incidents, CYA, and the Law (CDC Crypto Protocols)
  
• Does CYA Really Buffer pH? The Honest Answer
  
• Best-Practice CYA Targets
  

Global Trade Magazine News Roundup

Rudy also runs through the week’s biggest stories from around the world:

• PHTA’s APSP-11 Water Quality Standard Rewrite
  
• Record Global Attendance at the 2025 PSP/Deck Expo in Vegas
  
• Pool & Spa News – Top 50 Service Survey
  
• AQUA Magazine’s 50th Anniversary Preview
  
• Service Industry News – United Chemical Bromate Study
  
• Kenilworth Media’s Big Acquisition Move
  
• EuroSpaPoolNews – Barcelona & Germany Specials
  
• SPLASH! Magazine – NCC 2025 Delay in Australia
  
• Brazil – Revista da Piscina & Pool Life
  

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In this week’s episode of Insurance Interludes, host Steve Sherwood teams up once again with Pat Grignon, Vice President of the California Pool Association (CPA), to tackle a real-world scenario hitting every service tech’s nightmare list:

A failing shell. A leaking pool. Conflicting opinions. And YOU stuck in the middle.

Steve brings the audience behind the scenes of his own route — a client with a structural crack that keeps reopening, “experts” claiming they can fix it, and the big question:

“How do I protect myself while still trying to do good business?”

Pat breaks down exactly how pool pros can keep themselves legally covered, insured, and sane when structural failures, hillside homes, cracked shells, and desperate customers collide.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

📝 Why Paper Trails Are Your Lifeline

Pat explains why ANY phone call about structural damage needs to be followed by a “per our conversation…” email or text. Document everything — not because you're dramatic, but because you need receipts when things go sideways.

⚠️ When to Walk Away (and When You Can Stay)

Steve and Pat compare two real pools from Steve’s route:
• A cliffside pool in Silver Lake that could cause a full-blown mudslide — instant “NOPE.”
• A flat-ground residential pool losing water but posing low catastrophic risk — maybe salvageable if documented correctly.

🛠️ Are Those ‘Staple Repairs’ Really Reliable?

They discuss companies that claim they can staple, bond, fiberglass, or otherwise resurrect a cracked shell — and whether those repairs last or leave YOU holding the liability bag.

📨 Exactly What to Write to Protect Yourself

Pat gives the language every pool pro should use, including:
• Confirming the client takes responsibility
• Noting structural issues are outside your scope
• Stating you will maintain water quality only, not shell integrity
• Recording that repairs are done by others, not you

🧨 Hidden Risks in Fancy Backyards

Steve asks the big question for pool pros in high-end markets:
“What crazy features require extra insurance riders?”
Pat breaks down:
• Grottos
• Waterfalls
• Diving boards
• Rock jump ledges
• Slides
• Custom features homeowners swear are ‘totally safe’

…and why touching some of these items (tightening a bolt, adjusting a slide, fixing a board) instantly becomes YOUR liability.

📘 What Insurance Actually Covers — and What It Really Doesn’t

Pat explains what’s included in CPA policies, from faulty work coverage to pop-pool enhancements, and why service companies shouldn’t act like builders unless they have builder-level insurance.

💬 Why Your Insurance Agent Should Be Your Second Brain

Steve shares real-world moments where calling Pat saved his ass.
Pat explains that your agent should act like a consultant, not just a bill collector — especially when weird situations pop up.

🔌 Pools + Water + Electricity + People = Risk

Steve closes with the big truth:
If you work around water and electricity, you MUST carry insurance.
CPA is a preferred sponsor, but the message is universal:
If you’re touching po

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On this Wednesday episode of the Talking Pools Podcast, host Natalie Hood (Director of Education & Network Development for The Grit Game) sits down with lifeguard historian, trainer, and content creator Miss Madison Ray to pull back the curtain on what lifeguards actually do, why they’re leaving the industry, and how dangerous our “they’re just babysitters” mindset really is.

From CPR in real facilities to CPR to Taylor Swift on TikTok, this episode hits both the heart and the hard facts.

Episode Summary

Natalie opens the show with a real incident:
At her facility, a patron went into cardiac arrest. The on-deck lifeguard initially walked past—but caught the emergency within seconds, initiated CPR, and helped save a life. The response was described as textbook by higher management.

From there, Natalie introduces her guest:

Meet Madison Ray — The Lifeguard Historian

• Lifeguard, aquatics professional, and content creator known as:
  • @missmadisonray on TikTok & Instagram
  • “The Singing Lifeguard” on TikTok
  • “The Lifeguard Historian” on YouTube
• Creates viral CPR rhythm videos using Taylor Swift, Sabrina Carpenter, and more to teach compressions.
• Fell into aquatics after a missed movie theater job call and a nudge from her mom to apply at the rec center.
• Planned to become a high school history teacher… instead became head of aquatics at 21.
• Now 23, she’s writing a full history of lifeguarding that started as a 25-page thesis and has grown to 100+ pages (and counting), including research back to the 1800s and original 1938 American Red Cross Lifesaving manuals.

With tuition assistance on the line, Madison made her college history degree directly relevant to aquatics by tying lifeguard history + education into her senior thesis. She argues that lighthouse keepers were essentially the first modern lifeguards—vigilance, rescue, and readiness long before red trunks and rescue tubes.

Myth-Busting with the Lifeguard Historian

Natalie and Madison spend the heart of the episode tearing down three of the most harmful myths in aquatics.

Support the show

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Pool Pros text questions here

This week, Andrea flies solo while Paulette takes a much-needed break—and the result is a fun, educational, slightly unhinged deep dive into cold water season, winter chemistry, dry skin survival, and why cold pools can actually make your job easier (yes, really).

From frozen reagents to stain treatments to elderly Floridians complaining about “cold” 78-degree pools, this episode is a full winter-route mood.

Episode Summary

Andrea kicks off the show explaining why cold water is basically a superpower for stain removal—and why winter is the perfect time to hit those stubborn stains before the pool closes or before the last brave snowbird gives up on swimming.

Then she pivots to the real pain of winter service: dry, cracked, chlorine-blasted pool-tech hands.
Andrea drops her holy-grail products for surviving winter route life:
• Aquaphor (the OG skin savior)
• Gloves in a Bottle (a “liquid glove” that doesn’t magically repel water but helps keep your skin intact)
• Cheap leather gloves you won’t cry about when chlorine eats them alive

With the hand-care PSA complete, Andrea dives into the meat of the episode:

Cold Water + Chemistry = Chaos

Cold water messes with your testing, your reagents, your strips, your readings… everything.
She covers:
• Why frozen reagents sometimes survive—if you treat them right
• Which false readings are the most common in winter
• Why cyanuric acid tests lie in cold water
• How pH and alkalinity reactions slow down
• Why test strips get stupid below 45°F / 7.2°C
• The right way to warm a sample before testing (hint: NOT the microwave)

She also explains why, according to Taylor, if the water is too cold for accurate testing…
you technically get a pass.
(Andrea delivers that part with the exact level of sarcasm you’d expect.)

Cold Water Perks You Didn’t Know You Needed

Yep—winter has pros:
• Stains lift easier
• Algae struggles to survive
• You might use fewer chemicals
• Nobody’s swimming, so nobody complains (except the heat-pump HOA)

Andrea also wanders into…
• evaporation math
• energy loss
• bubble covers
• liquid solar covers
• ducks getting annoyed
• Florida people who think 45°F means the end times
• commercial pools with 200,000 gallons of lukewarm regret
• spa cold-plunge chaos
• why solar panels leak out of spite

Her tangent game is elite this episode.

Key Takeaways

• Cold water interferes with nearly every test, from alkalinity to CYA—warm samples before testing.
• Frozen reagents aren’t always ruined, but they must thaw naturally and pass the “crack and floaty” check.
• Stain treatments work better in cold water, so winter is prime time.
• Evaporation steals heat energy like a thief, and even an inch of water lost has a huge thermal impact.
• Solar covers can actually add heat—not just retain it.
• Liquid covers work… mostly. Don’t expect miracles.
• Cold water means less algae, fewer chemicals, and fewer complaints—unless you service Florida.
• Winter equals crusty pool-tech hand

Support the show

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Email us: talkingpools@gmail.com

Pool Pros text questions here

This week on Mondays Down Under, Lee (Australia) and Shane (New Zealand) jump in—literally and figuratively—with a conversation that starts with cold weather swims and ends with one of the biggest training breakthroughs for the pool industry across Oceania.

What was supposed to be a short topic grew into a full deep-dive on safety, qualifications, licensing, training pathways, industry standards, and why professionalizing pool service matters more now than ever.

Episode Summary

Lee and Shane open with some updates from home: unseasonably cold weather, chilly swims, and Lee’s grandson discovering his natural frog-leg breaststroke in the bathtub. The laughter fades into a sobering discussion about water safety after the tragic drowning of an eight-year-old autistic boy in Victoria—highlighting the importance of early swimming lessons, supervision, and community awareness as summer approaches in Australia.

From there, the episode shifts to major industry news: New Zealand now has a recognized Cert III qualification in swimming pool and spa building. This is a huge step forward in lifting professionalism across the region.

Lee breaks down what this means for both countries:
• How Cert III and IV training works
• The difference between qualification vs. licensing
• Why licensing varies by state
• What RPL (Recognized Prior Learning) is
• Why experienced techs may still benefit from formal certification
• How traineeships work
• And what technicians can expect once NZ’s training pathway fully rolls out

Shane brings the on-the-ground perspective from Auckland—wondering how many long-time techs will take up the qualification once it’s widely available, and how many employers will start funding their staff to do it.

The discussion expands into the broader issue of professional respect. Pool technicians handle dangerous chemicals, electricity, hydraulics, and water safety every day. With those responsibilities should come recognition, standardized training, and a path toward a protected, respected trade.

Lee also pulls back the curtain on how IRLearning—the training division of SPASA—operates, including:
• What assessments look like
• How RPL interviews work
• What evidence students need
• Typical timeframes
• Why students often overthink the process
• How seasonal downtime becomes “assignment season” for techs

The episode wraps with guidance for anyone interested in pursuing certification, traineeships, or qualifications to elevate their career.

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In this episode, Rudy discusses the importance of borates in pool chemistry, particularly their role in stabilizing pH levels, reducing chemical usage, and enhancing water clarity. He explains the chemistry behind borates, their effects on algae, and practical applications for pool maintenance. Additionally, Rudy addresses safety concerns and common misconceptions about borates, emphasizing their benefits for long-term water stability.

takeaways

• Borates are one of the most powerful tools in pool chemistry.
• They help stabilize pH and reduce chemical usage.
• The physics and chemistry of pool water can lead to pH drift.
• Borates create a hostile environment for algae, preventing blooms.
• Water with borates feels smoother and looks clearer.
• Borates help prevent scaling in saltwater pools and heaters.
• Testing borates is straightforward with test strips.
• Borates are generally low in toxicity but should be handled with care.
• They do not kill algae outright but make conditions less favorable for it.
• Maintaining borate levels is essential for long-term pool stability.

Sound Bites

• "It makes your life a heck of a lot easier."
• "It's not soft water, it's smart water."
• "You only lose borates through dilution."

Chapters

00:00
Understanding Total Alkalinity and Borates

05:48
The Chemistry of Borates in Pool Water

09:27
Effects of Borates on Algae and Water Clarity

14:18
Practical Application of Borates in Pool Maintenance

18:58
Safety and Misconceptions about Borates

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In this episode, Steve Sherwood discusses the challenges of pool maintenance during rainy weather, emphasizing the importance of effective communication with clients regarding service times and expectations. He also delves into the significance of proper water testing and the differences between commercial and residential pool care. Additionally, insights into insurance considerations for pool professionals are shared, highlighting the need for preparedness in the face of unpredictable weather events.


Takeaways

Weather can significantly impact pool maintenance schedules.
Utilizing weather apps can help plan pool servicing effectively.
Communication with clients about service times is crucial.
Different companies have varying policies on service duration and charges.
Understanding client expectations is key to successful pool care.
Insurance is essential for protecting against weather-related damages.
Regular water testing is vital for maintaining pool health.
Commercial pools require more frequent testing than residential pools.
Using accurate testing methods is important for pool chemistry management.
Effective communication can prevent misunderstandings and enhance client relationships.


"What do you do with these pools when it rains?"
"You have to test the water every two hours."
"You need to communicate with your clients."


Chapters

00:00 Weather Challenges and Pool Maintenance
11:46 Understanding Pool Chemistry and Client Communication
19:09 Insurance Insights and Weather-Related Claims
24:45 Navigating Insurance Claims and Due Diligence
27:38 Building Trust with Insurance Providers
29:00 The Importance of Client Relationships
30:14 Testing Pool Water: Best Practices
32:32 Understanding Long-Term Indicators in Pool Maintenance
44:02 Commercial vs. Residential Pool Testing
52:38 Effective Communication in Pool Service

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Pool Pros text questions here

Mondays Down Under – Understanding Pool & Spa Standards in Australia & New Zealand

This week on Mondays Down Under, Lee and Shane dive into a topic that every pool and spa professional thinks they understand—until they don’t: standards, regulations, and the rules that actually govern your work on both sides of the Tasman.

From fencing laws to suction entrapment prevention, from dangerous goods handling to new fiberglass standards, this episode breaks down exactly what service technicians, retail pros, and builders need to know to stay compliant, stay safe, and avoid being on the wrong side of an inspector—or worse, an accident.

What Lee & Shane Cover This Episode:

• Why even Airbnbs and bed-and-breakfast pools count as commercial pools in most regions
• The most commonly used Australian standard: AS 1926 (safety barriers, location, and recirculation systems)
• How New Zealand’s rules differ—and where they mirror Australia
• The growing crackdown on inflatable, portable, and pop-up pools in New Zealand
• Real-world stories of councils interpreting rules their own way
• The often-ignored but critical AS 1926.3 standard: suction fittings, skimmer boxes, and entrapment prevention
• Suction cover flow-rate differences between brands like Waterco and Spa Electrics—and how choosing the wrong replacement can create a hazard
• Why every technician needs to match pump selection to compliant flow-rate limits
• Old but still referenced: the private pool water quality standard AS 3633 and its upcoming rewrite
• Where water quality rules actually come from (hint: your state health guidelines)
• Dangerous goods standards including:
  • AS 3780 – storage and handling of corrosive substances
  • AS/NZS 3833 – mixed classes of dangerous goods (recently updated to 2024)
• Additional niche standards builders and installers should know:
  • AS/NZS 1477 – PVC pressure pipes & fittings
  • AS 3634 – solar heating systems
  • AS 5348 – pool covers
• The massive update to the fiberglass pool installation standard:
  • Former AS/NZS 1838:1994 → now AS/NZS 1839:2025
• Why SPASA is currently seeking industry feedback for the new concrete pool standard under development

The Big Message:

If you work on a pool—service, retail, install, or build—you need to know the standards that govern your work. They protect your customer, and they protect you.

Links & Mentions:

• SPASA contact for contributing to the new concrete pool standard: ben@spasa.com.au
  
  
• Check your state health guidelines for water-quality requirements
• Remember: Commercial pool rules apply to Airbnb, holiday rentals, and any property where someone is paying to stay—whether the pool is big, small, or inflatable.

Have a Question for Lee & Shane?

Send your suggestions, questions, or episode ideas to:
📩 talkingpools@gmail.com

Thanks for listening to Mondays Down Under! Stay safe, stay compliant, and stay curious.
We’ll catch you next week!

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