In this first half of our conversation with Sarah Hurwitz—author, former White House speechwriter, and chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama—we explore her journey from the political stage to a deeply personal exploration of faith. Sarah was part of President Obama’s speechwriting team, helping craft some of his most memorable addresses, before turning her attention to spirituality and Jewish identity.

Her latest book, Here All Along: Finding Meaning, Spirituality, and a Deeper Connection to Life—in Judaism (After Finally Choosing to Look There), invites readers to rediscover ancient wisdom and reimagine what faith can mean in the modern world.

In Part One, we talk about:

• Sarah’s path from politics to spirituality.
• What drew her to reconnect with her Jewish roots.
• The inspiration and process behind writing Here All Along.
• Why ancient traditions can still speak powerfully today.

Sarah Hurwitz served as a senior speechwriter for President Barack Obama and as chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama from 2010 to 2017. Since leaving the White House, she has become a leading voice in exploring spirituality and Jewish identity for a new generation.

• 📖 Book: Here All Along (Amazon)
• website: https://www.sarahhurwitz.net/
• 🌐 Author Page: Penguin Random House – Sarah Hurwitz

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Episode Summary

The Bible is often treated as if it arrived perfectly bound, leather-covered, and gold-edged, straight from heaven. But the reality is far more complex—and far more interesting.

In this episode, we dig into the real history of how the Bible was formed—from its earliest writings to the process of canonization, from the Apocrypha to translation controversies, and why no one alive today has ever held an original manuscript.

We’ll talk about:

• When the books were likely written

• Who scholars think wrote them

• Why certain books were included or excluded

• The political and theological forces that shaped the canon

• How translation is never neutral

• Why inerrancy is a recent idea in Christian history

By the end, you’ll see the Bible not as a static, untouchable artifact, but as a living record shaped by people, history, culture, and language.

Key Topics Covered

• The Bible as a library, not a single book

• Timeline of Old and New Testament composition

• The development of the Jewish Scriptures and Christian canon

• The role of councils and church politics in determining canon

• The Apocrypha—what it is and why it’s in some Bibles but not others

• How the Dead Sea Scrolls changed what we know about biblical history

• Why we don’t have original manuscripts, and how scholars reconstruct the text

• Major translation milestones—from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate to the King James Version to modern editions

• How the concept of biblical inerrancy only took root in the late 19th–early 20th centuries

Primary Sources & Scholarship

The research for this episode draws from respected biblical scholars, historians, and textual critics, including:

Canon Formation & Authorship

• Bart D. Ehrman – Jesus, Interrupted; Misquoting Jesus; Lost Scriptures

• John Barton – A History of the Bible: The Story of the World’s Most Influential Book

• Bruce M. Metzger – The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance

• Lee Martin McDonald – The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority

Dating & Historical Context

• Paul’s letters: c. 50–60 CE

• Gospel of Mark: c. 65–70 CE

• Matthew & Luke: c. 80–90 CE

• John: c. 90–100 CE

• Revelation: c. 95 CE

• John J. Collins – Introduction to the Hebrew Bible

Dead Sea Scrolls

• Lawrence H. Schiffman – Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls

• James VanderKam – The Dead Sea Scrolls Today

Excluded & Apocryphal Texts

• Marvin Meyer – The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus

• Karen L. King – The Gospel of Mary of Magdala

• Timothy Michael Law – When God Spoke Greek: The Septuagint and the Making of the Christian Bible

Textual Criticism & Manuscripts

• Daniel B. Wallace – works on New Testament textual variants and manuscript dating

• Eldon Jay Epp – Perspectives on New Testament Textual Criticism

Translation History & Inerrancy

• Peter Enns – The Bible Tells Me So

• Kenton L. Sparks – God’s Word in Human Words

• Mark Noll – The Civil War as a Theological Crisis

Special music by Forrest Clay from the Recover EP. Find it anywhere you find your music!

In Part 2 of our conversation with Bailey Krawczyk, we move from the experience of life inside Hillsong to the harrowing process of getting out. Bailey opens up about the aftermath of leaving, the emotional toll of speaking out in the Hillsong documentary, and the backlash from those still inside the movement.

We also explore the broader systems that allowed abuse and control to flourish unchecked—and why naming these systems is the first step toward healing.

• The trauma of leaving a high-control religious group
• Psychological aftermath: shame, guilt, grief, and recovery
• The media spotlight and what it didn’t show
• How systems of power protect abusive leadership
• Deconstructing your faith after spiritual betrayal

Bailey Krawczyk continues to advocate for survivors of spiritual and institutional abuse. Her story has resonated with thousands of others who have walked away from toxic faith environments in search of something more whole, more honest, and more human.

• Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed [Discovery+ / Hulu]
• https://www.instagram.com/baileykrawczyk/
• Film: https://vimeo.com/1088719956
• [Book recommendation] When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat
• [Podcast] Leaving Hillsong
• [Resource] ICSA: International Cultic Studies Association – www.icsahome.com

If this conversation resonated with you, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review The Deconstructionists wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with someone who might be ready to hear it.

Special music by Forrest Clay from the Recover E.P.

In this first of a two-part conversation, we sit down with Bailey Krawczyk, a former Hillsong member who bravely spoke out in the Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed documentary. Bailey shares what initially drew her to the movement—its music, its energy, its promises of purpose—and how that promise slowly unraveled.

From inside the worship team to behind-the-scenes control tactics, Bailey gives us a raw, unfiltered look at life inside one of the most influential—and controversial—church brands in the world.

If you’ve ever felt conflicted about your time in a megachurch, or questioned how power and performance intersect with faith, this episode is for you.

• How Hillsong built an emotionally immersive culture
• The fine line between community and control
• The spiritual cost of performance-based faith
• Early red flags that often go unnoticed
• What “high control” church culture really looks like

Bailey Krawczyk is a former Hillsong member and whistleblower featured in the Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed documentary. Her advocacy work now focuses on empowering survivors of spiritual abuse and raising awareness about high-control religious environments.

• Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed [Discovery+ / Hulu]
• https://www.instagram.com/baileykrawczyk/
• Film: https://vimeo.com/1088719956
• [Book recommendation] When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat
• [Podcast] Leaving Hillsong
• [Resource] ICSA: International Cultic Studies Association – www.icsahome.com

If this conversation resonated with you, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review The Deconstructionists Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with someone who might be ready to hear it.

Special Music by Forrest Clay from the Recover E.P.

In this episode, we step into one of the most emotionally and politically charged issues in modern history—the war in Gaza and the roots of Zionism. With so much confusion around the history, theology, and current events, we take a step back to examine how we got here and why it matters.

We trace the origins of modern Zionism, the rise of the state of Israel, and how Western Christianity—particularly American evangelicalism—has shaped both the theology and the politics that continue to impact real people on the ground. This episode isn’t about taking easy sides. It’s about understanding the deeper story beneath the headlines.

• What is Zionism and where did it come from?
• The Balfour Declaration and British colonial influence
• The founding of the state of Israel in 1948
• The Nakba and its lasting impact on Palestinian people
• How American evangelicalism helped shape U.S. foreign policy toward Israel
• The role of Dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible
• Christian Zionism vs. ethical Christian responsibility
• The ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza
• Why understanding this history matters for people of faith today

Books & Articles

• “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pappé
• “A Wall in Palestine” by René Backmann
• “Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews” by Alan Hart
• “Blood Brothers” by Elias Chacour
• “The Bible and Zionism” by Nur Masalha
• “The Iron Cage: The Story of the Palestinian Struggle for Statehood” by Rashid Khalidi
• “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” by Stephen Sizer
• “The Bible, The Jews, and the Death of Jesus” by Adele Reinhartz

Documentaries & Media

• The Law in These Parts (documentary)
• Al Nakba (Al Jazeera English documentary series)
• Occupation 101 (2006 documentary on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict)
• With God On Our Side (Christian Zionism documentary by Porter Speakman Jr.)

Other Resources

• B’Tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
• Jewish Voice for Peace
• IfNotNow Movement
• Kairos Palestine Document (2009)

If this episode challenged or inspired you, please consider leaving a review and sharing it with a friend.

Episode Description:

In the year 897, Pope Stephen VI ordered the rotting corpse of his predecessor, Pope Formosus, to be dug up, dressed in papal robes, propped up on a throne, and put on trial.

Yes, this actually happened.

This bizarre and macabre moment in church history—known as the Cadaver Synod or Synodus Horrenda—is one of the most infamous (and grotesque) episodes of the medieval papacy. In this episode, John Williamson dives deep into the political chaos of 9th-century Rome, explains how the corpse trial came to be, and breaks down why the church literally put a dead pope on the stand.

Get ready for a tale of revenge, power, posthumous punishment, and one of the most unhinged trials in recorded history.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Who Pope Formosus was, and why his enemies hated him

• Why Pope Stephen VI risked total scandal to hold the corpse trial

• What actually happened during the Synod—from propping up the corpse to cutting off its fingers

• How this event caused riots, a papal overthrow, and a historical backlash that shaped future church policy

• How the corpse trial symbolizes the violent politics of the medieval church

Sources & Research References:

1. Duffy, Eamon. Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes (Yale University Press, 1997).

2. Norwich, John Julius. Absolute Monarchs: A History of the Papacy (Random House, 2011).

3. Mann, Horace K. The Lives of the Popes in the Early Middle Ages, Vol. IV (1902).

4. Partner, Peter. The Pope’s Men: The Papal Civil Service in the Renaissance (Oxford University Press, 1990).

5. Collins, Roger. Keepers of the Keys of Heaven: A History of the Papacy (Basic Books, 2009).

6. De Rosa, Peter. Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy (Crown, 1988).

7. Catholic Encyclopedia (1913 edition) – “Pope Formosus” and “Cadaver Synod” entries

8. New Advent: “Synod Horrenda” entry

9. History Extra – BBC History Magazine: “The Cadaver Synod: Why a Pope Went on Trial After Death”

10. JSTOR Daily – “The Time the Catholic Church Put a Dead Pope on Trial”

11. Atlas Obscura – “The Cadaver Synod: The Time a Dead Pope Was Put on Trial”

Listener Questions & Reactions:

Have thoughts on the corpse trial? Theories? Favorite pope gossip?

Drop John a message at historyonthemarginspod@gmail.com, or join the conversation online using the hashtag #CorpseSynod or #HistoryOnTheMargins

📌 Episode Summary:

In this deeply insightful episode, John sits down with Dr. Paula Swindle—a licensed therapist and professor who has spent a career studying religious trauma —to unpack the concept of spiritual bypass, the psychological consequences of religious trauma, and the subtle ways churches often silence dissent.

Dr. Swindle brings decades of experience working at the intersection of psychology and faith, offering a compassionate and deeply informed perspective for anyone trying to untangle their religious experience from their identity and healing journey. If you’ve ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” this conversation is for you.

Originally recorded for Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, this interview felt too important not to share here as well. For the full series: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

🔑 Topics Covered:

• What is spiritual bypass and how does it show up in churches?

• Why “positive vibes only” culture can be harmful in religious spaces

• The long-term impact of suppressing anger, grief, and doubt

• How faith communities often retraumatize survivors of abuse

• Practical ways to reclaim your story and find safe support

📚 Recommended Resources:

• Our boy Dan's podcast: You Have Permission: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-religion-hurts-you-229/id1448000113?i=1000640316552

🗣️ Join the Conversation:

Have you experienced spiritual bypass or church-related trauma? We’d love to hear your story. Tag us on social media or reach out privately.

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #SpiritualBypass #ChurchTrauma #ReligiousRecovery #FaithAndHealing

📌 Episode Summary:

In Part 2 of this powerful and emotional interview, Adey and Tom Wassink continue their story of navigating faith, integrity, and exclusion. After years of dedicated service in the Vineyard Movement, their decision to affirm LGBTQ people came with real consequences—not just within the church, but in their community, friendships, and calling.

They speak candidly about the silence that followed, the weight of institutional disappointment, and how they found freedom on the other side. This is a story of courage, conviction, and ultimately—hope.

📚 Recommended Follow-Up:

• Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Episode 6

• Resources on LGBTQ-affirming theology

• [Music by Q Jones] "Before I Go Home"

🙏 Support the Show:

If this conversation moved you, consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review, or tagging us on social media. These stories matter—and your voice helps amplify them.

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #SpiritualIntegrity #AffirmingFaith