Kill All Normies

Online Culture Wars from 4Chan and Tumblr to Trump and the Alt-Right

By: Angela Nagle

Narrated by: Mary Sarah

Length: 4 hrs and 5 mins

Publisher's Summary

Recent years have seen a revival of the heated culture wars of the 1990s, but this time its battleground is the Internet. On one side the alt-right ranges from the once obscure neo-reactionary and white separatist movements, to geeky subcultures like 4chan, to more mainstream manifestations such as the Trump-supporting gay libertarian Milo Yiannopolous.

On the other side, a culture of struggle sessions and virtue signaling lurks behind a therapeutic language of trigger warnings and safe spaces. The feminist side of the online culture wars has its equally geeky subcultures right through to its mainstream expression.

Kill All Normies explores some of the cultural genealogies and past parallels of these styles and subcultures, drawing from transgressive styles of 60s libertinism and conservative movements, to make the case for a rejection of the perpetual cultural turn.

©2017 Angela Nagle (P)2017 Tantor

Some false equivalences, but otherwise great analysis

It comes off as trying to say the sensitive tumblr crowd is somehow the left’s alt-right, but it’s hard to compare people who just get butthurt easy to those who lionize a mass shooter and are openly Nazi in a lot of cases. Also it seems like the author doesn’t think TERFs are a thing, but it only takes about 10 minutes on twitter to see that they are and they’re active. Lastly, anarchists aren’t progressives. They’re in their own category. Berkeley riots had nothing to do with progressivism. Progressives are too scared to actually meet anyone in the streets lol

Nuanced and Even-handed, But Still Lacking

A well written and surprisingly deep summary of the culture wars' evolution over the last 20 years. Still, I can't help but feel like the author misses the point at times.

The look into the Right's even harder right-turn was interesting and, from an outsider's perspective, very accurate. But the inaccuracies and distorted presentations of some (certainly not all) of the Left's counter culture participants makes me question how well she represents the Right as well.

Like others, I was startled to hear the author seemingly gloss over the existence of TERFs, which have been active in feminism since the Second Wave and are not by any means a myth or minor issue. Germaine Greer, mentioned by name and a pioneer of the Second Wave, is a notorious anti-trans bigot whose hateful language is readily accessible to anyone with a computer, and the author's dismissal of her criticizers as somehow reactionary or frivolous is baffling, not to mention the implication that the liberal community criticizes her for views she held 20 or 30 years ago - Greer's most recent (honestly, really vile) comments against the idea of trans women being women were made in 2018! Yet the book suggests that to label her a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist is to hurl invective or insults without merit. To be entirely honest, it makes me wonder what the author's own views on transgenderism are, and whether they color her perspective on the validity of the Left's position.

The book raises several issues vital to the survival of the Left as a political ideology, which I do not dispute. Fascism is indeed in the rise among both the Left and Right, and it's important to the future of humanity as a whole to fight fascism wherever it spreads. However, the book also draws a common false equivalency, suggesting that neo-nazis and anti-fascists (people who are invested in preventing neo-nazism from spreading) are somehow two sides of the same coin. Also, to my point above, I would argue TERFs and other exclusionary/separatist leftists are the main problem we on the Left should be fighting, not college students refusing to listen to Milo Yannopolis. Censorship is an important issue, but so is contributing to a culture where Trans women are murdered with such regularity that there is an annual day set aside to remember them.

All in all, I think this was a valuable read, but one to be considered with a very critical eye.

That's it?

There is so much more to this. there was no mention of the mass uncoordinated spontaneous and organic movements from exposing Scientology, the reaction to woke celebrities such as the he will not divide us campaign, memeing Donald trump into the presidency, shutting down corporations websites with DDOS attacks, invading childrens online games and spreading hate with memes, to purity motivated trackdowns of rapists, murderers, and animal abusers. This phenomenon, known as "weaponized autism" and its application to mass movement goals is completely absent.

Best book I’ve read this year!!!

A fantastic but harrowing overview of the shitty ways the online cultures that are basically the reason I don’t go on social media any more have shaped the divide we have today.

not good and often wrong

Cleary written by someone adhering to to doctrine of centrism or stuck in the smug self satisfaction of pointing out to flaws on both sides. Ignoring the entire history of the far right and proclaiming Tumblr as the 4chan of the left. This book is riddled with unjustified opinions and factual errors. Of course it's all expressed as though it's plain and obvious. When compared to other books trying to explain the rise of the alt right and the current culture wars this book is on the low end of rigor and quality. I'm annoyed that I used one of my audible credits on this trite, self congratulatory waste of time.

Clueless

The author is at best half right on the subject matter. I think if you want to understand 4Chan, Kek, Alt-Right, etc. Check out Tim Pool, Jordon Peterson, Big Man Tyrone, Milo, etc. Nagle's analysis is bad intel.

Weak understanding of internet culture.

Gabriella Coleman's book is a reference on anonymous. This book lacks a basic understanding of internet culture.
The non-internet based arguments are okay-ish.

distribution, eye-opening

This book illuminates the giant bottomless pit of online horror on the Left and Right

I as a leftist admire this criticism of leftism

A great and rigorous analysis of current trends, an intellectually honest critique of the identetarian segments of the modern left. Truly worth your time.

Should have gone more in depth

There are a lot of good, interesting points here, but I don't feel like the author researched the topics deeply enough. It's well-written. The narration is decent. The author made am attempt and displaying "both sides" of the issue. But Angela doesn't understand a lot of what she's talking about. And she definitely misrepresented Fight Club 😅

Worst narration ever

I’m only 30mins in but I might have to give the book back for refund.
It’s the worst narration I’ve ever heard.
It’s clear that she’s never seen the script before reading it aloud and it’s actually following it.
She stumbles over words, has strange intonation, stresses words in a way that runs counter to the sense of what she’s reading, mispronounces words and there are bits where you can hear that she’s had to record that individual word again because she is struggling with it.

As a result it’s incredibly hard to follow the thrust of the book as the author intended.

It’s SHOCKINGLY bad and very jarring.

Excellent summary

A well researched and enjoyably presented look into the sources of the alt right. Looking forward to listening through a second time to pick up on things that I might have missed first time around.

Objective, scholarly, accessible

In my opinion this book provides the serious and lucid analysis which this subject had been missing. Not a hysterical diatribe or ideological polemic but a thoughtful reaction with scrupulous regard for the facts. Thought provoking

An antidote to political schism

An attempt to crawl from the depressing sludge which is consuming us all. A book to be cited.

Very interesting

Found this a fascinating insight into an area I don't really understand and feel I can no longer ignore.
Also narrator's style and cadence really suited the content.

Not especially persuasive.

The core thesis is that something about certain online spaces creates a particular kind of radicalisation, and intellectual atrophy. This argent is built on a history of tumblr and the chans. My problem is mostly methodological. We're given this history, and an interpretation of it in terms of the 'decay of the left' chat the author finds plausible, but no independent grounds to buy that frame. That frame, being the interesting and controversial part, and so the thing that in need of an interesting argument.

I owe you big time

I owe Angela Nagle big time for this book. Her book proved as vital research for me and I can’t thank her enough! Excellent insight into recent internet history and how it impacts greater politics.

must read for veterans of the culture wars

I've spent basically my whole life online, and have seen the events that this book describes first hand. The author takes these formative experiences, and explains and justifies them as part of a wider narrative of cultural change. Thee internet isn't stupid or niche anymore, it's the central landscape that our debates take place on, and it is incredibly refreshing to see a philosopher take this seriously. Yes, the discussions of memes and drama might seem stupid. But this is the reality of the cultural landscape the western world lives within, and it's refreshing to see someone take the irony seriously for once.

Great stuff

The narrator was grand, don't know what the other reviewers are on about there. As for the author, Nagle is one of the best thinkers around, she absolutely nailed this. Hope she's got more books coming

a bit repetitive at times but very interesting.

i found this book somewhat repetitive and disorganized but it introduces a lot of sobering knowledge into the world of the alt right.