7 Years, One Big Rebrand, and Everything We Know Now: An Honest Anniversary Conversation

Have we ever thought about quitting the podcast? What did we think when we were starting Dear White Women seven years ago? Why did we rebrand the show to What Do You Mean By That? What do we want the next chapter of this show to feel like?

Those are all questions that we're asking each other as we celebrate SEVEN YEARS of this podcast, and many more as well. Listen in to find out what we really think about the work that we're doing, where we see the podcast going, and things that we thought about (or didn't) when we first started this seven years ago. We'd love to hear more about what you might want to hear as well - please email us at hello@whatdoyoumeanbythat.com with any show ideas!

What to listen for:

• What else Misasha wants to quit

• Which one of us doesn't listen to podcasts

• Reflecting on how we were formerly the Dear White Women podcast, and now we're What Do You Mean By That?

Going forward, we'd love to talk more about community activism, big picture questions, and the science / actions we can take to feel happier. What conversations do you want us to have? Just email us at hello@whatdoyoumeanbythat.com with your ideas!

Sara. Misasha. Megumi. All three of us are the daughter of one Japanese parent and one White parent each. All three of us had dual citizenship with the United States and Japan at one point. But the trajectories of our citizenship are distinctly different, and only one of us holds a Japanese passport now. Are we all still Japanese?

Today, we speak with Megumi Nishikura, a documentary filmmaker who focuses on stories not often told in our history books, despite their themes impacting so many of us, Japanese or not.

We explore belonging, identity, citizenship, and what history teaches us about where we are now - and the stories we want to carry forward with us.

If you've ever wondered if you've belonged, or if you've ever been told you're not ____ enough, we hope you listen, and join our conversation.

What to listen for:

• The small things people - sometimes unintentionally - say that make others feel like they don't belong.

• What it's like to live in the grey zone between the law and reality when it comes to citizenship and membership in communities. One word: anxiety.

• How observed demographic changes don't necessarily mean that lived experiences change too much…yet.

About Our Guest:

Megumi Nishikura is a documentary filmmaker whose work explores identity, belonging, and the cultural intersections between Japan and the world. Her feature documentary film "Hafu - the mixed race experience" screened theatrically throughout Japan and aired on PBS and NipponTV. She produced "Fall Seven Times, Get Up Eight: The Japanese War Brides," which aired globally on BBC World News. In 2019, Megumi directed and produced "Minidoka," a short film about the Japanese American internment experience during WWII, which was published by TIME magazine. She is currently making a film about Japan's Nationality Law and the dual citizenship issue in Japan. When she's not making her own films, Megumi works as a producer on docuseries for major streaming platforms.

A few photos from HAFU and her latest film:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JK8VEHfq9dhog5ZSindMVccurZQXcYDj

Trailer links:

Hafu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_wQQZY-OE&t=1s

War Brides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0cpMPmMeU

Minidoka - https://vimeo.com/384081882?fl=pl&fe=sh

What if the very programs designed to make workplaces fairer are actually making the problem worse?

In this episode, we begin with the famous "Cobra Effect"—a colonial-era policy that unintentionally increased the problem it was meant to solve—and explore how the same dynamic shows up in modern diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts.

Our guest, Lily Zhang, argues that many corporate DEI initiatives fail not because the goals are wrong, but because the strategies are. Drawing on decades of research, Lily breaks down why performative programs, surface-level solutions, and "band-aid" workplace initiatives rarely create real change—and what leaders, employees, and communities can do instead to build truly fair organizations for human beings who deserve better.

What to listen for:

• The fabulous cobra story, helping set the stage for unintended consequences that can enable or even worsen the original problem

• The best condensed explanation of the history of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion that we've heard

• The contrasting stats about how many people want DEI, but say they don't see any perceived benefits – and why that is problematic.

• So how do we build more humane workplaces? Enter the FAIR framework of outcomes we want to see in the workplace - fairness, access, inclusion, representation - and what it takes to transform the diversity backlash into real change: outcomes, systems, coalitions, and win-win.

• How Lily guards against burnout, personally

About Lily:

LILY ZHENG (they/them) is a no-nonsense strategist, consultant, and author who helps leaders and practitioners build workplaces that work for everyone. They are the creator of the FAIR Framework, an evidence-based approach giving guidance to those driving the next evolution of workplace diversity, equity, and inclusion. Lily's work has been featured in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR, and their bestselling books, DEI Deconstructed, Reconstructing DEI, and Fixing Fairness, lay out the practical skills and knowledge anyone can use to create the healthy workplaces we all deserve. They live with their wife in the San Francisco Bay Area and can frequently be found indoor rock climbing and putting together yet another all-black outfit.

Buy Fixing Fairness here.