In Part 2 of our conversation with Lillian Daniel, we move deeper into the tensions at the heart of her story—and the bigger questions it raises for the modern church.

If Part 1 explored what happened, this episode asks what it means.

We talk about accountability, institutional systems, and whether the church is actually capable of handling failure in a way that leads to healing rather than harm.

📚 About Lillian Daniel

Lillian Daniel is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and currently serves as a Conference Minister, overseeing churches and clergy across Michigan.

She has taught preaching at institutions including Yale Divinity School and the University of Chicago, and is the author of multiple books on faith, ministry, and the evolving role of the church.

Her latest book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, explores her own experience with discipline, failure, and restoration—and what it reveals about the systems meant to hold leaders accountable.

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📝 Episode Summary

Drawing from her new book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, Lillian shares her journey through ministry, the unexpected challenges she encountered, and the moments that forced her to rethink long-held assumptions about leadership, faith, and belonging.

This episode is an honest look at what happens when certainty begins to crack—and why that might not be the end of faith, but the beginning of something more real.

📚 About the Book

Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church

A candid and often humorous reflection on ministry, failure, and the possibility of a more honest and compassionate church. Lillian Daniel offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at pastoral life—challenging assumptions while pointing toward a healthier future.

👤 About the Guest

Lillian Daniel is a United Church of Christ minister, author, and speaker known for her wit, honesty, and thoughtful critique of modern church culture. Her work often explores faith, doubt, leadership, and the evolving role of the church in contemporary life.

🔗 Resources & Links

• Find Lillian’s book wherever books are sold

• Learn more about her work and writing: www.lilliandaniel.com

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What happens when the version of you that survived… isn’t the version of you that’s whole?

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Cristy Carr, we move deeper—beyond awareness and into the work of healing. Together, we explore what it looks like to reconnect with the parts of ourselves that were silenced, shaped, or suppressed by trauma, religious systems, and the need to belong.

This episode isn’t about quick fixes or easy answers. It’s about the slow, often uncomfortable process of becoming whole again.

Dr. Cristy Carr is a therapist, speaker, and author of The Forgotten Self. Her work focuses on trauma, identity formation, and helping individuals reconnect with their authentic selves—especially those navigating faith transitions and deconstruction.

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Special music provided by: Forrest Clay from the Recover EP.