Lily Zheng is a sought-after speaker, strategist, and organizational consultant who specializes in hands-on systemic change to turn positive intentions into positive outcomes for workplaces and everyone in them. A dedicated changemaker and advocate, Lily has had their work published in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR. They are the author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When it comes to fairness in the workplace, our society is quick to zero in on what divides us. Yet, there is broad agreement across all demographics on many key principles. In this conversation, Lily and I explore how leaders can influence the system to better work for everyone.

• Many of us assume that fewer people support the value of diversity than actually do. When asked, 82% of people support pro-diversity statements.
• The most popular/traditional approaches to fixing fairness in the workplace tend to be the least effective.
• Our tendency is to focus on the behavior of individuals, when in fact organizational systems have the most significant impact on fairness.
• When considering a fairness initiative or intervention, begin with the practice of understanding and storytelling, just like many change initiatives.
• Resist the temptation to check boxes with “quick fixes” such as simply bringing in a speaker or hosting a one-time event. This rarely helps in any sustainable way and sometimes worsens existing dynamics.
• If you have a seat at the leadership table, make the case for thoughtful design and involvement of stakeholders at all points in the process, just as many effective organizations do on any strategic change initiative.

• Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All by Lily Zheng (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)
• The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678)
• How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

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Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st-century transformation as their General Manager of Design. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times and Fortune Magazine. He is the author of Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all been through mandated change initiatives more times than we can count. But what if change wasn’t a mandate, but an offer – or even an invitation? In this conversation, Phil and I explore how to make change irresistible.

• Change should be regarded as a high-value-add product.
• Don’t mandate change. Offer change.
• Your goal is sustained cultural adoption, not improving immediate competency.
• Start small, but cover all your bases on a reduced scale. Make a great cupcake instead of a mediocre wedding cake.
• People buy brands, not products. Branding change allows you to define the values and message that goes with it.

• Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success by Phil Gilbert (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)
• How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 740)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. He is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards. He writes for The New Yorker and other publications and is the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of us grew up in a world where most of our relationships started in person. That means many of us are beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss how to get better at connecting in a remote-first world.

• When the telephone first became popular, people had to learn how to communicate with it. We’re at a similar inflection point with digital communication.
• We all have three kinds of conversations: (1) What’s this really about? (practical/decision-making), (2) How do we feel? (emotional), and (3) Who are we? (identity).
• Many of us tend to default to practical/decision-making conversations online and miss conversations about emotion and identity.
• Ask questions that invite an emotional or identity response. Instead of, “Where do you live?” consider a shift like, “What do you love about where you live?”
• Notice when people bring elements into a conversation that aren’t related to the topic. These clues, especially online, can point to entry points for emotional connection.
• Supercommunicators pay just a bit more attention to how people communicate than the rest of us. A slight shift can make a big difference.

• Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection by Charles Duhigg (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)
• How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.