Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul

Church, State, and the Birth of Liberty

De: John M. Barry

Narrado por: Richard Poe

This is a story of power, set against Puritan America and the English Civil War. Williams's interactions with King James, Francis Bacon, Oliver Cromwell, and his mentor Edward Coke set his course, but his fundamental ideas came to fruition in America, as Williams, though a Puritan, collided with John Winthrop's vision of his "City upon a Hill.

©2012 John M. Barry (P)2012 Recorded Books, LLC

Wonderful! But still boring.

This is a fascinating book full of a lot history that you probably (assuming you took US history in high school) have a vague sense of but don't know much about, like the relationships between Massachusetts and Plymouth in the early colonial period and how the power balance between Indians and Englishmen (and Dutchmen) evolved over this period. In addition, there's a lot about 17th century English history here, including notably about Edward Coke, Williams' mentor, and originator of the phrase "an Englishman's home is his castle."

I'm giving the book 5 stars because I enjoyed it so much, but it needs to be said: it is definitely boring at times. Partly that's because the book takes so much on, including being a definitive biography, which means a lot of detail of Williams's comings and goings, and detailing the various written sources about him especially surviving letters. The book would be deficient if it didn't have all this, but I don't really care to listen to much of it. I think an abridged version would be just fine.

Williams' unique significance of course is that, unlike the New England Puritans who traveled thousands of miles for religious freedom for themselves in order to impose their views on others, Williams genuinely believed that everyone, even non-Christians theists and atheists, should enjoy "liberty of conscience." There may have been others who held this view before him, but Williams was the first to put it into actual practice in real governance in Rhode Island, and somewhat amazingly was able to secure a charter from England that codified this principle. Williams was also a fairly prominent figure willing to express this fairly radical view openly and strongly in books and pamphlets.

The deeper question, which Barry addresses in the afterward, though I wish he'd said more on this point, is just how much effect Williams actually had on modern notions of freedom of religion. Was it Williams who indirectly gave us the first amendment (he was the originator of the phrase "wall of separation between church of state," which Jefferson quoted) by showing the value of this principle, or was he something of a dead end, an expression of an idea that was already in the aether and that was really developed later by Enlightenment thinkers based on secular foundations, while Williams used somewhat pained and tendentious arguments based on scripture, the only tool available in his era? It's difficult to say, though Barry obviously tends to the side of Williams being a genuinely significant figure, having written a biography of the man.

The significance of this question to modern times is obvious. In the debates between Roger Williams and John Winthrop, many have seen the whole story of (religious) freedom in America. For a more fun read in this vein, check out Sarah Vowell's "The Wordy Shipmates," which is what led me to this Williams book. Of course this is a pretty yankee-centric view. But New England is, was, and always will be the real America. The South just messes stuff up every few decades.

An absolute must read

I've always been fascinated by Roger Williams but have found that there is little to read about him. Most history teachers cover him in a single paragraph. After listening to this book I now understand why. The author does and excellent job presenting the brilliance and humility of this man who formed the basis for true freedom of religion and helped lay the foundation of this country's beginning. I recently listened to another lecture on the religious history of the US and that person as well pointed to Roger Williams as the basis for this nation's unique religious liberty laws. Mr Williams knew that it was not the job of civil government to define what the true religion was to be, he knew that is WAS the job of civil government to create the climate where various religions could thrive. The Puritan were all for religious freedom for themselves but if you came afoul of their particular beliefs then the penalty could, and usually was, severe.
Roger Williams was unique in that he recognized that there were obvious errors in the teachings of the various religious groups he saw around him but he also knew that he wasn't called by God to form a new religion. His latter life he was content to withdraw from mainstream religion and instead studied peacefully at his home. He treated the Indians fairly and the way he would like to be treated.
This is well worth the time to listen to.

Excellent!

A seemly exhaustive effort poured into every detail. It stands to reason why the book is 36 chapters. I learned a great deal of what of not only the early struggles of Puritan's but of American history that should be taught in American school's.

Outside my comfort zone but highly recommended

This was a book club choice that I would not have chosen on my own without prompting but John Barry delivered a thought provoking portrait of a man and his times that kept me engaged from the start. Barry reveals Williams as a complex, courageous and principled man and original thinker whose ideas of religious freedom were far ahead of his time. I would definitely listen to John Barry's works again. He has a gift for making somewhat arcane topics highly readable and enlightening. One of my all time favorite non-fiction works is his Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi River Flood of 1927 and How it Changed America. That book marries the hydrology of the Mississippi River with a social history of a region in the grip of one of the most massive natural disasters ever to befall this country before a functional social safety net was in place.

Deep dive into early US religion

This is a well researched work on a period of US history that often gets passed over. Excellent narration.

An important book

If you are interested in American history or are a serious scholar, this book should be read (or listened to). The discussion of church and state is still relevant, inspiring and thought provoking. Roger Williams was truly a “founding father” of our country. I’m surprised how Puritanical American thought is, at it’s core.

The importance of Roger Williams

Roger Williams was a very influential theologian. His ideas concerning the separation of church and state before the American Revolution and the creation of the American Constitution were respected around the world. He appears on the enormous Reformation Wall in Geneva, Switzerland. My own curiosity about him arose after seeing an imposing looking pilgrim on this wall next to Calvin and a great Spanish noble, in one of the most beautiful, calm cities on earth in Switzerland. This is such an important American story!!!

Roger Williams is my new hero

What was one of the most memorable moments of Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul?

What struck me more than anything else in this book was the character of Roger Williams himself. I was fascinated that he is not a much more prominent figure in American history. When I've read about our Founding Fathers, I have often been struck by how far their own ideas and actions were from the fundamental American values we take such pride in today (for example, Jefferson and slavery). The opposite struck me about Williams. He was the first to view Native Americans as equally human, even learned their language, and tried to argue they actually had a legal right to their land - certainly a radical concept in America for hundreds of years after. He argued for full and true religious freedom (on a personal level, not just colony by colony), was the first to argue for what we would recognize as the separation of church and state, and was probably North America's first abolitionist.

What about Richard Poe’s performance did you like?

Absolutely! He was clear and enjoyable to listen to, and I liked that he added a little drama to the voices and quotes without over doing it.

Was this a book you wanted to listen to all in one sitting?

I was tempted to listen to it all at once - especially the second half - and I definitely listened to it for much longer sets of time than I had originally planned. I'll probably listen to chunks of it again, because I want to go back over some of the details.

Expansive and fascinating

Extraordinarily researched across several broad historical themes which are drawn together to tell a fascinating and insightful story.

Stunningly Relevant

This book with engaging clarity covers the history of early New Englands religious intolerance and the development of the freedoms we enjoy and largely take for granted. It lays bare issues of not only historical but of contemporary significance. It should be must reading for every American! I am about to read it AGAIN!