In 1986, when Kristine S. Ervin was eight years old, her mother was abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered in Oklahoma. Decades later, Kristine tells her story in Rabbit Heart - A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Story, a memoir weaves together her fragmented childhood memories, growing up with grief, and then as an adult, reckoning with the painful details of her mother's death. The course of the book shifts when there is a break in the cold case of her mother's murder, leading to a trial and eventual conviction of Kyle Eckhart, one of the men responsible.

In this conversation Kristine reflects on what it means to grieve for her mother and for the violent way she died. She explores the power of imagination in grief, the struggle of piecing together memories shaped by others, and how writing became both an outlet and a way to preserve a connection to her mother.

Together, Jana and Kristine talk about:

• What she remembers about her mother and which of those memories are shaped by what others remember.
• How Kristine reacted to media portrayals of her mother's life and death.
• What she remembers about learning her mother was abducted and then the day she found out she was murdered.
• What it was like to grow up not knowing who killed her mother.
• The story behind the title of her memoir, Rabbit Heart.
• The role of imagination and fantasy in both childhood and adult grief.
• The emotional impact of learning new, violent details about her mother's death, and how this knowledge changed Kristine's relationship with her grief over time.
• How the publication of Rabbit Heart allowed her to connect with her mother's memory in a new way.

Content note: this episode includes details of violence, sexual assault, and murder, along with some adult language. Please listen with care.

Kristine Ervin grew up in a small suburb of Oklahoma City and is now an associate professor at West Chester University, outside Philadelphia. She holds an MFA in Poetry from New York University and a Ph.D. in Creative Writing and Literature, with a focus in nonfiction, from the University of Houston. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in Fourth Genre, Crimereads, Crab Orchard Review, Brevity, Passages North, and Silk Road. Her essay "Cleaving To," was named a notable essay in the Best American Essays 2013. Kristine's debut memoir Rabbit Heart is currently available from Counterpoint Press.

When someone dies, the story is often one of sadness, longing, and loss. But what happens when the person who died was also someone who caused great harm? For Kathy, who was sexually and emotionally abused by her father, his death when she was 11 brought more relief than grief.

In this conversation, Kathy shares how her early experiences with grief and trauma shaped her path as a social worker and volunteer, including her current work with teens and tweens who are grieving.

We explore:

• What it was like to have her dad die while carrying the painful secret about his abuse
• The mixed emotions of grieving someone who caused great harm
• How volunteering gave Kathy a sense of purpose and visibility at a young age
• The importance of creating space for young people - and adults - to share the full range of feelings about the person who died, including the hard and complicated ones
• What Kathy would want her 11-year-old self, and other kids in similar situations, to know

Kathy’s story broadens our understanding of grief, reminding us that it’s never one-dimensional, and that sometimes, relief outweighs grief.

Note: this episode includes references to childhood sexual and emotional abuse.