In his official 1838 history, Joseph Smith described discovering the golden plates inside a carefully constructed stone box in the Hill Cumorah. According to his account, the box contained the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and a breastplate.But what happened to that stone box?In this episode of LDS Discussions, we take a deep dive into the historical record surrounding the stone box narrative. We compare Joseph Smith’s 1838 history with earlier and later accounts, statements from witnesses like David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery, and later retellings from leaders such as Brigham Young.We explore:-What Joseph Smith said was inside the box-Whether early Saints believed there was MORE than one box-Claims about swords, the Liahona, and other Nephite artifacts-The evolution of the story over time-Whether codex-style plates create anachronistic problems-The “magic worldview” shared by early Mormon leaders-Comparisons to treasure-digging culture-Why there is no physical evidence of the stone box todayWe also examine 19th century newspaper references discussing the stone box, Whitmer’s later (contradictory) interviews, and the strange disappearance of a stone structure that supposedly survived for over a thousand years.If the box was real and physically constructed with stone slabs and pillars –as described –why did it leave no trace? Why didn’t believers preserve fragments the way people took pieces of the Berlin Wall? And why does the Hill Cumorah today appear completely undisturbed?This episode wrestles with a central question: Does the detail of a stone box strengthen Joseph Smith’s credibility –or create new historical and epistemological problems?This is Episode 71 in our LDS Discussions series!

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Welcome to Episode 70 of our LDS Discussions series!In this episode, our panel takes a deep dive into one of the most debated questions surrounding the Book of Mormon: were ancient metal plates a known concept in Joseph Smith’s world, and are they truly comparable to the golden plates he described?We examine historical sources from the 18th and 19th centuries that reference metal records –brass, copper, lead, and stone –and place them within Joseph Smith’s cultural and intellectual milieu. From biblical scholarship and early American speculation about Native American origins to apologists’ use of presentism, this episode carefully distinguishes between general awareness of metal inscriptions and the specific, unprecedented claims of a large golden codex containing extensive narrative text.Along the way, we explore major figures, books, and ideas circulating before and during Joseph Smith’s lifetime, assess whether these sources were likely known to him, and ask a crucial question: at what point does probability break down –not because of a single anachronism, but because of the sheer scale and complexity of the plates described in the Book of Mormon?This conversation builds toward a detailed timeline of Joseph Smith’s environment, highlighting how concepts expanded, evolved, and were ultimately synthesized into something entirely new.Leave a comment letting us know if you like this format with John Dehlin being “not home.”

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Join Kolby, Nemo, Julia, and Dr. John Dehlin for one of our most in-depth LDS Discussions episodes yet as we unpack “The Other Isaiah Problem” and what it means for the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

In this episode, we explore why scholars overwhelmingly view isaiah as a multi-author work, how the Great Isaiah Scroll challenges the Book of Mormon’s use of Isaiah, and why the text consistently aligns with the King James Version rather than ancient sources. We walk through the history of the brass plates, the transition from scrolls to codex technology, and the anachronisms the Church now quietly acknowledges.

We compare the Great Isaiah Scroll, the Masoretic Text, the Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon, and the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, revealing where Joseph Smith appears to be pulling from later biblical scholarship –including Adam Clarke’s commentary –and where verses in the Book of Mormon simply did not exist in ancient manuscripts. We ask the question: What does this mean for believers who want the text to be historical?

Whether you’re deeply familiar with LDS scholarship or just starting your faith journey, this episode lays out the evidence clearly, accessibly, and respectfully –while still asking the hard questions.

Show Notes

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