Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Dr. Chris Wells, a writer, researcher, and podcaster who specializes in positive disintegration. They break down the theory of positive disintegration, developed by Kazimierz Dąbrowski, and its relevance to personal growth and neurodiversity. They explore the concept of over-excitability, its implications in the gifted education community, and the controversy surrounding its interpretation. They talk about disintegration as a pathway to self-actualization, and the need for community support for those experiencing intense emotional states. They also discuss the future directions of integrating Dąbrowski's theory with contemporary understandings of neurodiversity.

TAKEAWAYS

• The theory of positive disintegration is about personal growth.

• Dąbrowski's work connects mental illness with developmental potential.

• Over-excitability is a key concept in understanding neurodivergence.

• The gifted education community often misunderstands Dąbrowski's theory.

• Positive disintegration can lead to self-actualization.

• Intensity and sensitivity can be both a blessing and a curse.

• Navigating disintegration requires a grounding practice.

• Community support is essential for those experiencing disintegration.

Episode 147, with Alex Vuyk: Does Personality Impact Neurodiversity?

Positive Disintegration podcast episode 30 mentioned in our conversation (link is to Apple podcasts)

Check out the courses in the Neurodiversity University.

Chris Wells, PhD is a writer, researcher, and podcaster specializing in positive disintegration, neurodivergence, and personal growth. They are the founder of the Dąbrowski Center and creator of the Positive Disintegration Network, dedicated to bringing Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration into both academic and public conversations.

Chris co-hosts the Positive Disintegration and Cosmic Cheer Squad podcasts and shares their work on Substack, where they blend theory with lived experience to make complex psychological concepts more accessible. Their work centers on self-development, authenticity, and transformation, supporting others in navigating growth through the lens of neurodivergence.

BACKGROUND READING

Chris’s LinkTree, Positive Disintegration website, Cosmic Cheer Squad Substack, Instagram

Kaelynn Partlow is an autism advocate and author, and one of the stars of the Netflix series, Love on the Spectrum. Today she joins Emily to talk about her experiences with autism, and they cover a lot of ground in this conversation. They discuss the evolution and effectiveness of ABA therapy, the need for accurate labeling, and using declarative language in communication. They also offer advice for parents of newly diagnosed children, and talk about the importance of finding community.

TAKEAWAYS

• The world will label children if parents don't.

• The superpower label is a double-edged sword.

• Nuance is often lost in discussions about autism.

• Profound autism requires specific understanding and advocacy.

• Declarative language can reduce pressure in communication.

• Specific questions help autistic individuals engage better.

• Finding community is essential for parents of autistic children.

Have Emily come and speak to your school district, company, or organization. Here's where you can find out more and get in touch.

Kaelynn Partlow is an autism advocate, speaker, and author widely recognized for her appearance on the Netflix series Love on the Spectrum. Through her impactful social media presence, she promotes meaningful inclusion and practical support, reaching millions with her message of autism acceptance and understanding.

Kaelynn is the author of Life on the Bridge, a book that offers both personal and professional insights to foster deeper connection between autistic and non-autistic people. Since joining Project Hope in 2015 as a Registered Behavior Technician, she has led therapy sessions, developed staff training materials, and shared her expertise nationally to support more informed and compassionate autism care.

BACKGROUND READING

Kaelynn’s LinkTree links

Today's episode is a heartfelt conversation about the importance of helping neurodivergent children understand themselves and their brain profile, and how this understanding can foster confidence and self-advocacy. Emily talks with Dr. Liz Angoff about the need for transparent communication with children about their diagnoses, and the use of relatable metaphors to explain complex concepts. They discuss collaborative approaches in assessments, the challenges of co-occurring diagnoses, and the role of parents in supporting their children. How can families find practitioners who align with neurodiversity-affirming practices, and how can that lead to understanding and acceptance for both children and their families? Get comfortable, today's conversation covers a lot of ground.

TAKEAWAYS

• Helping kids understand their brain profiles is crucial.

• Self-understanding fosters confidence and self-advocacy.

• Using relatable metaphors can aid in explaining neurodiversity.

• Labels can serve as anchors for understanding experiences.

• Children often internalize negative labels if not addressed.

• Collaborative assessments enhance understanding for both kids and parents.

• Empowering parents shifts the narrative from deficits to differences.

• Finding the right practitioner is essential for supportive assessments.

• Normalizing neurodiversity can change family dynamics for life.

Have Emily come and speak to your school district, company, or organization. Here's where you can find out more and get in touch.

Grab up some podcast swag for the summer, and help fund our efforts at the same time.

Dr. Liz Angoff is a Licensed Educational Psychologist and a Diplomate in School Neuropsychology, specializing in assessment and consultation for children and their families in the Bay Area, California. Her work centers on helping neurodivergent children better understand and embrace how their brains work, fostering confidence, self-advocacy, and empowerment.

She is the author of the Brain Building Books and Our Brains, a series designed to support children in navigating their learning and identity through affirming, accessible language. Through her practice and writing, Dr. Liz is committed to demystifying the evaluation process and creating tools that help families and educators work together to support thriving learners.

BACKGROUND READING

Liz Angoff’s website, Explaining Brains, Upcoming book - Our Brains, tools for parents, Instagram