21: Fixing Fairness: The Future of DEI, Workplace Equity, and Organizational Change, with Lily Zheng

What if the very programs designed to make workplaces fairer are actually making the problem worse?

In this episode, we begin with the famous "Cobra Effect"—a colonial-era policy that unintentionally increased the problem it was meant to solve—and explore how the same dynamic shows up in modern diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts.

Our guest, Lily Zhang, argues that many corporate DEI initiatives fail not because the goals are wrong, but because the strategies are. Drawing on decades of research, Lily breaks down why performative programs, surface-level solutions, and "band-aid" workplace initiatives rarely create real change—and what leaders, employees, and communities can do instead to build truly fair organizations for human beings who deserve better.

What to listen for:

• The fabulous cobra story, helping set the stage for unintended consequences that can enable or even worsen the original problem

• The best condensed explanation of the history of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion that we've heard

• The contrasting stats about how many people want DEI, but say they don't see any perceived benefits – and why that is problematic.

• So how do we build more humane workplaces? Enter the FAIR framework of outcomes we want to see in the workplace - fairness, access, inclusion, representation - and what it takes to transform the diversity backlash into real change: outcomes, systems, coalitions, and win-win.

• How Lily guards against burnout, personally

About Lily:

LILY ZHENG (they/them) is a no-nonsense strategist, consultant, and author who helps leaders and practitioners build workplaces that work for everyone. They are the creator of the FAIR Framework, an evidence-based approach giving guidance to those driving the next evolution of workplace diversity, equity, and inclusion. Lily's work has been featured in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR, and their bestselling books, DEI Deconstructed, Reconstructing DEI, and Fixing Fairness, lay out the practical skills and knowledge anyone can use to create the healthy workplaces we all deserve. They live with their wife in the San Francisco Bay Area and can frequently be found indoor rock climbing and putting together yet another all-black outfit.

Buy Fixing Fairness here.