Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be.

In this episode, financial strategist Gabe Pelphrey opens the curtain on why retirement planning for ministry leaders so often gets ignored. He explains the unique challenges pastors face, the role boards must play, and the courageous conversations that make succession possible.

This isn’t just about money - it’s about stewardship, legacy, and ensuring both leaders and churches are prepared for what’s next.

Key Takeaways

• Why many pastors cannot financially afford to retire
• The board’s role in annual compensation and planning reviews
• How rabbi trusts and deferred compensation plans protect leaders and churches
• The danger of assuming “God will provide” without planning
• Why courageous conversations about money and succession matter
• How retrospective compensation studies address past underpayment
• Why planning early ensures dignity, security, and peace in transitions

Chapter Markers 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions 01:20 – The hidden financial crisis in pastoral transitions 03:45 – Who holds responsibility: pastor or board? 06:15 – When pastors retire into poverty 08:00 – Unique financial tools for churches (rabbi trusts, 403b9s) 10:13 – Stewardship and courageous conversations 13:27 – Strongholds around money in ministry 16:40 – Poverty mindset vs. extravagant misconceptions 20:06 – Retrospective compensation studies explained 22:53 – Gabe’s background and calling into this work 25:06 – How Stewarded serves churches and nonprofits 27:00 – Why Ministry Transitions + Stewarded work hand-in-hand 32:29 – Preview of joint webinar

Retirement should not punish calling. Visit stewarded.io to schedule a strategy session. Build a clear roadmap with your board using tools like 403(b)(9) plans, rabbi trusts, deferred compensation, and retrospective compensation studies so your pastor can finish with dignity and your church stays strong.

If succession or a financial crunch is on the horizon, do not walk it alone. Go to ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential call. We help pastors and boards craft integrity-first transition plans that protect people, steward resources, and prepare your church for what’s next.

Behind every thriving ministry is a foundation you can’t always see - standards, accountability, and trust. Without them, the most passionate vision can unravel overnight.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, ECFA’s Jake Lapp explains why accountability matters not just for auditors and boards but for pastors, leaders, and anyone entrusted with Kingdom resources.

He shares how ECFA’s standards were designed to serve ministries, not stifle them, and how transparency is one of the clearest ways leaders reflect Christ’s call to integrity.

If you’ve ever wondered whether accountability hinders or helps ministry, Jake’s perspective reframes the conversation. This episode offers a framework for leaders who want to guard the mission, protect their people, and leave behind a legacy of trust.

• Accountability is not bureaucracy - it’s discipleship.
• Transparency builds trust faster than vision statements.
• Financial integrity protects both leaders and the people they serve.
• ECFA standards are guardrails, not red tape.
• Trust is earned in drops but lost in buckets.
• Healthy structures create freedom, not restriction.
• Integrity in hidden details sustains visible ministry.

• 00:00 – Introduction to ECFA and Jake Lapp
• 02:05 – Why Accountability Matters in Ministry
• 05:20 – The Role of ECFA Standards
• 09:45 – How Transparency Builds Trust
• 13:10 – Common Pitfalls Leaders Face
• 17:25 – Trust, Integrity, and Long-Term Sustainability
• 21:40 – Encouragement for Leaders in Transition

Strengthen the foundation you cannot see. Visit ECFA.org to review the Seven Standards, explore practical tools, and begin a clear pathway toward accreditation. Build transparency that protects people, guards the mission, and reflects Christ’s call to integrity.

If a transition is on the horizon, do not carry it alone. Go to MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call and build an integrity-first plan that safeguards your people and purpose. If you’re able, give to make this support possible for another leader.

What happens when the very act of caring for others leaves you depleted?

Laura Howe, founder of Hope Made Strong, knows firsthand the toll of compassion fatigue. From her own season of burnout came a global movement equipping churches to address mental health with wisdom and grace.

In this conversation, Laura shares her personal journey from exhaustion to renewed purpose. She reminds us that burnout is not a moral failure, but a workplace hazard for anyone serving in caregiving roles.

With honesty and clarity, she explains what resilience truly looks like, how to know when you’ve moved from “yellow” into “red,” and why churches must begin addressing mental health as part of whole-life discipleship.

For leaders in transition, this episode offers a lifeline. You’ll hear not only practical wisdom but also the hope that God redeems what feels wasted.

Whether you’re a pastor, a board member, or someone carrying unseen weight, Laura’s insights offer courage to pause, refuel, and continue faithfully.

• Burnout and compassion fatigue are hazards of caregiving, not signs of weakness or sin.
• Resilience is less about powering through and more about bouncing back.
• Ministry leaders must learn to recognize their “zone” on the green-yellow-orange-red scale.
• Sustainable care in churches means creating belonging, purpose, and hope - not acting as clinics.
• The Church has a unique capacity to support mental health across every stage of life.
• Global interest in integrating faith and mental health is rising rapidly.
• Hope Made Strong and the Church Mental Health Summit provide free, practical resources.

• 00:00 – Introduction to Laura Howe and Hope Made Strong
• 01:10 – Laura’s Burnout Story and Birth of Hope Made Strong
• 03:13 – Understanding Compassion Fatigue and Resilience
• 06:12 – How Do You Know It’s Time for a Change?
• 09:17 – From Red Zone to Hope Made Strong
• 12:15 – Sustainability and the Church’s Responsibility
• 16:04 – Why the Church Must Embrace Mental Health
• 19:50 – Launching the Church Mental Health Summit
• 23:25 – Personal Reflection and Final Encouragement

If this episode stirred something in you, take a next step: visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call about an upcoming transition, termination, or succession - or give to help another leader get timely support. Then head to HopeMadeStrong.org to equip your team for sustainable care by registering for the Church Mental Health Summit and accessing practical tools for your church.

What if the missing piece in your leadership is not more strategy but more empathy?

Bill and Kristi Gaultiere say empathy is oxygen for the soul, and many leaders are gasping without realizing it.

They join Matt to unpack how Jesus models secure attachment with the Father and how we can receive and reflect that love in daily life.

Bill and Kristi name the empathy deserts many of us grew up in, why ministry culture often rewards self-neglect, and how receiving care is not a luxury. It is discipleship.

The conversation lands with the Four A’s of Empathy. Ask. Attune. Acknowledge. Affirm. Practice these, and watch connection and courage return.

If you are ending a role, beginning again, or preparing for a hard meeting, this episode offers biblical wisdom and field-tested tools to do hard things with Jesus’ easy yoke.

• Empathy is not sentimentality. It is the way love becomes believable and actionable. “We love because He first loved us.”
• Many leaders grew up in empathy deserts. Naming this breaks shame and opens us to care.
• Jesus models secure attachment with the Father. Presence before performance. Prayer before platform.
• The Four A’s of Empathy help in any conversation. Ask. Attune. Acknowledge significance. Affirm strengths.
• Receiving empathy enlarges capacity for compassion at home and work.
• Empathy transforms hard transitions. It dignifies layoffs, fuels grief work, and softens the ground for forgiveness.
• Leaders need safe people and slow practices that rebuild attachment to God and others.

• 00:00 Welcome and name pronunciation fun
• 01:38 What is Soul Shepherding and the easy yoke of Jesus
• 04:10 Release day for Deeply Loved and why empathy matters
• 04:43 Empathy deserts and early stories that shape leaders
• 07:45 Why Christian leaders struggle to receive love
• 11:06 Empathy is oxygen for the soul
• 14:48 “Is empathy soft?” Gender, strength, and honesty
• 20:38 Attachment, secure bonds, and practical tools
• 26:30 Theology plus psychology in Deeply Loved
• 27:03 The Four A’s of Empathy explained
• 38:22 Empathy in layoffs, burnout, and hard meetings
• 43:53 Where to find the book and Soul Shepherding retreats
• 45:08 Close and gratitude

Explore More Resources:

Dive deeper into the themes of this episode by visiting soulshepherding.org/deeplylovedbook for Bill and Kristi Gaultier’s Deeply Loved, and find confidential guidance and support for ministry transitions at ministrytransitions.com.

Sixty episodes. More than 70,000 downloads. And countless stories of leaders who’ve walked through suffering, loss, and transition - and discovered God’s faithfulness in the middle of it all.

In this season finale, Matt Davis pauses to look back on the lessons of Season Four.

From transformational suffering to leadership in crisis, from the wilderness of interruption to the challenge of succession planning, these conversations have pointed us toward what truly sustains ministry.

More than just a recap, this is an invitation. An invitation to reflect on what God may be stirring in your own life and to consider how you might come alongside leaders who are navigating the hardest moments of ministry.

• Every testimony is more than a story - it’s a prayer for God to do it again.
• Suffering, when surrendered, can become transformational.
• Presence matters more than polish in crisis leadership.
• Succession is both organizational and personal - it requires planning on both levels.
• The Church’s culture is an operating system, not an event.
• Leaders in transition need more than strategy - they need support.
• You can be part of multiplying hope for leaders facing transition.

• 00:00 – Introduction: Season 4 Wrap-Up
• 01:00 – Why Testimonies Are Prayers for God to Do It Again
• 03:15 – Lessons from Guests: Suffering, Succession, Wilderness, and Culture
• 09:00 – Succession as Both Organizational and Personal
• 12:00 – Supporting Leaders in Transition: An Appeal
• 15:00 – Thank You and Looking Ahead to Season 5

Ministry Transitions stands in the gap for pastors and ministry leaders who’ve been let go, burned out, or are simply facing their next step - and they need your help.

Visit ministrytransitions.com to:

• Access resources
• Sponsor a leader in crisis
• Or schedule a conversation to take stock of your next step

You’re not giving to a program - you’re giving to a person with a calling. Let’s walk with leaders through their lowest valleys and help them find hope again.

What if waiting until you’re ready keeps you from ever starting?

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with Holly Tate, founder of The Ready Network, to talk about leadership, courage, and stepping into the unknown.

Holly shares her own story of transition - from years at Vanderbloemen, to joining Leadr, to launching her own work helping leaders and teams move from stuck to unstuck.

Along the way, she opens up about fear, the myth of readiness, and how emotional intelligence shapes the future of ministry leadership.

For pastors, boards, and ministry leaders wrestling with change, this episode offers both empathy and clarity: you don’t have to have it all figured out. You just need the courage to take the next step.

• Why emotional intelligence often outweighs skills in ministry hiring.
• The unique challenges of church staffing versus corporate staffing.
• Holly’s hardest transition and what it taught her about calling.
• How the Ready Framework moves leaders from chaos to clarity.
• Why starting scared is better than never starting at all.
• The “Yes Barometer” that keeps teams from being derailed by new ideas.
• How transformation requires courage, vulnerability, and faith.

• 00:00 – Matt introduces Holly Tate
• 01:30 – Early leadership influences and church impact
• 05:30 – Lessons from staffing and hiring in ministry
• 08:50 – Transition to Leader and lessons from 2020
• 15:10 – Starting scared: email, podcast, and new ventures
• 21:00 – The Ready Framework explained
• 26:45 – Why teams need the Yes Barometer
• 29:30 – Becoming ready by doing

• Learn more resources for ministry transitions at MinistryTransitions.com
• Explore Holly’s coaching and clarity framework at TheReadyNetwork.com

Every ministry transition comes with both a push and a pull. Sometimes you’re drawn toward a new calling. Other times you simply know you can’t stay.

For Tim Stevens, those moments have shaped four decades of leadership in the church - and given him a front-row seat to hundreds of leaders navigating their own endings and beginnings.

In this conversation, Tim shares candidly about untangling his identity from the church he helped build, why pastors often stay too long, and how to navigate the grief and uncertainty that come with leaving.

From decades at Granger Community Church to crisis leadership at Willow Creek during COVID, Tim has lived through seasons that tested both his loyalty and his leadership instincts.

Now, through Leading Smart, he walks pastors and boards through governance challenges, succession planning, and leadership transitions.

Tim offers practical wisdom for both leaders in the second chair and those tasked with guiding major shifts - always with the reminder that ministry endings can be done in ways that protect people, preserve purpose, and prepare for what’s next.

Key Takeaways

• The “push and pull” dynamic is present in every ministry transition.
• Identity can become dangerously intertwined with a role - separation is painful but necessary.
• Pastors often stay longer than they should due to loyalty, finances, or lack of vision for life after ministry.
• Succession planning must start years in advance to avoid crisis moments.
• Governance structures that worked for a smaller church may need major revision as the church grows.
• Churches rarely have systems in place to care for staff after terminations or transitions.
• Healthy endings require intentionality, outside support, and a willingness to let go.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 – Pickleball, Notre Dame, and the start of the conversation
• 02:29 – Matt’s transition season and early connection with Tim
• 03:17 – Tim’s 40 years in ministry and five major transitions
• 06:55 – Leaving Granger: identity, co-dependence, and the year-long decision
• 13:06 – Lessons from Vanderbloemen: big vs. small church transitions
• 15:17 – Leading through crisis at Willow Creek during COVID
• 18:49 – The birth of Leading Smart and the work Tim does today
• 24:36 – The state of the American church and Gen Z trends
• 26:20 – Why pastors aren’t ready for succession - and how to prepare
• 28:33 – Outplacement and caring well for staff you have to let go
• 32:21 – How to connect with Tim and Leading Smart

If you’re in a season of transition - or see one on the horizon - visit MinistryTransitions.com to connect, give, or book a confidential call. And explore Tim’s work at LeadingSmart.com for coaching, consulting, and resources your church can put into action right now.

What if the health of your ministry depends more on your board than you think? Dr. Michael Anthony has spent 40 years in boardrooms - as a member, chair, consultant, and C-suite leader - and he’s seen what works and what breaks ministries apart.

In this candid conversation, Dr. Anthony unpacks common mistakes boards make, the unseen cost of poor governance, and the simple practices that lead to longevity and mission health.

From defining lanes to using a “log of motions,” from succession planning to EQ, he explains why leadership transitions succeed - or fail - long before the public ever sees it.

And he gets personal, sharing the story of his most painful ministry transition, the “dark night of the soul” it brought, and how God restored his joy and purpose.

Whether you’re a ministry leader, board member, or walking through a transition, this episode will give you tools to strengthen your leadership and hope for what’s next.

• Why lack of proper orientation is one of the most common board failures.

• How a “log of motions” can prevent repetitive mistakes and clarify focus.

• The three duties of board members: care, loyalty, and obedience.

• Why clear role boundaries prevent dysfunction between boards and staff.

• Succession planning as a regular board discipline, not a crisis reaction.

• The critical role EQ plays in leadership longevity.

• How God can use painful transitions for deeper growth and joy.

00:00 – Welcome & backstory with Dr. Michael Anthony 01:11 – Why this book on nonprofit boards 02:18 – Common causes of board dysfunction 05:24 – The onboarding process done right 07:43 – What’s a “log of motions” and why it matters 09:48 – The three duties of every board member 14:36 – Board size, terms, and rotation 18:04 – How to transition a board member off gracefully 20:36 – When to resign from a board for unity’s sake 24:17 – Role of the board chair & relationship with CEO 31:09 – Using ongoing board training to stay healthy 32:11 – Succession planning without personal attack 34:39 – How boards can handle leadership exits well 38:43 – Accountability, care, and EQ in board leadership 43:54 – What’s at stake if boards are neglected 46:52 – Differences between church and nonprofit boards 49:52 – Growing through painful ministry transitions 57:52 – How to connect with Dr. Anthony

If you’re walking through a ministry transition - or know someone who is - you’re not alone. Connect with us at ministrytransitions.com for coaching, resources, and a path forward. To reach Dr. Michael Anthony directly, email manthony@dts.edu or michael@calibrateglobalconsulting.com.