-
Murdering Lawyers
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 11 hrs and 27 mins
Add to Cart failed.
Add to Wish List failed.
Remove from wishlist failed.
Adding to library failed
Follow podcast failed
Unfollow podcast failed
Buy for $24.95
No default payment method selected.
We are sorry. We are not allowed to sell this product with the selected payment method
Listeners also enjoyed...
-
Never Far Away
- By: Michael Koryta
- Narrated by: Robert Petkoff
- Length: 11 hrs and 52 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Once a wife, mother, and witness to a gruesome crime, Leah Trenton was extended a miraculous olive branch in the form of the state's protected witness program. But for this second chance at life, Leah would have to leave behind her Midwestern roots to the northernmost tip of Maine. Alone and isolated along the banks of the Allagash River, she is determined to focus on the present, on her reclaimed future, but the demons of her past, are relentlessly chipping away at Leah's protected hideaway.
-
-
Unfinished business
- By Victor @ theAudiobookBlog dot com on 03-10-21
By: Michael Koryta
-
Dead Even
- A Novel
- By: Brad Meltzer
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 14 hrs and 11 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Sara Tate, a Manhattan assistant DA, is on the brink of losing her job. But then she takes a case that may be able to secure her future. Trouble is, it’s much more complicated - and deadly - than it initially appears. While forces within her own office plot against her, an outside threat takes things to another level: Win the case or her attorney husband, Jared, will die. But Jared has received threats, too. Forced to defend the opposition, he learns that, if loses the case, Sara will be killed.
-
-
Audibile is re-releasing old Meltzer novels
- By David Acre on 09-02-21
By: Brad Meltzer
-
Orphan X
- Evan Smoak, Book 1
- By: Gregg Hurwitz
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 11 hrs and 15 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Evan Smoak is a man with skills, resources, and a personal mission to help those with nowhere else to turn. He’s also a man with a dangerous past. Chosen as a child, he was raised and trained as an Orphan, an off-the-books black box program designed to create the perfect deniable intelligence asset: An assassin. Evan was Orphan X - until he broke with the program and used everything he learned to disappear. But now someone is on his tail.
-
-
It was good
- By Sarina Chopra on 03-27-16
By: Gregg Hurwitz
-
Deep Threat
- Billy Beckett, Book 1
- By: Scott Pratt, Kelly Hodge
- Narrated by: Tim Campbell
- Length: 5 hrs and 46 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Jarvis Thompson, the most celebrated wide receiver in college football, vanishes along the Tennessee River in the middle of the night. The circumstances surrounding the receiver’s disappearance are ominous: drugs, cash, and his mentor’s brother lying in a pool of blood.
-
-
Loved it
- By Pearl on 05-03-19
By: Scott Pratt, and others
-
The Ambition
- A Novel
- By: Lee Strobel
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 8 hrs and 28 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
A corrupt judge in a mob murder case. A disillusioned pastor, hungry for power. A cynical reporter, sniffing for a scandal. A gambling addict whose secret tape threatens the lives of everyone who hears it. New York Times best-selling author, Lee Strobel, weaves these edgy characters into an intricate thriller set in a gleaming, suburban megachurch, a big-city newspaper struggling for survival, and the shadowy corridors of political intrigue.
-
-
Quite surprised
- By JCM on 02-10-12
By: Lee Strobel
-
The Innocent
- By: Harlan Coben
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 13 hrs and 28 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Some mistakes can change your life forever. For Matt Hunter, that mistake came in one terrible moment when his attempt to help a friend and stop a fight resulted in an accidental death. Matt was convicted of manslaughter and sent to prison. Time that his peers spent in college, Matt endured behind bars.
-
-
Coben and Brick....How could you not listen?!!
- By Bethany on 05-06-05
By: Harlan Coben
-
Never Far Away
- By: Michael Koryta
- Narrated by: Robert Petkoff
- Length: 11 hrs and 52 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Once a wife, mother, and witness to a gruesome crime, Leah Trenton was extended a miraculous olive branch in the form of the state's protected witness program. But for this second chance at life, Leah would have to leave behind her Midwestern roots to the northernmost tip of Maine. Alone and isolated along the banks of the Allagash River, she is determined to focus on the present, on her reclaimed future, but the demons of her past, are relentlessly chipping away at Leah's protected hideaway.
-
-
Unfinished business
- By Victor @ theAudiobookBlog dot com on 03-10-21
By: Michael Koryta
-
Dead Even
- A Novel
- By: Brad Meltzer
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 14 hrs and 11 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Sara Tate, a Manhattan assistant DA, is on the brink of losing her job. But then she takes a case that may be able to secure her future. Trouble is, it’s much more complicated - and deadly - than it initially appears. While forces within her own office plot against her, an outside threat takes things to another level: Win the case or her attorney husband, Jared, will die. But Jared has received threats, too. Forced to defend the opposition, he learns that, if loses the case, Sara will be killed.
-
-
Audibile is re-releasing old Meltzer novels
- By David Acre on 09-02-21
By: Brad Meltzer
-
Orphan X
- Evan Smoak, Book 1
- By: Gregg Hurwitz
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 11 hrs and 15 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Evan Smoak is a man with skills, resources, and a personal mission to help those with nowhere else to turn. He’s also a man with a dangerous past. Chosen as a child, he was raised and trained as an Orphan, an off-the-books black box program designed to create the perfect deniable intelligence asset: An assassin. Evan was Orphan X - until he broke with the program and used everything he learned to disappear. But now someone is on his tail.
-
-
It was good
- By Sarina Chopra on 03-27-16
By: Gregg Hurwitz
-
Deep Threat
- Billy Beckett, Book 1
- By: Scott Pratt, Kelly Hodge
- Narrated by: Tim Campbell
- Length: 5 hrs and 46 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Jarvis Thompson, the most celebrated wide receiver in college football, vanishes along the Tennessee River in the middle of the night. The circumstances surrounding the receiver’s disappearance are ominous: drugs, cash, and his mentor’s brother lying in a pool of blood.
-
-
Loved it
- By Pearl on 05-03-19
By: Scott Pratt, and others
-
The Ambition
- A Novel
- By: Lee Strobel
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 8 hrs and 28 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
A corrupt judge in a mob murder case. A disillusioned pastor, hungry for power. A cynical reporter, sniffing for a scandal. A gambling addict whose secret tape threatens the lives of everyone who hears it. New York Times best-selling author, Lee Strobel, weaves these edgy characters into an intricate thriller set in a gleaming, suburban megachurch, a big-city newspaper struggling for survival, and the shadowy corridors of political intrigue.
-
-
Quite surprised
- By JCM on 02-10-12
By: Lee Strobel
-
The Innocent
- By: Harlan Coben
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 13 hrs and 28 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Some mistakes can change your life forever. For Matt Hunter, that mistake came in one terrible moment when his attempt to help a friend and stop a fight resulted in an accidental death. Matt was convicted of manslaughter and sent to prison. Time that his peers spent in college, Matt endured behind bars.
-
-
Coben and Brick....How could you not listen?!!
- By Bethany on 05-06-05
By: Harlan Coben
-
Becoming Quinn
- Jonathan Quinn Series Prequel
- By: Brett Battles
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 6 hrs and 21 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Meet Jake Oliver. The day will come when he's one of the best cleaners in the business, a man skilled at making bodies disappear. At the moment, however, he's a 22 year old rookie cop, unaware his life is about to change. In a burning barn a body is found--and the fire isn't the cause of death. The detectives working the case have a pretty good idea about what went down. But Officer Oliver thinks it's something else entirely, and pursues a truth others would prefer remain hidden - others who will go to extreme lengths to keep him quiet.
-
-
Battles and Brick - a great combination
- By AudioAddict on 04-24-14
By: Brett Battles
-
Night Man
- The Night Man Chronicles, Book 1
- By: Brett Battles
- Narrated by: Zach Villa
- Length: 8 hrs and 9 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Nate doesn’t want to listen. He’s between missions and just wants to relax, not to travel hundreds of miles and hunt for the driver of the car that hit someone he doesn’t even know. But ignoring the call is not an option. What Nate had hoped would be a simple mission turns into something much more sinister, when he discovers a wide-reaching evil, festering in a small Northern California town. To confront it, he will need all the skills he’s learned working in the shadow world.
-
-
Fake Man!
- By Brian Jones on 07-26-19
By: Brett Battles
-
The Wreck
- By: Landon Beach
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 7 hrs and 9 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Nate and Brooke Martin arrive at their summer cottage along the rapidly gentrifying Great Lakes shoreline. On a morning stroll along the beach, Nate finds an unusual gold coin half-buried in the sand. Where did it come from? Teaming up with reclusive ex-Coast Guard officer and Great Lakes master of the deep Abner Hutch, Nate dives for clues to the treasure's origins. But when word leaks that there may be a fortune hidden under the waves, they find themselves hunted by mega-rich residents up the coast who are willing to do anything to advance their extravagant lifestyles.
-
-
Scott Brick makes this book shine!
- By shelley on 02-27-20
By: Landon Beach
-
The Tenth Justice
- A Novel
- By: Brad Meltzer
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 14 hrs and 17 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Landing a prestigious position as a Supreme Court clerk fresh out of Yale Law, Ben Addison is on the ultrafast track to success - until he inadvertently shares a classified secret with the wrong listener. And now the anonymous blackmailer who made a killing with Ben’s information is demanding more. Guilty of a criminal act, his golden future suddenly in jeopardy, Ben turns for help to his roommates - three close friends from childhood, each strategically placed near the seats of Washington power - and to his beautiful, whip-smart fellow clerk, Lisa Schulman.
-
-
Re-release
- By Frances on 07-21-21
By: Brad Meltzer
-
The Hunted
- By: Brian Haig
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 18 hrs and 12 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In 1987, Alex Konevitch was thrown out of Moscow University for "indulging his entrepreneurial spirit." But by 1991, he was worth $300 million. On track to become Russia's wealthiest man, he makes one critical mistake: he hires the former deputy director of the KGB to handle his corporate security. And then his world begins to fall apart.
-
-
Superb
- By F. Hayek on 09-03-09
By: Brian Haig
-
Hush
- By: James Patterson, Candice Fox
- Narrated by: Kathryn Hartman
- Length: 8 hrs and 7 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Prison is a dangerous place for a former cop - as Harriet Blue is learning on a daily basis. So, following a fight for her life and a prison-wide lockdown, the last person she wants to see is Deputy Police Commissioner Joe Woods. The man who put her inside. But Woods is not there to gloat. His daughter Tonya and her two-year-old child have gone missing. He's ready to offer Harriet a deal: find his family to buy her freedom....
-
-
Narration is terrible
- By Mark A on 06-03-20
By: James Patterson, and others
-
Play Dead
- By: Harlan Coben
- Narrated by: Scott Brick
- Length: 17 hrs and 17 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Theirs was a marriage made in tabloid heaven, but no sooner had supermodel Laura Ayars and Celtics star David Baskin said “I do” than tragedy struck. While honeymooning on Australia’s Great Barrier Reef, David went out for a swim - and never returned. Now widowed and grieving, Laura has a thousand questions and no answers. Her search for the truth will draw her into a web of lies and deception that stretches back thirty years - while on the court at the Boston Garden, a rookie phenom makes his spectacular debut....
-
-
Harlan Coben is the Master
- By Philip on 10-01-10
By: Harlan Coben
-
The Institute
- A Novel
- By: Stephen King
- Narrated by: Santino Fontana
- Length: 18 hrs and 59 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In the middle of the night, in a house on a quiet street in suburban Minneapolis, intruders silently murder Luke Ellis' parents and load him into a black SUV. The operation takes less than two minutes. Luke will wake up at The Institute, in a room that looks just like his own, except there's no window. And outside his door are other doors, behind which are other kids with special talents - telekinesis and telepathy - who got to this place the same way Luke did: Kalisha, Nick, George, Iris, and 10-year-old Avery Dixon.
-
-
Not number one, but still a really good read!
- By Julie Mo on 11-29-19
By: Stephen King
-
The Outsider
- By: Stephen King
- Narrated by: Will Patton
- Length: 18 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
An 11-year-old boy's violated corpse is found in a town park. Eyewitnesses and fingerprints point unmistakably to one of Flint City's most popular citizens. He is Terry Maitland, Little League coach, English teacher, husband, and father of two girls. Detective Ralph Anderson, whose son Maitland once coached, orders a quick and very public arrest. Maitland has an alibi, but Anderson and the district attorney soon add DNA evidence to go with the fingerprints and witnesses. Their case seems ironclad.
-
-
King still wears the crown!
- By Duncan Watkins on 03-11-20
By: Stephen King
-
The Summer House
- By: James Patterson, Brendan DuBois
- Narrated by: Ari Fliakos
- Length: 10 hrs and 19 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Once a luxurious Southern getaway on a rustic lake, then reduced to a dilapidated crash pad, the Summer House is now the grisly scene of a nighttime mass murder. Eyewitnesses point to four Army Rangers - known as the Night Ninjas - recently returned from Afghanistan. To ensure that justice is done, the Army sends Major Jeremiah Cook, a veteran and former NYPD cop, to investigate. But the major and his elite team arrive in sweltering Georgia with no idea their grim jobs will be made exponentially more challenging by local law enforcement....
-
-
Not as good as expected by hype.
- By Anonymous User on 06-16-20
By: James Patterson, and others
-
Pretend You Don't See Her
- By: Mary Higgins Clark
- Narrated by: Cecelia Riddett
- Length: 8 hrs and 16 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Mary Higgins Clark sends chills down listeners' spines with the story of Lacey Farrell, a rising star on the Manhattan real estate scene. One day, while showing a luxurious skyline co-op, Lacey is witness to a murder - and to the dying words of the victim.... The dying woman is convinced that the attacker was after her dead daughter's journal - which Lacey gives to the police, but not before making a copy for herself. It's an impulse that later proves nearly fatal.
-
-
Nix the narrator - good story
- By JCM on 02-02-13
-
Local Woman Missing
- By: Mary Kubica
- Narrated by: Brittany Pressley, Jennifer Jill Araya, Gary Tiedemann, and others
- Length: 11 hrs and 40 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Shelby Tebow is the first to go missing. Not long after, Meredith Dickey and her six-year-old daughter, Delilah, vanish just blocks away from where Shelby was last seen, striking fear into their once-peaceful community. Are these incidents connected? After an elusive search that yields more questions than answers, the case eventually goes cold. Now, 11 years later, Delilah shockingly returns. Everyone wants to know what happened to her, but no one is prepared for what they'll find....
-
-
Best Kubica yet!!!
- By LA book lover on 05-18-21
By: Mary Kubica
Publisher's Summary
In the novel Murdering Lawyers you will find Marc Wilson, a jobless young attorney, once idealistic but now willing to bend a few rules to help his career. After a few minutes of dishonesty begin paying shocking dividends, he becomes a litigator at a prestigious international law firm, finds himself living in a luxury apartment, and enters into a romantic relationship with the boss' daughter - but not without paying a heavy price.
Soon he is caught up with an ancient cabal committed to bringing the most unspeakable evil into the world, and he must find a way to defeat these forces or face the death of everything he loves.
Warning - Before you purchase this book please be aware that Murdering Lawyers is an extremely controversial mystery suspense thriller. The book contains graphic language, violence, and sexual content which is critical to the plot.
Critic Reviews
More from the same
What listeners say about Murdering Lawyers
Average Customer RatingsReviews - Please select the tabs below to change the source of reviews.
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- JenniferLOVESThrillers
- 03-24-17
Devils Advocate Meets a Nice Boy from Brooklyn
I don't think I would have selected this book based on the description because I am not usually attracted to legal thrillers. What had me at "hello" was my favorite narrator, Scott Brick. He could read me the dictionary and I would be captivated. Beyond that, the book sounded dicey so I gave it a try. The story grabbed me right from the beginning and I was hooked all the way to to the end.
This was my first time listening to a Larry Fine book and it won't be my last. Too often, I listen to authors that play it safe and this one did the opposite which was so refreshing! There is a little bit of the occult and a smidge of fantasy mixed into a great thril ride! The book was less of a legal thriller and more of a suspense horror with intense and graphic sexual violence which adds depth to the plot and delivers characters you will route for and others you will love to hate. Here is how I break it out:
Suspense/Psychological: 70%
Horror: 20%
Romance: 5%
Legal thriller: 5%
The story feels slightly like the movie, "the devil''s advocate" although that's just at the surface level. The story itself is unique and read by the best narrator in the business, Scott Brick. Bottomline, you can't go wrong choosing this story.
I was voluntarily provided this free review copy audiobook by the author, narrator, or publisher.
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Vickie
- 03-21-17
Not what I was expecting, but oh so much more!!!
This is a well written book that is expertly narrated by Scott Brick Someone is killing the lawyers in new York city. This book has everything that you could want in a book it has romance, action and adventure, murder mystery, and devil worshiping lawyers. Highly recommend this book. Was voluntarily provided this review copy by the author, publisher or narrator
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Jan M
- 03-10-17
Unexpected Twists
Larry Fine is an author whom is new to me. Scott Brick has been a favorite narrator of mine since I've listened to him perform other books. I really thought this book was well written, but some of the subject matter was taboo to me and that was why I did not give it the full 5 star rating for the story. I love a mystery with unexpected twists, but this one stunned me. I do not like giving away spoilers in reviews, but some people might not like part of the subject. This story is totally original and not like anything I have ever read or listened to before. I was voluntarily provided with this review copy audiobook at no charge by the author, narrator, and/or publisher.
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Paula
- 04-12-17
Scott Brick makes every story better.
This reminds me of a Brett Battle's book. A lawyer who is running for his life and Brick's narration let's you feel the danger,, disgust, and triumphs. I look for books narrated by Brick because no one can drag you into the story like he does. Larry Fine did great work unfolding the plot.
2 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Alex Elman Foley
- 02-23-17
Addictive...I stayed up until 4am reading!!!
This was a addicting, thrilling and a true nail destroyer!!! The story was gripping, intriguing and kept me guessing. Scott Brick, one of my favorite narrators enhanced the heart pounding suspence..I have picked my cuticles off! I can't wait to read Larry Fine's next thriller!!!
4 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Larry Simpson
- 01-19-19
Painful
Kept hoping it would get better. Gave up on chapter 15. If you like slow dark descent into hell, you might like it.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
- June Sutej
- 07-16-17
Murdering Lawyers
Lousy book. Did not get to chapter 4. Didn't like it at all. No thanks.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Robert Rhodes
- 04-09-17
Lawyers are supposed to protect us, Right?
Marc Wilson is a jobless young attorney, once idealistic but now willing to bend a few rules to help his career. What seemed like a such a small infraction as a way to get Marc into the Lawyer's Ethics Committee, opened his path into the shadowy side of the of the committee.
He begins to realize the Committee is more than what it seems. As an ancient secret society made up of powerful judges and lawyers focused on the powers of Satanism the committee begin to challenge everything Marc thought he knew and draw into a web that he might not escape from.
A good story and well worth the listen and always Scott Brick makes it all come to thrilling life.
I was voluntarily provided this free review copy audiobook by the author, narrator, or publisher.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- SpiegMan
- 03-15-17
NC-17 and pretty good
Let's get the Performance rated since that is easiest - Brick is very good, he makes good books very good, bad books tolerable. In fact, without him reading I probably would not have chosen it.
There are some disturbing events that occur between both consenting adults and not, some with children so be warned but it was not over-the-top graphic(with the kids) and was needed to demonstrate the level of evil of the antagonists.
The main character, Mark, was quite a dichotomy. He seemed dense, plain and naive but then he was brave, skilled and intelligent at other times making it difficult to get a read on him as a likable character.
There were some twists and it took a little while for the narrative to gain momentum. There were a couple times I almost turned it off within the first 2 hours but it definitely built momentum as it progressed so if you like suspenseful stories with a strong evil cult influence, and can tolerate the NC-17 then stick with it. The Legal aspect takes a backseat in the story about half of the time.
There is a bit of 'Devils Advocate' in this story, the Pacino-Reeves movie but just a little. Overall, I enjoyed the story, just would have liked more of a definitive protagonist so I could 'get' him. Lastly, cover art could have been better so just as with the choice of Performer, the cover art plays a role in peoples choices.
I was voluntarily provided this audio-book by the author, narrator, or publisher for an unbiased review
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- CILLY STURMBERG
- 03-26-17
SATANISM--YECH!
THE GREAT PERFORMANCE BY SCOTT BRICK CANNOT SAVE THIS BOOK WITH ITS SILLY PLOT.IF I HAD HAD AN INKLING BEFOREHAND THAT THE STORY IS HINGED ON SATANISM AND STUPID RITES I WOULD NEVER HAVE CONSIDERED BUYING THIS BOOK.STOPPED LISTENING AFTER ABOUT TWO HOURS.
2 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Norma Miles
- 03-24-17
"As if by magic..."
Any additional comments?
With such a wonderful title and Scott Brick narrating, despite the horrible cover I was anticipating a really excellent book. And the early chapters did not disappoint. The story promised to be intriguing, exciting and with unexpected happenings. Sadly, though, it slowly morphed into the ridiculous. The violence, sex, murder and mayhem didn't phase me, it was the silliness of the scenes invoked in my head that had me laughing rather than being shocked at the anticipated horror. A case, I fear, of too much shown where a little more mystery would have achieved what excess could not. Think of the Masons! And the idea of our wimpy main protagonist winning out against all the odds and of the father-daughter relationship as given: I'm sorry, it was just plain daft. Perhaps it's because I'm British ...
Despite the (mostly) predictability of it all, I istened to the very last word. Why? Scott Brick, of course. He could make reading a government document stunning and realistic. His deliciously warm voice echoed the emotions of the text without breaking into guffaws of laughter, all beautifully modulated, and with individually distinctive character dialogue. And, of course, he became Mark Wilson, the foolish but nice lawyer hoping to succeed, who is recounting his story. By his narration, Brick turned the, frankly, risible into high drama.
Did I enjoy the book? Well, yes, it was fun, like a comic book, with dastardly villains and nowhere to hide. But it could have been so much better, a real chiller, had the author tried a little less hard to shock and been slightly more original with some of the nasties that were revealed. My thanks to the rights holder for gifting me my copy of Murdering Lawyers, via Audiobook Boom. I notice that the ending leaves just enough ambiguity to suggest a sequel. Now that could be interesting ...