Ep 289: Rocky Novak & Brad Surcey of Zeus Jones - "The Curious & Courageous Leaders"

What does courage actually look like in leadership?

In this episode of Fearless Creative Leadership, Charles Day speaks with Rocky Novak and Brad Surcey, co-CEOs of Zeus Jones, about partnership, independence, and leading through uncertainty — both inside business and outside it.

They discuss why independent companies can invest ahead of clients, how curiosity and optimism shape hiring, and why great creative cultures run on principles rather than rules. But this conversation goes far beyond business. As events unfold around them in Minneapolis, Rocky and Brad share how leadership changes when your responsibility shifts from performance to protection — caring for people first, then the company, then the community.

This is a candid discussion about partnership, resilience, and humanity. It reveals how courage shows up in everyday decisions: investing before certainty, standing by your values, and supporting others when there's no playbook.

00:00 — Opening: Courage and Partnership
Leadership and the role of courage in creative companies.

01:20 — Investing Ahead of Clients
Why independence enables experimentation and learning.

03:25 — Leadership During Crisis
Prioritizing employee safety and emotional wellbeing.

05:20 — Creativity Origins
Rocky's dance background and Brad's early design influences.

12:30 — The Value of Independence
Speed, decision-making, and long-term thinking.

19:45 — Continuous Evolution
Why agencies must constantly reinvent themselves.

24:15 — Building a Culture of Risk
Making investment a real budget line item.

27:05 — Client Partnerships vs Vendor Relationships
Solving problems together rather than presenting solutions.

30:30 — Hiring for Curiosity and Optimism
The qualities that sustain creative environments.

34:50 — Principles, Not Rules
How culture becomes structure.

41:20 — Leading Through Social Upheaval
Supporting people during uncertainty and fear.

47:30 — Creativity Serving Community
Using communication to help local businesses.

53:40 — Supporting Each Other as Leaders
The role of partnership in resilience.

56:00 — Hope for the Future
Nuance, empathy, and rebuilding connection.