Succession is one of the most important moments in the life of a ministry.

And one of the most misunderstood.

After decades working with leading Christian organizations, Steve Woodworth has watched leadership transitions unfold from behind the scenes.

Some created momentum and clarity. Others quietly eroded trust, fractured relationships, and stalled mission.

What makes the difference?

In this episode, Steve shares the patterns he’s seen across hundreds of organizations, why internal succession is often more effective, and how boards and leaders can work together to create a “no drama” transition.

This conversation is both practical and deeply human, addressing not just strategy but identity, trust, and the emotional reality leaders face as they step out of their roles.

• The healthiest successions begin years before the actual transition • Internal candidates have a significantly higher success rate than external hires • Culture fit is one of the biggest predictors of success or failure • Boards often underestimate their need for outside help • Mistreating outgoing leaders can damage donor trust and organizational stability • Leaders must plan not just what they are leaving, but what they are going toward • Humility and collaboration are essential for a “no drama” succession

00:00 — Introduction to Steve Woodworth 01:36 — Why he wrote Lost in Transition 05:00 — Patterns in healthy vs unhealthy successions 07:15 — Why culture fit matters so much 09:23 — Internal vs external successors 12:43 — What happens when you don’t prepare 16:03 — The emotional weight of stepping down 17:58 — Mistreating outgoing leaders 20:56 — What leaders need to hear before retiring 23:10 — Transitioning into what’s next 26:27 — The challenge of founder succession 31:07 — Gone too soon vs stayed too long 35:12 — The critical role of boards 39:56 — What’s changing in succession today

If you’re navigating a leadership transition or want to prepare your organization before challenges arise, visit https://ministrytransitions.com to learn how Ministry Transitions helps leaders and boards plan wisely and finish strong.

You can also connect with Steve Woodworth’s insights through his book Lost in Transition and his work at https://masterworks.agency or on LinkedIn, where he shares ongoing wisdom for leaders facing succession decisions. These resources exist to help you steward both the ending and the next beginning with clarity and care.

Leadership often looks clear in hindsight but confusing in the moment.

For Tami Heim, the journey into leadership began with a dramatic shift in ambition. Just days after graduating college, she surrendered her plans to follow Christ, stepping into a life where leadership was no longer about advancement but obedience.

Over the next several decades, that calling would lead her through massive corporate change, cultural disruption, and deeply personal trials.

From navigating retail mergers and the rise of Amazon to leading during national crises and personal loss, each moment shaped how she understands faith, leadership, and God’s faithfulness.

Today, as president and CEO of the Christian Leadership Alliance, Tami helps equip leaders across more than 125 countries.

In this conversation, she shares how leaders can seek God in uncertainty, navigate disruption, and lead with both competence and spiritual depth.

This episode is an invitation to rediscover leadership as an adventure with God rather than a platform to control.

• Leadership growth often comes through disruption and difficulty, not comfort • God’s faithfulness becomes clearer after walking through multiple seasons of crisis • Spiritual formation is just as critical as leadership competency • Healthy leadership requires wise guides, side guides, and gospel community • Seeking God together as a team can transform how organizations navigate uncertainty • Identity must remain rooted in Christ rather than in leadership roles • Strong leadership transitions require trust in God’s timing and openness to what comes next

00:00 — Introduction to Tami Heim 02:08 — Management, stewardship, and leadership 04:42 — Being saved from personal ambition 07:06 — Business as ministry before it was common 09:57 — The role of Christian community in leadership 12:09 — Leading through crisis and disruption 14:19 — Navigating 9/11 and national uncertainty 16:44 — When COVID threatened the future of CLA 18:45 — Leadership during seasons of transition 20:21 — Seeking God first as an organization 23:10 — Identity beyond leadership roles 26:25 — Multiply, not divide 30:55 — The ache of ministry leaders 33:44 — What makes the Outcomes Conference unique 37:31 — Leadership, presence, and meaningful conversations 40:02 — Final invitation to Outcomes Conference

If you or your organization are facing a leadership transition, succession conversation, or difficult ministry change, visit https://ministrytransitions.com to learn how Ministry Transitions helps churches and nonprofits protect people, preserve mission, and plan what comes next.

You can also explore more about the Christian Leadership Alliance and the Outcomes Conference at https://outcomesconference.org. These resources exist to help leaders finish strong and step confidently into whatever God has next.

Thanks for listening to the Life After Ministry podcast.

There’s a kind of grief that doesn’t come with a clear loss. No funeral. No ending. Just the quiet ache of something that never came to be. For many in ministry, this kind of grief goes unnamed and unaddressed.

Drew Hensley calls it “invisible grief.” It’s the pain of unrealized hopes, whether that’s infertility, singleness, unmet expectations, or a future you were certain God was leading you toward.

And because it’s unseen, it often gets buried under responsibility, performance, and the pressure to keep showing up.

In this conversation, Drew shares his personal journey through infertility while pastoring, the unhealthy ways he coped, and the turning point that led him toward honesty, lament, and healing.

This episode offers a grounded, honest look at how to carry grief without losing your faith.

• Invisible grief is the pain of what has never been and may never be
• Ministry leaders often carry grief privately while serving others publicly
• Avoiding grief doesn’t silence it. It reshapes how it shows up
• Lament is a necessary spiritual practice, not a lack of faith
• Joy and grief are not opposites. They can coexist
• Healing begins with honesty, first with God, then with others
• The church grows stronger when it learns to sit with people in unresolved pain

00:00 – Introduction to Invisible Grief 02:00 – Defining grief that no one sees 05:00 – Drew’s infertility story begins 08:30 – The weight of grief in ministry leadership 12:00 – Coping, numbing, and emotional exhaustion 17:30 – The turning point: honesty with God 20:30 – Why joy and grief are not opposites 26:30 – A framework: lay down, pick up, move forward 30:00 – Adoption, redemption, and unresolved tension 33:00 – Is the church good at grief? 37:00 – Final reflections on trust and faith

If you’re navigating a difficult transition, you don’t have to do it alone. Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential call, support leaders in transition, or find guidance for what’s next. You can explore Drew Hensley’s book Invisible Grief wherever books are sold. Take the next step toward honest healing and wise transition today.