The Deconstructionists Podcast

Guest: Dr. Michelle Keener

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Keener, we go deeper into the themes of her book, Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors, and what it means to engage scripture after certainty has cracked.

If Part 1 explored how harmful interpretations take root, this episode focuses on what comes after—especially for those navigating trauma, deconstruction, and the loss of familiar frameworks.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How trauma reshapes identity, faith, and one’s image of God
• Why grief, anger, and protest are not spiritual failures
• How Job’s refusal to accept easy answers can be a model for honesty
• What it looks like to reconstruct meaning without rushing toward certainty

Dr. Keener brings both scholarly depth and deep compassion to this conversation, offering language and insight for experiences many people struggle to name.

If you’ve ever been told your pain needed a theological explanation…

If you’ve been pressured to “trust God” instead of being heard…

Or if you’re learning how to hold faith with open hands—

This conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.

https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors.

The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience.

In Part 1, we focus on foundations:

• How the Book of Job has traditionally been taught—and why those interpretations often fail trauma survivors
• The difference between theological explanation and pastoral care
• Why certainty can feel safer than honesty, even when it causes harm
• How questioning inherited beliefs can be an act of survival, not rebellion

This conversation isn’t about solving suffering or defending doctrine.

It’s about slowing down, listening well, and making room for pain without trying to explain it away.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.

https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

In Part Two of our conversation with John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, we move from historical foundations to present-day consequences.

Once Jesus is understood within the realities of Roman imperial power, the implications become unavoidable — especially in a moment when Christianity in the United States is increasingly entangled with political authority, violence, and domination.

In this episode, we explore:

• The meaning of the “Kingdom of God” in contrast to imperial power
• Nonviolence, resistance, and the cost of discipleship
• How Christianity shifted from challenging empire to aligning with it
• The difference between domination systems and distributive justice
• Why these ancient tensions feel so familiar today

This isn’t about telling listeners what to believe politically.

It’s about asking whether Christianity still resembles the movement it began as — or whether comfort and power have rewritten the story.

The questions raised in this episode aren’t abstract or theoretical. They echo loudly in today’s debates about nationalism, violence, faith, and identity in the United States.

By grounding the conversation in history, Crossan and Okinczyc-Cruz offer listeners tools — not talking points — to think critically about how faith operates in the real world.

If this episode resonated with you, we encourage you to explore the works linked above and join us for ongoing discussions at www.thedeconstructionsts.org where you can join our Patreon, read our blog, and listen to our entire back catalogue of over 200 episodes!

Special music provide by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.