📝 Episode Summary

Drawing from her new book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, Lillian shares her journey through ministry, the unexpected challenges she encountered, and the moments that forced her to rethink long-held assumptions about leadership, faith, and belonging.

This episode is an honest look at what happens when certainty begins to crack—and why that might not be the end of faith, but the beginning of something more real.

📚 About the Book

Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church

A candid and often humorous reflection on ministry, failure, and the possibility of a more honest and compassionate church. Lillian Daniel offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at pastoral life—challenging assumptions while pointing toward a healthier future.

👤 About the Guest

Lillian Daniel is a United Church of Christ minister, author, and speaker known for her wit, honesty, and thoughtful critique of modern church culture. Her work often explores faith, doubt, leadership, and the evolving role of the church in contemporary life.

🔗 Resources & Links

• Find Lillian’s book wherever books are sold

• Learn more about her work and writing: www.lilliandaniel.com

🎙️ Support the Show

If you enjoyed this episode, you can support The Deconstructionists Podcast by:

• Joining our Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and educational videos: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

• Checking out our merch store (ships worldwide): https://thedeconstructionists.printify.me/

• Leaving a rating & review—it really helps others find the show

What happens when the version of you that survived… isn’t the version of you that’s whole?

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Cristy Carr, we move deeper—beyond awareness and into the work of healing. Together, we explore what it looks like to reconnect with the parts of ourselves that were silenced, shaped, or suppressed by trauma, religious systems, and the need to belong.

This episode isn’t about quick fixes or easy answers. It’s about the slow, often uncomfortable process of becoming whole again.

Dr. Cristy Carr is a therapist, speaker, and author of The Forgotten Self. Her work focuses on trauma, identity formation, and helping individuals reconnect with their authentic selves—especially those navigating faith transitions and deconstruction.

❤️ Support The Show

If you found this conversation meaningful, there are a few ways to support The Deconstructionists Podcast:

• ⭐ Leave a rating & review

• 🔁 Share this episode with someone who might need it

• 👕 Check out our merch store (ships worldwide!) www.thedeconstructionists.org

• 🎥 Join our Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and educational deep dives:

👉 https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special music provided by: Forrest Clay from the Recover EP.

🧭 Episode Summary

Who were you… before you were told who to be?

For many of us—especially those shaped by religious systems—identity isn’t something we discovered. It’s something we inherited.

Beliefs. Roles. Expectations.

All layered over time until the line between who we are and who we were told to be becomes hard to see.

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, we sit down with Cristy S. Carr to explore the core ideas behind her book The Forgotten Self—and what it means to lose connection with ourselves in the pursuit of certainty, belonging, and faithfulness.

This episode is less about what we believe…

and more about who we’ve become in the process of believing.

📚 About the Guest

Cristy S. Carr is an author, theologian, and speaker whose work focuses on identity, spirituality, and the process of reconnecting with the self. Her book The Forgotten Self explores how we lose touch with who we are—and how we begin to find our way back.

Grab a copy of her new book: https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Self-Remember-Who-Truly/dp/B0G51WPJZN

🔥 Support the Show

If you want to support The Deconstructionists Podcast:

🎥 Join our Patreon

Get access to exclusive content, deep-dive educational videos, and bonus conversations

👉 https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

👕 Check out our merch store

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www.thedeconstructionsts.org

⭐ Leave a review

It helps more people find the show

Episode: Violence and the Bible – What Do We Do With It?

🧭 Episode Summary

Violence is everywhere in the Bible—and for many, it’s one of the most difficult aspects of scripture to reconcile with the idea of a loving God.

In this episode, John explores one of the most pressing and personal questions facing modern readers of the Bible:

What do we do with the violence in scripture—and what does it mean for us today?

Prompted by a recent discussion group and unfolding global events, this episode wrestles with:

• Whether violence is ever justified

• The ethics of war, self-defense, and state power

• How ancient texts have been used—and misused—to justify modern violence

Rather than offering easy answers, this conversation leans into the tension, drawing on biblical scholarship, theology, and ethical philosophy to better understand what the Bible is—and what it is not.

📚 Scholars & Works Referenced

🧠 Foundational Biblical & Ethical Scholarship

• Peter Enns — How the Bible Actually Works

→ Argues that the Bible reflects the perspectives of ancient people trying to understand God, rather than functioning as a rulebook dictated from heaven.

• Greg Boyd — The Crucifixion of the Warrior God

→ Proposes that violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament are refracted through human understanding and ultimately point toward the nonviolent revelation of God in Jesus.

• Eric A. Seibert — Disturbing Divine Behavior

→ Explores troubling depictions of God in scripture and argues that not all portrayals of God in the Bible should be accepted as morally authoritative.

• John J. Collins — Does the Bible Justify Violence?

→ Examines how biblical texts have historically been used to justify violence and urges careful, contextual interpretation.

• Miroslav Volf — Exclusion and Embrace

→ Reflects on violence, justice, and reconciliation in light of human conflict and the Christian call to forgiveness.

🧠 Ethical & Philosophical Perspectives

• Jonathan Sacks — Essays on Ethics

→ Engages deeply with moral questions surrounding violence, responsibility, and the misuse of religious texts.

• Stanley Hauerwas — The Peaceable Kingdom

→ Advocates for a distinctly Christian ethic rooted in nonviolence and the teachings of Jesus.

• Reinhold Niebuhr — Moral Man and Immoral Society

→ Explores the tension between personal ethics and collective political responsibility, including the justification of force.

💬 Join the Conversation

What do you think?

Is violence ever justified? How do you interpret the difficult passages in scripture?

Join us on social or continue the conversation on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

The Deconstructionists Podcast

Guest: Dr. Michelle Keener

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Keener, we go deeper into the themes of her book, Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors, and what it means to engage scripture after certainty has cracked.

If Part 1 explored how harmful interpretations take root, this episode focuses on what comes after—especially for those navigating trauma, deconstruction, and the loss of familiar frameworks.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How trauma reshapes identity, faith, and one’s image of God
• Why grief, anger, and protest are not spiritual failures
• How Job’s refusal to accept easy answers can be a model for honesty
• What it looks like to reconstruct meaning without rushing toward certainty

Dr. Keener brings both scholarly depth and deep compassion to this conversation, offering language and insight for experiences many people struggle to name.

If you’ve ever been told your pain needed a theological explanation…

If you’ve been pressured to “trust God” instead of being heard…

Or if you’re learning how to hold faith with open hands—

This conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.

https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors.

The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience.

In Part 1, we focus on foundations:

• How the Book of Job has traditionally been taught—and why those interpretations often fail trauma survivors
• The difference between theological explanation and pastoral care
• Why certainty can feel safer than honesty, even when it causes harm
• How questioning inherited beliefs can be an act of survival, not rebellion

This conversation isn’t about solving suffering or defending doctrine.

It’s about slowing down, listening well, and making room for pain without trying to explain it away.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them.

https://www.michellekeener.com/

For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

In Part Two of our conversation with John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, we move from historical foundations to present-day consequences.

Once Jesus is understood within the realities of Roman imperial power, the implications become unavoidable — especially in a moment when Christianity in the United States is increasingly entangled with political authority, violence, and domination.

In this episode, we explore:

• The meaning of the “Kingdom of God” in contrast to imperial power
• Nonviolence, resistance, and the cost of discipleship
• How Christianity shifted from challenging empire to aligning with it
• The difference between domination systems and distributive justice
• Why these ancient tensions feel so familiar today

This isn’t about telling listeners what to believe politically.

It’s about asking whether Christianity still resembles the movement it began as — or whether comfort and power have rewritten the story.

The questions raised in this episode aren’t abstract or theoretical. They echo loudly in today’s debates about nationalism, violence, faith, and identity in the United States.

By grounding the conversation in history, Crossan and Okinczyc-Cruz offer listeners tools — not talking points — to think critically about how faith operates in the real world.

If this episode resonated with you, we encourage you to explore the works linked above and join us for ongoing discussions at www.thedeconstructionsts.org where you can join our Patreon, read our blog, and listen to our entire back catalogue of over 200 episodes!

Special music provide by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we’re joined by John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz for the first part of a wide-ranging conversation about Jesus, empire, and why historical context matters now more than ever.

As religion, power, and nationalism continue to collide in the United States, this conversation feels remarkably timely — not because it’s reacting to current events, but because it’s rooted deeply in history.

In Part One, we focus on setting the foundation:

• The world of the Roman Empire and how it shaped early Christianity
• Why Jesus must be understood as a first-century Jewish figure under imperial occupation
• What happens when modern readers remove Jesus from his historical context
• Why asking historical questions doesn’t weaken faith — but often deepens it

This episode invites listeners to take the Bible seriously enough to let it challenge modern assumptions about power, violence, and faithfulness.

John Dominic Crossan is one of the most influential New Testament scholars of the last fifty years. A historian of early Christianity and co-founder of the Jesus Seminar, Crossan has written extensively on the historical Jesus, the Roman Empire, and the political implications of early Christian theology.

Michael Okinczyc-Cruz is a scholar whose work focuses on empire, power, and the intersection of theology, politics, and economic systems. His research explores how religious ideas function in real historical and social contexts — especially under conditions of domination.

Together, they bring historical rigor and moral clarity to questions that remain deeply relevant today.

John Dominic Crossan

• Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
• https://www.harpercollins.com/products/jesus-a-revolutionary-biography-john-dominic-crossan
• The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant
• https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-historical-jesus-john-dominic-crossan
• God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now
• https://www.harpercollins.com/products/god-and-empire-john-dominic-crossan
• How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian
• https://www.harpercollins.com/products/how-to-read-the-bible-and-still-be-a-christian-john-dominic-crossan

Michael Okinczyc-Cruz

• The Politics of Discipleship (with John Dominic Crossan)
• https://www.fortresspress.com/store/productgroup/553/The-Politics-of-Discipleship

Special Music Provided by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

For all things Deconstructionists go to www.thedeconstructionists.org