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In this episode, AMEC’s CEO Johna Burke joins host Jason Mudd to discuss the Barcelona Principles 4.0 and PR measurement best practices.

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Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director at the International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication (AMEC). With more than 30 years of experience in marketing, PR, communications, and strategy for B2B and B2C organizations, Johna is a global leader in communication measurement and evaluation and a sought-after speaker on PR, media relations, and metrics.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. The 7 Barcelona Principles Explained

2. How to apply the Barcelona Principles 4.0 to measure and evaluate PR effectiveness across channels

3. How AMEC’s Integrated Evaluation Framework can guide planning, measurement, and reporting in your organization

4. Practical ways to use data ethically to build credibility, trust, and impact in communications

5. How professional development and resources from AMEC can strengthen measurement skills and PR strategy

Quotables

“When we looked at the Barcelona Principles, because they were rooted in best practice, a lot of them are just making them clearer statements.” — Johna Burke

"Supporting the Barcelona Principles, being compliant, helps communicators make a greater value to their organization and gives credibility and reliability to their data." — Johna Burke

“It gives you the planning elements, and it is a fill in the text box for what you are doing, starting with your objective and going through to put your activities, your outputs, the outcome, so that when you use this with your team and you put everything in the framework, it also helps you understand which efforts are paid, earned, shared, and owned.” — Johna Burke

“Use it as the planning tool as much as you use it as a measurement tool, which arguably, if you're doing measurement effectively, you need to have good concrete planning in place to have those well-defined objectives to know and understand what's working and what's not working.” — Johna Burke

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More About Johna Burke

Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director at the International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication (AMEC), has more than 30 years of experience driving results in marketing, public relations, investor relations, general management, communications, strategy, and operations for B2B and B2C organizations. She is an expert in strategic planning, analytics, research, business growth, and operational efficiency and is a national and international speaker on PR, media relations, measurement, social media, and metrics. With over 20 years of focused experience in B2B and B2C marketing and public relations, Johna is recognized globally for her leadership in communication measu

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• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Keller Maloney joins host Jason Mudd to discuss why PR drives AI recommendations and how earned media and brand trust shape how AI models talk about brands.

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Meet Our Guest:
Our episode guest is Keller Maloney, co-founder of Unusual, a platform that helps brands understand and influence how AI models perceive them. Keller has a background in AI interpretability research and works with marketers and PR teams navigating AI as a new audience.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. AI as a new audience: Why PR has to persuade machines, not just humans
2. Why the AI era goes beyond traditional SEO
3. How AI determines and delivers recommendations
4. The two key hurdles brands must overcome for AI visibility
5. PR’s renaissance: Thriving in an AI-driven world

Quotables

“If you give AI models clear claims, real proof, consistent messaging, they reward your brand like a human reviewer would. You can just do what PR folks have always been excellent at doing, which is building a brand.” — Keller Maloney

“The first thing that you need to make sure of when marketing to a customer is awareness. If they don't know you exist, then there's no hope in having them buy your product. The second is specificity, to actually get recommended. When ChatGPT is having a conversation with a specific user about their specific problem, in order for that model to recommend you, they need to know that your product or your solution is the best solution for their user's very specific problem.” — Keller Maloney

“The real key is earned media. It’s like convincing a human. Earned media and a corroboration across trusted sources goes a really long way in helping these models find out about your brand and then determine that you are legitimate enough to consider as a recommendation for their customer.” — Keller Maloney

“Getting more AI recommendations looks a lot more like PR than anything else.” — Keller Maloney

“The things that help an AI model refer to your brand are the same things that help humans refer your brand, which is strong brand presence, earned media trust, and presence across sources.” — Keller Maloney

“The best PR work is helping people, educating people. Steve Jobs is famous for saying, ‘Advertising helps with sales, but good PR educates.’” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More about Keller Maloney
Keller Maloney is the co-founder of Unusual, a platform he built with his co-founder Will to help marketers understand and influence how AI models perceive their brands. Their work takes classic PR principles and applies them to a new audience — artificial intelligence. A Los Angeles native, Keller went to Princeton University, where he earned All-American honors in water polo.

Guest’s contact info and resources:
Keller Maloney on LinkedIn

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Carla Johnson joins host Jason Mudd to discuss how brands can use curiosity to drive innovation and ideation.

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Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Carla Johnson, keynote speaker and Innovative Architect at Think Labs. She’s the author of “RE:Think Innovation” and has helped companies like Amazon, Dell, Intel, and Hilton embrace change and generate stronger ideas.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

How breakthrough ideas form and why you must push past the obvious

How to turn “no” into momentum and a steady flow of stronger ideas

Why curiosity matters

How the “What I Like” and “What I Wish” method improves ideas

How fresh perspectives transform PR and communication

Quotables

“We all like interesting things. We like stories that are clever, that are memorable, and the more memorable you make that story, the easier it is for somebody to share.” — @Carla Johnson

“The beautiful thing about that whole process of coming up with the ideas, sharing the ideas and socializing them, talking about what they could look like, doesn't mean that you'll need that idea right now. But every corporate communicator, PR person, media relations person has needed an amazing idea at a drop of a hat.” — @Carla Johnson

“People come to our profession for answers on how to solve something, or ‘How do I tell the story?’ Or ‘How do I fix this situation?’ But oftentimes, this diabolical need to answer the question really limits the creativity and innovative thinking that we're able to put into it.” — @Carla Johnson

“When we hear about creativity and innovation, the term we always hear is about connecting the dots. And what we don't think about is in order to have dots to connect, we have to collect those dots.” — @Carla Johnson

“If we have unlimited resources, we better be creative and responsible with those resources.” — @Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More About Carla Johnson

Carla Johnson helps organizations break out of conventional ways of thinking. She helps teams think bolder so they can create massive momentum and deliver a bigger impact much faster. She’s the author of 10 books, including the bestseller “RE:Think Innovation.” She’s worked with companies like Amazon, Dell, Intel, and Hilton on embracing change and welcoming new ideas. All of this has helped them transform their businesses, get people excited about the work they do every day, and deliver a level of results they never imagined possible.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

@carlajohnson.co on Instagram

Carla Johnson on Facebook

Carla Johnson on LinkedIn

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this solocast, On Top of PR host Jason Mudd answers Fernandina Beach High School students’ questions and shares his PR career journey, experiences, and key insights.

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Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. How perseverance helped build Axia into the agency it is today

2. How integrity shaped Jason Mudd’s career, leadership, and long-term reputation

3. Why lifelong learning sets great communicators apart in PR and beyond

4. The value of genuine relationships in public relations, business, and everyday life

5. How setting long-term goals can guide you in owning and running your future business

Quotables

“One thing about the profession of public relations, you’re always getting exposure to new ideas and new information. No two days are the same.” — @jasonmudd

“My primary goal and aspiration for what I do is to have a great reputation of providing both valuable and helpful services that companies benefit from.” — @jasonmudd

“Growing my agency with integrity and having a reputation of giving back so that we can attract the best talent in the profession, as well as attract the best clients and do some of the best work.” — @jasonmudd

“In starting a small business, you've got to do what 99% of the people are unwilling to do themselves. And that's hard by itself.” — @jasonmudd

“Think about everything long-term. So, whatever you’re doing personally, professionally, think long term about it. Will your future self thank you for what you’re doing today?” — @jasonmudd

“Regardless of what profession you pursue, always be learning and improving. So improve your communication skills, both verbally and written. Because at the end of the day, that will apply to any profession you're in.” — @jasonmudd

“Your integrity and reputation are essential to your success in life, in business, but also in your personal life. People want to do business with people they like, know, and trust.” — @jasonmudd

“The greatest compliment for a small business is probably to get a referral. If you know a small business, don't hesitate to leave them an online review or give them a referral because that is the lifeblood of a small business.” — @jasonmudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

Contact info and resources:

Brightway Insurance PR case study

Adecco Group PR case study

Foundation Financial Group PR case study

First Coast Community Bank case st

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Pragya Dubey, Agility PR’s VP of Global Services & Analytics, joins host Jason Mudd to discuss how AI is reshaping PR, media intelligence, and measurement for smarter, data-driven strategies.

Tune in to learn more!

Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Pragya Dubey, Agility PR Solutions’ VP of Global Services & Analytics. With more than 20 years of experience across three continents, she helps organizations transform media data into meaningful insights that demonstrate ROI and elevate the impact of communications.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. How AI is changing the media intelligence landscape and how we can measure it

2. Ways PR professionals can use AI to make smarter, data-driven decisions

3. What the emerging AI landscape means for PR professionals

4. How to use AI to enhance productivity and creativity in PR

5. How press releases are regaining power as vital tools for AI-driven search visibility

Quotables

“AI is really reshaping the way we are accessing information and our need for information.” — Pragya Dubey

“PR teams can be empowered with more data-driven decisions as opposed to basing their decisions on anecdotes, or an impression, or simply instincts – that’s the biggest shift.” — Pragya Dubey

“AI is the assistant that PR never had that can help public relations professionals work smarter.” — Pragya Dubey

"The question to ask is how AI is getting its information. AI is getting that information from the web, from Google, Yahoo, all those aggregator websites and media. So if you're not putting yourself out there more and more, you're missing out on that opportunity to be read and analyzed by AI.” — Pragya Dubey

“The press release that we all thought was on life support and losing credibility year after year is suddenly the new sexy PR tool that everybody's talking about again and getting excited about.” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More About Pragya Dubey

Pragya Dubey is Vice President of Global Services and Media Analytics at Agility PR Solutions, where she leads strategy and client success for media monitoring, measurement, and insights. With over 20 years of experience across Canada, the U.S., and India, she specializes in turning complex media data into actionable narratives that demonstrate ROI and drive smarter decision-making.

Since joining Agility in 2006, she has helped clients — including Fortune 500s, governments, and nonprofits — align media analysis with strategic goals. Pragya is a passionate advocate for using meaningful metrics to elevate the role of communications.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

Pragya Dubey on LinkedIn

Agility PR Solutions website

Additional

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Mark Basch joins host Jason Mudd to discuss the common media mistakes publicly traded companies make.

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Meet our guest:

Our episode guest is Mark Basch, a seasoned business journalist with decades of experience covering publicly traded companies. He provides insights on economics, business trends, manufacturing, real estate, and unemployment, drawing from data releases and press statements.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. Consequences of companies mishandling bad news

2. Best practices for publicly traded companies to work effectively with journalists

3. Why preparation and anticipation are key to effective media interactions

4. Why understanding media evolution is critical for PR

5. The difference between embargoes and advance news, and how to use them strategically

Quotables

“When something is happening, it's a good idea to preemptively get together with the key people and have a response ready because one of the things that could happen in today's world is the story is going to be posted online and nobody is ready to respond.” — Mark Basch

“Clever is great, but it better be accurate.” — Mark Basch

“The headline … is designed to get you to read the story but also should tell you what the story is.” — Mark Basch

“If you want to make this newsworthy, if you want to get media coverage about your company, its success and its growth, we've got to have credible indicators of how quickly you are growing.” — Jason Mudd

“Always prepare, always assume the worst, and have proper preparations.” — Jason Mudd

“Have a plan, but have a plan in case the plan fails of what you're going to do secondarily.” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More about Mark Basch

Mark Basch is a seasoned business journalist who’s covered publicly traded companies for decades. His reporting focuses on economics, business trends, manufacturing, real estate, and unemployment, drawing regularly from data releases and press statements.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

Mark Basch on LinkedIn

Additional resources:

The best and worst media relations efforts from public relations professionals

How to speak with clarity and authority during a crisis

11 crisis management tactics to avoid or prepare for a PR disaster

The 4 R’s of media relat

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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In this episode, Jamie Shibley, CEO of The Expressory joins host Jason Mudd to discuss how to strengthen relationships through thoughtful, strategic corporate gifting.

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Meet Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Jamie Shibley, CEO of The Expressory, a strategic engagement agency helping businesses strengthen relationships through thoughtful, relationship-first strategies. She’s a best-selling author and recognized expert in strategic gifting and relationship marketing, with insights featured on “Entertainment Tonight” and Forbes.com.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. Strategic and themed gift giving for internal and external audiences

2. How to redefine “gifting” beyond presents

3. The three emotional pillars that build strong business relationships

4. Ethical considerations and best practices for corporate gifting programs

5. Why systems and consistency are essential to meaningful engagement

Quotables

“To form a relationship with somebody, that person needs to feel three things. They need to feel that you understand them, they need to feel that you validate what's important in their world, and they need to feel that you care.” — Jamie Shibley

“You recognize that it's not only the people that you already know and have some sort of relationship with. It's about nurturing the ones you want for the long term as well.” — Jamie Shibley

“When your vendor partners feel valued and seen, they will work harder for you.” — Jamie Shibley

“Sometimes a gift is your smarts. Sometimes a gift is just something that's simply helpful to someone so you don't have to spend. The budget does not matter.” — Jamie Shibley

“We would be better off not sending a gift or not sending a note card to somebody if it has something that has a negative unintended consequence or ramifications.” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

More About Jamie Shibley

Jamie Shibley is the CEO of The Expressory, a strategic engagement agency that believes the key to accelerating business growth and profitability in the post-COVID era lies in your ability to maintain personal connections and build emotional loyalty in your relationships. Jamie is the best-selling author of “Relationship-First Strategic Engagement” and is widely respected as a market leader. Her work has been featured on “Entertainment Tonight” and Forbes.com.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

Jamie Shibley on LinkedIn

The Expressory website

“Relationship-First Strategic Engagement” book

Recorded: June 23, 2025

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.

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Our Guest:

Our episode guest is Amy Dunham, chief communications officer at Habitat for Humanity International. Overseeing the organization’s global brand, marketing, and communications strategy, she helps reach audiences across all 50 U.S. states and more than 70 countries. Amy is a seasoned communications leader passionate about using market insights to shape strategy and strengthen engagement worldwide.

Five things you’ll learn from this episode:

1. How to leverage market insights to shape and guide PR strategy

2. The balance of art, science, and passion in effective strategic planning

3. Practical ways communicators can advocate for audiences at the strategy table

4. How messaging and strategy must stay in lockstep to maintain credibility and consistency across audiences

5. How brand perception gaps create opportunities for stronger audience engagement

Quotables

“The human brain always absorbs things best in threes. And communications know if you’ve got 15 priorities, you have no priorities. When setting priorities, it has to be a clear way to say yes and to say no. If it doesn’t give you the ability to say no, then it’s not really helping you set a strategy.” — Amy Dunham

“You can't have good communication or public relations strategy without messaging. They're in lockstep together.” — @JasonMudd9

“To really stand out in PR, whatever you're doing, is to make sure you're saying things that are provocative, contrary, and have a unique point of view from what everybody else is saying because otherwise, you're just going to blend in and not stand out.” — @JasonMudd9

“It's not a conversation about ‘I know better’ versus ‘you know better.’ It's much more about ‘Here's what the data indicates, and now here's the flexibility to be able to use it in the way that works best in your market.’” — Amy Dunham

“It's really through the lens of ‘How can I add value in a way to enable their work?’ rather than to direct how things should get done.” — Amy Dunham

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

About Amy Dunham

Amy leads Habitat for Humanity’s brand, marketing campaigns, and communications efforts across its global footprint in all 50 U.S. states and in more than 70 countries. Before joining Habitat in 2022, she held brand and communications roles at the NCAA, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and US Airways.

Guest’s contact info and resources:

Amy (Kudwa) Dunham on LinkedIn

Habitat for Humanity website

Fact Fullness by Hans Rosling

Crucial Conversations

Additional Resources:

Support the show

• On Top of PR is produced by Axia Public Relations, named by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies. Axia is an expert PR firm for national brands.
• On Top of PR is sponsored by ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews.