-
The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency
- Narrated by: Lisette Lecat
- Length: 8 hrs and 9 mins
Add to Cart failed.
Add to Wish List failed.
Remove from wishlist failed.
Adding to library failed
Follow podcast failed
Unfollow podcast failed
Buy for $17.49
No default payment method selected.
We are sorry. We are not allowed to sell this product with the selected payment method
Listeners also enjoyed...
-
Tears of the Giraffe
- More from the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Lisette Lecat
- Length: 7 hrs and 50 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Now engaged to Mr. J.L.B. Matekoni, Mma Ramotswe must contend with the hostility of her fianci's unscrupulous maid, who quickly begins plotting the disintegration of the arrangement. Then an American woman asks for help to learn the truth behind her son's disappearance in Africa, and Mma Ramotswe has all the troubles she can handle.
-
-
A tender tale, sweetly told
- By Barbara on 08-30-05
-
44 Scotland Street: Series 1-3
- Full-cast radio adaptations of the much-loved novels
- By: Alexander McCall-Smith
- Narrated by: Crawford Logan, Carol Ann Crawford, full cast
- Length: 3 hrs and 24 mins
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Anthropologist Domenica MacDonald observes the lives of her neighbours and the neighbourhood in Edinburgh's New Town. Pat, a new young tenant, arrives at 44 Scotland Street to flat share with Bruce. Bruce is a surveyor with more of an eye for the ladies than a sound property. We're introduced to five-year-old Bertie, who is controlled by his pretentious and intellectual mother, Irene - he's learning the saxophone, speaks Italian, and is extremely knowledgeable about many subjects.
-
-
Author's way with words LOST
- By Jamie S. Gibson on 05-15-19
-
Chance Developments
- Stories
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Robert Ian Mackenzie, Jamie Jackson, John Keating, and others
- Length: 5 hrs and 22 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
It is said that a picture may be worth a thousand words, but an old photograph can inspire many more. In this beguiling book, Alexander McCall Smith casts his eye over five chanced-upon photographs from the era of black-and-white photography and imagines the stories behind them. Who were those people, what were their stories, why are they smiling, what made them sad?
-
-
Several "I wish that I had written that..."
- By N. David Blocher on 01-20-17
-
No 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency: BBC Radio Casebook
- BBC Radio 4 full-cast dramatisations
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Claire Benedict, full cast
- Length: 5 hrs and 52 mins
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Alexander McCall Smith's hugely popular novels featuring Precious Ramotswe, proprietor of Botswana's only female private detective agency, have become international best sellers. These acclaimed productions, complete with vibrant music, bring the exotic world of the books to life. In these eight episodes, Mma Ramotswe takes on her first case - and a new secretary; tries to solve a bone mystery; tackles a domestic drama and a doctor's erratic behaviour; and investigates the case of a missing American.
-
-
Calming
- By Katie on 09-01-19
-
Trains and Lovers
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Robert Ian Mackenzie
- Length: 5 hrs and 20 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In the words of Alexander McCall Smith: "You feel the rocking of the train, you hear the sound of its wheels on the rails; you are in the world rather than suspended somewhere above it. And sometimes there are conversations to be had, which is what the overarching story in this collection is all about. It is a simple device: people brought together entertain one another with tales of what happened to them on trains. It takes place on a journey I frequently make myself and know well, the journey between Edinburgh and London. It is best read on a train, preferably that one."
-
-
Loved It
- By sharon on 07-20-14
-
La's Orchestra Saves the World
- A Novel
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Emily Gray
- Length: 7 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In 1939, Lavender flees London to escape the German bombs and her shattered marriage. Settling in a small town, she pulls together a makeshift orchestra to help cope with the times.
-
-
McCall Smith Does It Again!
- By Pamela Harvey on 12-17-09
-
Tears of the Giraffe
- More from the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Lisette Lecat
- Length: 7 hrs and 50 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Now engaged to Mr. J.L.B. Matekoni, Mma Ramotswe must contend with the hostility of her fianci's unscrupulous maid, who quickly begins plotting the disintegration of the arrangement. Then an American woman asks for help to learn the truth behind her son's disappearance in Africa, and Mma Ramotswe has all the troubles she can handle.
-
-
A tender tale, sweetly told
- By Barbara on 08-30-05
-
44 Scotland Street: Series 1-3
- Full-cast radio adaptations of the much-loved novels
- By: Alexander McCall-Smith
- Narrated by: Crawford Logan, Carol Ann Crawford, full cast
- Length: 3 hrs and 24 mins
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Anthropologist Domenica MacDonald observes the lives of her neighbours and the neighbourhood in Edinburgh's New Town. Pat, a new young tenant, arrives at 44 Scotland Street to flat share with Bruce. Bruce is a surveyor with more of an eye for the ladies than a sound property. We're introduced to five-year-old Bertie, who is controlled by his pretentious and intellectual mother, Irene - he's learning the saxophone, speaks Italian, and is extremely knowledgeable about many subjects.
-
-
Author's way with words LOST
- By Jamie S. Gibson on 05-15-19
-
Chance Developments
- Stories
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Robert Ian Mackenzie, Jamie Jackson, John Keating, and others
- Length: 5 hrs and 22 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
It is said that a picture may be worth a thousand words, but an old photograph can inspire many more. In this beguiling book, Alexander McCall Smith casts his eye over five chanced-upon photographs from the era of black-and-white photography and imagines the stories behind them. Who were those people, what were their stories, why are they smiling, what made them sad?
-
-
Several "I wish that I had written that..."
- By N. David Blocher on 01-20-17
-
No 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency: BBC Radio Casebook
- BBC Radio 4 full-cast dramatisations
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Claire Benedict, full cast
- Length: 5 hrs and 52 mins
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Alexander McCall Smith's hugely popular novels featuring Precious Ramotswe, proprietor of Botswana's only female private detective agency, have become international best sellers. These acclaimed productions, complete with vibrant music, bring the exotic world of the books to life. In these eight episodes, Mma Ramotswe takes on her first case - and a new secretary; tries to solve a bone mystery; tackles a domestic drama and a doctor's erratic behaviour; and investigates the case of a missing American.
-
-
Calming
- By Katie on 09-01-19
-
Trains and Lovers
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Robert Ian Mackenzie
- Length: 5 hrs and 20 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In the words of Alexander McCall Smith: "You feel the rocking of the train, you hear the sound of its wheels on the rails; you are in the world rather than suspended somewhere above it. And sometimes there are conversations to be had, which is what the overarching story in this collection is all about. It is a simple device: people brought together entertain one another with tales of what happened to them on trains. It takes place on a journey I frequently make myself and know well, the journey between Edinburgh and London. It is best read on a train, preferably that one."
-
-
Loved It
- By sharon on 07-20-14
-
La's Orchestra Saves the World
- A Novel
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: Emily Gray
- Length: 7 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In 1939, Lavender flees London to escape the German bombs and her shattered marriage. Settling in a small town, she pulls together a makeshift orchestra to help cope with the times.
-
-
McCall Smith Does It Again!
- By Pamela Harvey on 12-17-09
-
The Man with the Silver Saab
- Detective Varg, Book 3
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: David Rintoul
- Length: 7 hrs and 33 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In the hilarious new novel in the best-selling Detective Varg series, an eminent art historian is framed and the ace investigators of the department of sensitive crimes are on the case.
-
-
I love Detective Varg!
- By Kirsten Anderson on 11-16-21
-
The Unexpected Mrs. Pollifax
- By: Dorothy Gilman
- Narrated by: Barbara Rosenblat
- Length: 8 hrs and 16 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Mrs. Virgil (Emily) Pollifax of New Brunswick, New Jersey, was a widow with grown children. She was tired of attending her Garden Club meetings. She wanted to do something good for her country. This first in the series sends Emily on her first case after she successfully persuades a skeptical CIA recruitment officer that she is the best person for the job.
-
-
What a Fun Adventure!
- By Wolfpacker on 03-18-14
By: Dorothy Gilman
-
The Good Pilot Peter Woodhouse
- By: Alexander McCall Smith
- Narrated by: David Rintoul
- Length: 6 hrs and 29 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Val Eliot, a young woman working on an English farm during the war, meets Mike, a US Air Force pilot stationed nearby. When Val rescues a Border Collie named Peter Woodhouse, who is being mistreated by his owner, she realizes the dog would actually be safer with Mike. And so Peter Woodhouse finds a new home on the air force base, and Val finds herself falling in love.
-
-
wonderful
- By T. Bellan on 04-23-18
-
A Man of Some Repute
- A Very English Mystery, Book 1
- By: Elizabeth Edmondson
- Narrated by: Michael Page
- Length: 8 hrs and 31 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Selchester Castle in 1953 sits quiet and near-empty, its corridors echoing with glories of the past. Or so it seems to intelligence officer Hugo Hawksworth, wounded on a secret mission and now reluctantly assuming an altogether less perilous role at Selchester.
-
-
Pretty good "pseudo" golden age mystery
- By Jerri C on 10-18-15
-
The Complete Sherlock Holmes
- The Heirloom Collection
- By: Arthur Conan Doyle
- Narrated by: Simon Vance
- Length: 58 hrs and 4 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes tales are rightly ranked among the seminal works of mystery and detective fiction. Included in this collection are all four full-length Holmes novels and more than forty short masterpieces - from the inaugural adventure A Study in Scarlet to timeless favorites like “The Speckled Band” and more. At the center of each stands the iconic figure of Holmes - brilliant, eccentric, and capable of amazing feats of deductive reasoning.
-
-
A Table of Contents & Audible Part/Chapter Notes
- By SantaFePainter on 11-18-13
-
A Curious Beginning
- By: Deanna Raybourn
- Narrated by: Angele Masters
- Length: 10 hrs and 51 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
As the city prepares to celebrate Queen Victoria's golden jubilee, Veronica Speedwell is marking a milestone of her own. After burying her spinster aunt, the orphaned Veronica is free to resume her world travels in pursuit of scientific inquiry - and the occasional romantic dalliance. As familiar with hunting butterflies as she is fending off admirers, Veronica wields her butterfly net and a hatpin with equal aplomb, and with her last connection to England gone, she intends to embark upon the journey of a lifetime.
-
-
Incredibly self-indulgent of the author
- By Michelle on 09-18-19
By: Deanna Raybourn
-
Murphy's Law
- By: Rhys Bowen
- Narrated by: Nicola Barber
- Length: 7 hrs and 32 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Molly Murphy always knew she'd end up in trouble, just as her mother predicted. So, when she commits murder in self-defense, she flees her cherished Ireland, under cover of a false identity, for the anonymous shores of late 19th-century America. When she arrives in New York and sees the welcoming promise of freedom in the Statue of Liberty, Molly begins to breathe easier. But when a man is murdered on Ellis Island, a man Molly was seen arguing with, she becomes a prime suspect in the crime.
-
-
Cream Puff Read
- By Jan on 12-19-13
By: Rhys Bowen
-
The Body in the Library
- A Miss Marple Mystery
- By: Agatha Christie
- Narrated by: Stephanie Cole
- Length: 5 hrs and 21 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
It's seven in the morning. The Bantrys wake to find the body of a young woman in their library.She is wearing an evening dress and heavy makeup, which is now smeared across her cheeks. But who is she? How did she get there? And what is the connection with another dead girl, whose charred remains are later discovered in an abandoned quarry? The respectable Bantrys invite Miss Marple to solve the mystery... before tongues start to wag.
-
-
Another classic
- By Katie Middleton on 03-16-19
By: Agatha Christie
-
A Very English Murder
- A Lady Eleanor Swift Mystery, Book 1
- By: Verity Bright
- Narrated by: Karen Cass
- Length: 8 hrs and 56 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
England, 1920. Eleanor Swift has spent the last few years travelling the world: taking tea in China, tasting alligators in Peru, escaping bandits in Persia and she has just arrived in England after a chaotic 45-day flight from South Africa. Chipstone is about the sleepiest town you could have the misfortune to meet. But then, from the edge of a quarry, through the driving rain, Eleanor is shocked to see a man shot and killed in the distance. Before she can climb down to the spot, the villain is gone and the body has vanished.
-
-
I wanted to like this so much.
- By BossyFatBabe on 06-23-20
By: Verity Bright
-
A Quiet Life in the Country
- A Lady Hardcastle Mystery, Book 1
- By: T E Kinsey
- Narrated by: Elizabeth Knowelden
- Length: 7 hrs and 43 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Lady Emily Hardcastle is an eccentric widow with a secret past. Florence Armstrong, her maid and confidante, is an expert in martial arts. The year is 1908 and they've just moved from London to the country, hoping for a quiet life. But it is not long before Lady Hardcastle is forced out of her self-imposed retirement. There's a dead body in the woods, and the police are on the wrong scent. Lady Hardcastle makes some enquiries of her own, and it seems she knows a surprising amount about crime investigation...
-
-
A nice cozy read!
- By BikeVON on 11-30-16
By: T E Kinsey
-
The Help
- By: Kathryn Stockett
- Narrated by: Jenna Lamia, Bahni Turpin, Octavia Spencer, and others
- Length: 18 hrs and 16 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In pitch-perfect voices, Kathryn Stockett creates three extraordinary women whose determination to start a movement of their own forever changes a town, and the way women—mothers, daughters, caregivers, friends—view one another. A deeply moving novel filled with poignancy, humor, and hope, The Help is a timeless and universal story about the lines we abide by, and the ones we don't.
-
-
What a great surprise!
- By Jan on 12-02-09
By: Kathryn Stockett
-
Her Royal Spyness
- By: Rhys Bowen
- Narrated by: Katherine Kellgren
- Length: 8 hrs and 4 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Agatha Award-winning author Rhys Bowen’s charming combination of intrigue and romance blended with a touch of humor shines when performed by Audible Hall of Fame narrator Katherine Kellgren, whose deft range and impeccable accent work make it hard to believe this isn’t a multicast performance.
-
-
Such Fun
- By Dylan on 02-04-16
By: Rhys Bowen
Publisher's Summary
Mma "Precious" Ramotswe sets up a detective agency in Botswana on the edge of the Kalahari Desert, making her the only female detective in the country. At first, cases are hard to come by. But eventually, troubled people come to Precious with a variety of concerns. Potentially philandering husbands, seemingly schizophrenic doctors, and a missing boy who may have been killed by witch doctors all compel Precious to roam about in her tiny van, searching for clues.
Chosen as a Top Ten Mystery by the Organization of Independent Booksellers, U.S.A., The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency is that rare novel that imparts a sage wisdom while inspiring hearty laughter and lasting smiles.
Critic Reviews
- Book Sense Book of the Year Award Finalist, Paperback, 2003
- Edgar Allan Poe Award Winner, Best First Novel by an American Author, 1998
"One of the most entrancing literary treats of many a year...A tapestry of extraordinary nuance and richness." (Wall Street Journal)
"An artful, pleasing novel...General audiences will welcome this little gem of a book just as much if not more than mystery readers." (Publishers Weekly)
"Smart and sassy...Precious' progress is charted in passages that have the power to amuse or shock or touch the heart, sometimes all at once." (Los Angeles Times)
What listeners say about The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency
Average Customer RatingsReviews - Please select the tabs below to change the source of reviews.
-
Overall
- Gene
- 12-07-03
Transcends its Genre
Sometimes a book that supposedly inhabits a certain genre breaks away and becomes literature. That is true of this book, which unveils an entire universe practically unknown to most of its readers: Botswana and Africa. This is a horizon-widening book, and to call it detective fiction is like referring similarly to Crime and Punishment. When describing it, one is tempted to describe it as hilarious, and it certainly has many hilarious aspects, but it also has moments of sadness and empathy, sometimes with the perpetrator of a crime. The love of Africa is another element that shines forth. The narrator seemed to me to be the Merryl Streep of naration, rendering accents with a musical, dead-on, laconic precision compared to the way I thought they should sound. I don't have time to finish this review, unfortunately -- I'm busy listening to The Tears of the Giraffe, the next in the series...
88 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- AudioAddict
- 04-14-15
Simple and Easy ... Wonderful African Setting
STORY (modern fiction) - Yes, the title of the book has the word "detective" in it and the main character is a detective, but this is not your typical detective book. The main character, Precious Ramotswe, is female, self-admittedly very fat, and has no detective training whatsoever. She lives in Botswana and drives a tiny white van (three words which you will hear about 50 times). She just decides to open up a detective business and does it. Throughout the book she is referred to as "Mma Ramotswe," which apparently is some form of title similar to Miss or Madam or Mrs. and is pronounced "Ma."
Anyway, Mma Ramotswe solves probably six or seven mysteries throughout the book. They are all fairly simple problems like following a possible cheating husband or figuring out why a doctor seems to be behaving strangely. She solves these problems with nothing more than a good heart, common sense and some very creative lying. Yes, lying. She drives around in that tiny white van following people, then comes up with some pretty good whoppers to convince them to tell her what she needs to know so she can solve her case. And she always does.
The book is very easy listening. You're not going to get anxious or sad, and your mind can wonder a bit and you won't lose your place. That's not to say it's boring. It's well written with nice descriptions of African landscape and villages. It's just easy, entertaining and a nice little escape to Africa!
PERFORMANCE - Ms. Lecat has a lovely voice. I don't know if her accent is authentic African, but it convinced me. She also performs some nice male characters, one with a convincing Indian accent as well. Sometimes I could kind of her her lips opening and closing which was a little distracting, but she did a great job overall.
OVERALL - Very clean book with no sex, cursing or violence. I think it would appeal mostly to adult females, but I suppose guys and teenagers could also find it enjoyable. This is Book 1 of the series, so there is more character development and family history than I would expect in later books. The story can stand alone.
42 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Andrew
- 05-07-04
an excellent piece of literature
i have to admit that i purchased this novel thinking i would be getting a detective story along the lines of sherlock holmes or agatha christie. but this book is so much more than a detective story. it is a story of love and africa, the kalahari sun and simplicity, the joys and heartaches of a family, and the triumphs of the human spirit.
the narrator is poignant and articulate and communicates very effectively the simplicity and unburdened hearts of her characters. her accents are impeccable and the listener can almost feel the sun on their brow and the dry wind at their back. a narrator can make or break a title, and i can't imagine reading this title as a book - the narrator brings out so many nuances that i would have missed simply with the written word. her efficacy ranks up there with the narrator of <i>life of pi</i> and <i>why we buy</i>.
i was also surprised that, as character-driven as this book is, i held my attention through to the very end. the author is very skilled at offering little details and background settings that intrigue the listener and cause one to want to push further and discover if these little details are going to be important later on. rarely was i disappointed. the book fits together like a difficult jigsaw puzzle: many pieces that somehow make a beautiful picture once that last piece is filled in. even more beautiful is that the pieces are so often portraits of the heart of the author's intimately crafted characters.
31 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Lisa
- 08-13-05
This book made my life better
I do not usually go for detective stories, however, as someone already mentioned, this is more of a cultural exploration, introducing an idealistic side of Africa that is not generally portrayed in the US. The narration is genious - I could happily listen to Lisette Lecat for the rest of my life. The story is relentlessly cheerful without being sappy, and is deceptively complex while feeling soooo easy and pleasurable. I am easily swayed by emotional affect in stories, and this one could cure any existential crisis...
41 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Solutions Architect
- 11-26-03
Delightful and Interesting Story
My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed this charming story. It reveals the beauty of an African culture through well constructed, believable characters. It is wonderfully narrated by Ms. Lecat
27 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- V. Crowley
- 11-06-09
Wonderful Book
This book has a wonderful, gentle pace. It was disconcerting at first because I kept waiting to be swept into the main plot, but that never seemed to happen. Don't be put off by the unusual format because it soon becomes addictive.
The main storyline is not concerened with one case as most detective novels are. Instead, we have vignettes from the life of Precious and her first cases as a detective. The main case, the disappearance of a child, is a dark subplot, which brings forward the memories of spousal abuse experienced by Precious herself.
This is a really satisfying book. I can see why it was televised by the BBC and featured on HBO. I just purchased the next in the series and can't wait to get started.
21 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- LMN
- 03-01-04
I have found a new favorite detective!
If you like Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot and more classic detective fiction, you will probably enjoy this work quite a lot. I find some of the "modern" detective stories too dark and depressing with detectives it is hard to like and a view of human nature that I find far from reality. This book is filled with characters you would like to get to know and people who you can see in your friends and neighbors. Even the villians and criminals are recognizable.
The book is filled with insightful and humourous comments about the human nature, and a simple wisdom that I loved. I will definitely be reading and listening to more from this author.
26 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Tanya
- 06-08-05
Not to be missed!
I had a little trouble getting started with this book - I started it, found it too slow and put it away for quite a while. I was convinced to try again and was entranced. I became so engrossed with the style and easy pace of the novel and Precious, I was disappointed when the book ended. This is not an action packed adventure novel but rather a poetic and magical tale. I just discovered to my joy that this is only the first in a series! I had never given Botswana much thought before listening to this book and now wish I could visit... Highly recommended.
16 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Book and Movie Lover
- 01-02-04
Wonderful story, full of surprises
When I bought this audio book I had never heard of the series so I was delighted to find it was the first of many. After listening to this one I immediately purchased the other books in the series (I think there are 4 or 5). Having listened and not read all of the books in the series, I'm not sure of the spelling of the detective's name, but it sounds like Maura Motswe. Anyway, she is he lady who starts the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency in Botswana. The reader reads the book in a wonderful lilting voice and immitates the characters in the book very well. The author uses wonderful language to describe Africa and it's easy to imagine being there yourself. I found this entire series very enjoyable, very easy to listen to, and one that I will want to listen to again and again. A fun and uplifting reading experience. My husband really enjoyed the books as well, so this is definitely not a "Ladies' only" recommendation!
15 people found this helpful
-
Overall
- Alex
- 10-15-06
Refreshing change!
As an avid mystery reader, I find I need an occasional change of pace from plots that are fast moving or suspenseful. For this ease of tension, I look for "cozy mysteries" employing a plot in which the murder has already been committed, and we follow the detective in the investigation. No.1 Ladies D.A. is this slower, more relaxing pace with different outlooks on the culture and landscape of Africa. The reader reflects this pace in her approach with excellent use of accents, adding to the whole experience and immersing us in the life of Mma Ramotswe, lady detective. I can't wait to read the rest of the series and try other books by the author!
14 people found this helpful