In Part 2, the conversation moves from history into consequences.

Andy and Ryan examine how UFO skepticism evolved from scientific caution into something far more strategic. They explore radar interference theories, early claims of recovered craft, and whether figures like Donald Menzel knowingly participated in long-term counterintelligence efforts.

The discussion expands into modern UFO debates, including skepticism versus debunking, the treatment of eyewitness testimony, belief systems, and why the burden of proof in UFO research remains uniquely high.

This episode asks a difficult question: if skepticism was shaped by intelligence needs decades ago, are we still arguing inside rules that were set long before we knew they existed?

Check out Ryan's work - https://unquestionably.substack.com/

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Andy

In this breaking news update, Andy covers a series of major developments shaping the UFO and UAP conversation as 2026 begins.

The episode opens with the surprise appearance of a new book listing from Luis Elizondo. Titled Reckoning: The Unspoken Truth about UFOs and the Urgency of Now, the book has quietly appeared on publisher and retail sites with an expected 2026 release. Andy reads and analyses the full publisher blurb, discusses timing, positioning, and why this release matters coming from a former Pentagon insider.

Attention then turns to David Grusch and his recent high-profile interview on The Megyn Kelly Show. Andy breaks down Grusch’s comments on crash retrievals, legacy programs, misinformation campaigns, deep-state dynamics, and why Grusch appearing publicly now may be significant.

The episode also covers:

Congressional frustration over denied oversight

Claims involving former intelligence leadership

Online tensions within the disclosure community

The CIA’s “neither confirm nor deny” response regarding the interstellar object ‘Oumuamua / Atlas

Reactions from Avi Loeb, ahead of Andy’s upcoming interview with him

Reflections on Chris Bledsoe’s appearance on American Alchemy

Updates on potential upcoming press events and documentaries

A wide-ranging but grounded look at what’s happening, why it matters, and what may come next.

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Andy

You can order my book here - https://geni.us/AtlasOfUFOs

UFO skepticism didn’t begin with social media or YouTube debunkers.

In Part 1 of this conversation, Andy is joined by researcher and writer Ryan Purkey to explore the early life and career of Donald H. Menzel, a Harvard astronomer, naval intelligence officer, and one of the most influential figures in shaping how UFOs would be publicly dismissed.

This episode traces Menzel’s rise through academia, his World War II work in cryptography and radar, and how those skills placed him at the heart of Cold War intelligence at the exact moment UFOs entered the public consciousness.

From early crash recovery timelines to the foundations of organised skepticism, Part 1 sets the historical groundwork for understanding why the UFO topic looks the way it does today.

Check out Ryan's work - https://unquestionably.substack.com/

Patreon offer - https://www.patreon.com/thatufopodcast?coupon=4B0B8

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🛸 YouTube Memberships: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHw9Lru3EcpRQyM7AI5TlmA/join

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🛸 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/that-ufo-podcast/id1511121397

🛸 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wnXUAQ3vwdsX1BoyaEvjZ

🛸 Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/ThatUFOPodcast

📲 Connect with the show:

Twitter: @UFOUAPAM

Facebook, Instagram & YouTube: That UFO Podcast

YouTube: https://youtube.com/c/ThatUFOPodcast

Email: UFOUAPAM@gmail.com

All links: https://linktr.ee/ufouapam

Official Website: https://ThatUFOPodcast.com

👍 Don’t forget to subscribe, like & leave a review, it really helps!

Thanks for listening,

Andy