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In this episode, AMEC’s CEO Johna Burke joins host Jason Mudd to discuss the Barcelona Principles 4.0 and PR measurement best practices.

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Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director at the International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication (AMEC). With more than 30 years of experience in marketing, PR, communications, and strategy for B2B and B2C organizations, Johna is a global leader in communication measurement and evaluation and a sought-after speaker on PR, media relations, and metrics.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. The 7 Barcelona Principles Explained

2. How to apply the Barcelona Principles 4.0 to measure and evaluate PR effectiveness across channels

3. How AMEC’s Integrated Evaluation Framework can guide planning, measurement, and reporting in your organization

4. Practical ways to use data ethically to build credibility, trust, and impact in communications

5. How professional development and resources from AMEC can strengthen measurement skills and PR strategy

Quotables

“When we looked at the Barcelona Principles, because they were rooted in best practice, a lot of them are just making them clearer statements.” — Johna Burke

"Supporting the Barcelona Principles, being compliant, helps communicators make a greater value to their organization and gives credibility and reliability to their data." — Johna Burke

“It gives you the planning elements, and it is a fill in the text box for what you are doing, starting with your objective and going through to put your activities, your outputs, the outcome, so that when you use this with your team and you put everything in the framework, it also helps you understand which efforts are paid, earned, shared, and owned.” — Johna Burke

“Use it as the planning tool as much as you use it as a measurement tool, which arguably, if you're doing measurement effectively, you need to have good concrete planning in place to have those well-defined objectives to know and understand what's working and what's not working.” — Johna Burke

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More About Johna Burke

Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director at the International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication (AMEC), has more than 30 years of experience driving results in marketing, public relations, investor relations, general management, communications, strategy, and operations for B2B and B2C organizations. She is an expert in strategic planning, analytics, research, business growth, and operational efficiency and is a national and international speaker on PR, media relations, measurement, social media, and metrics. With over 20 years of focused experience in B2B and B2C marketing and public relations, Johna is recognized globally for her leadership in communication measu

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• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Keller Maloney joins host Jason Mudd to discuss why PR drives AI recommendations and how earned media and brand trust shape how AI models talk about brands.

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Meet Our Guest:
Our episode guest is Keller Maloney, co-founder of Unusual, a platform that helps brands understand and influence how AI models perceive them. Keller has a background in AI interpretability research and works with marketers and PR teams navigating AI as a new audience.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. AI as a new audience: Why PR has to persuade machines, not just humans
2. Why the AI era goes beyond traditional SEO
3. How AI determines and delivers recommendations
4. The two key hurdles brands must overcome for AI visibility
5. PR’s renaissance: Thriving in an AI-driven world

Quotables

“If you give AI models clear claims, real proof, consistent messaging, they reward your brand like a human reviewer would. You can just do what PR folks have always been excellent at doing, which is building a brand.” — Keller Maloney

“The first thing that you need to make sure of when marketing to a customer is awareness. If they don't know you exist, then there's no hope in having them buy your product. The second is specificity, to actually get recommended. When ChatGPT is having a conversation with a specific user about their specific problem, in order for that model to recommend you, they need to know that your product or your solution is the best solution for their user's very specific problem.” — Keller Maloney

“The real key is earned media. It’s like convincing a human. Earned media and a corroboration across trusted sources goes a really long way in helping these models find out about your brand and then determine that you are legitimate enough to consider as a recommendation for their customer.” — Keller Maloney

“Getting more AI recommendations looks a lot more like PR than anything else.” — Keller Maloney

“The things that help an AI model refer to your brand are the same things that help humans refer your brand, which is strong brand presence, earned media trust, and presence across sources.” — Keller Maloney

“The best PR work is helping people, educating people. Steve Jobs is famous for saying, ‘Advertising helps with sales, but good PR educates.’” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More about Keller Maloney
Keller Maloney is the co-founder of Unusual, a platform he built with his co-founder Will to help marketers understand and influence how AI models perceive their brands. Their work takes classic PR principles and applies them to a new audience — artificial intelligence. A Los Angeles native, Keller went to Princeton University, where he earned All-American honors in water polo.

Guest’s contact info and resources:
Keller Maloney on LinkedIn

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Carla Johnson joins host Jason Mudd to discuss how brands can use curiosity to drive innovation and ideation.

Tune in to learn more!

Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Carla Johnson, keynote speaker and Innovative Architect at Think Labs. She’s the author of “RE:Think Innovation” and has helped companies like Amazon, Dell, Intel, and Hilton embrace change and generate stronger ideas.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

How breakthrough ideas form and why you must push past the obvious

How to turn “no” into momentum and a steady flow of stronger ideas

Why curiosity matters

How the “What I Like” and “What I Wish” method improves ideas

How fresh perspectives transform PR and communication

Quotables

“We all like interesting things. We like stories that are clever, that are memorable, and the more memorable you make that story, the easier it is for somebody to share.” — @Carla Johnson

“The beautiful thing about that whole process of coming up with the ideas, sharing the ideas and socializing them, talking about what they could look like, doesn't mean that you'll need that idea right now. But every corporate communicator, PR person, media relations person has needed an amazing idea at a drop of a hat.” — @Carla Johnson

“People come to our profession for answers on how to solve something, or ‘How do I tell the story?’ Or ‘How do I fix this situation?’ But oftentimes, this diabolical need to answer the question really limits the creativity and innovative thinking that we're able to put into it.” — @Carla Johnson

“When we hear about creativity and innovation, the term we always hear is about connecting the dots. And what we don't think about is in order to have dots to connect, we have to collect those dots.” — @Carla Johnson

“If we have unlimited resources, we better be creative and responsible with those resources.” — @Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More About Carla Johnson

Carla Johnson helps organizations break out of conventional ways of thinking. She helps teams think bolder so they can create massive momentum and deliver a bigger impact much faster. She’s the author of 10 books, including the bestseller “RE:Think Innovation.” She’s worked with companies like Amazon, Dell, Intel, and Hilton on embracing change and welcoming new ideas. All of this has helped them transform their businesses, get people excited about the work they do every day, and deliver a level of results they never imagined possible.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

@carlajohnson.co on Instagram

Carla Johnson on Facebook

Carla Johnson on LinkedIn

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.