Episodios

  • The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work

    The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work
    Dec 2 2025
    We’ve been taught that “nice” is the goal at work — be pleasant, be agreeable, don’t rock the boat. But what if niceness is actually keeping us stuck, silencing truth-tellers, and protecting the status quo? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall sits down with author and communications strategist Amira Barger to unpack her new book The Price of Nice — a fierce, funny, deeply human guide to understanding how performative niceness, forced neutrality, and “civility” are used to silence real people and reinforce harmful systems. They explore why truth-telling gets punished, how identity and politics always enter the workplace, why leaders cling to neutrality, and what “nerve” really looks like in practice. If you’ve ever swallowed your truth to keep the peace — this episode will give you language, tools, and permission to show up differently and to challenge harm without self-abandoning. Key Takeaways “Niceness” often demands self-abandonment in service of others’ comfort. Kindness and niceness are not the same — kindness requires honesty. Neutrality is not neutral; it protects power, not people. Identity, politics, and lived experience always walk into work with us. Civility can be weaponized to silence truth-tellers and maintain the status quo. The “nerve vs. nice” continuum explains how we’re socialized to stay small. Micro-actions of courage matter as much as big acts of resistance. Leaders need both advocacy and inquiry to create real change. Perfectly assertive communication helps challenge harm without blowing things up. DEI work still happens in micro-spheres — influence what you can control. Timestamps 00:00 — Welcome + why Amira’s work resonates 01:19 — Defining “the price of nice” 03:17 — The story that exposed the harm of niceness 06:41 — Nice vs. nerve: the continuum 10:22 — Kids, truth-telling, and naming what adults ignore 12:03 — Why politics and identity cannot be separated from work 15:42 — The myth of neutrality — and who it protects 20:52 — The weaponization of civility and tone policing 25:19 — Advocacy + inquiry: a better leadership model 30:03 — The Four W Model: navigating hard moments with clarity 36:48 — Micro-actions as everyday nerve 40:31 — The “relay” model of shared resistance Top Keywords niceness vs kindness, workplace neutrality, nerve vs nice, psychological safety, performative civility, identity at work, DEI backlash, assertive communication, leadership inquiry tools, speaking up at work
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    46 m
  • What authenticity at work really means

    What authenticity at work really means
    Nov 25 2025
    Work shouldn’t be the worst part of your week — but for too many people, it still is. In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall talks with Madison Butler — author of Let Them See You — about what it really means to show up as yourself at work, even when systems weren’t built for you. Together, they unpack authenticity, burnout, boundaries, and what happens when companies say they value “culture fit” but really mean “sameness.” Madison shares the story that sparked her journey toward radical authenticity — from code-switching and corporate conformity to refusing to straighten her hair for anyone again — and how that moment changed everything. She and Stacey get candid about navigating fear-based leadership, detaching self-worth from productivity, and finding joy when the world (and the workplace) keeps serving chaos. It’s real talk about identity, healing, and humanity at work — the messy, necessary kind that actually makes things better. Key Takeaways: Authenticity isn’t about performance — it’s about liberation. “Culture fit” is just code for exclusion; hire for value add. Fear-based leadership thrives because it protects power, not people. You can’t heal burnout inside the system that caused it. Detaching your worth from work is an act of resistance. Boundaries are a form of self-preservation, not rebellion. Leaders set the tone — your behavior teaches your team what’s safe. Joy at work isn’t frivolous; it’s fuel for survival. Therapy isn’t a luxury — it’s a leadership skill. Creating space for real humans makes better work, period. Timestamps: 00:00 — Why work shouldn’t send you to therapy 02:00 — How Madison learned to show up as herself 06:00 — The moment she stopped code-switching at work 10:00 — The myth of “authenticity” on social media 15:00 — Burnout, dopamine, and chasing the next thing 20:00 — Fear-based leadership and caring less (on purpose) 23:00 — Detaching identity from job titles 28:00 — Culture fit vs. value add: the truth 33:00 — Likability bias and who gets punished for honesty 36:00 — Leading with joy when everything’s on fire Top Keywords: authenticity at work, burnout recovery, fear-based leadership, work identity, culture fit vs value add, psychological safety, trauma-informed leadership, HR and mental health, joy at work, boundaries and burnout
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    51 m
  • The employees are not OK

    The employees are not OK
    Nov 18 2025
    Between layoffs, burnout, political chaos, AI anxiety, and the cost of living crisis, it’s no wonder employees aren’t okay. But if “not okay” has become the new normal, how do we lead, work, and stay human in the middle of it? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by Kat Kibben and Ryan-Mae McAvoy to explore the crises reshaping the modern workplace. Together, they dig into what’s behind the stats — from chronic fear and distraction to the way work has replaced community — and why “resilience” isn’t a cure for systemic dysfunction. The conversation goes deep on leadership, empathy, and accountability: why companies still reward the wrong traits in leaders, what a truly trauma-aware organization looks like, and how HR can create stability when the world won’t stop spinning. They talk about what healthy work could look like even when no one’s okay. Key Takeaways: Most employees are operating from chronic fear and instability — and pretending otherwise makes it worse. “Resilience” has become a buzzword that ignores systemic problems. Leadership starts with self-awareness and accountability, not policy. Work has replaced community — and it’s breaking people. Constant information flow keeps nervous systems on high alert. HR can help by creating clarity, consistency, and small certainties. Access to benefits ≠ real psychological safety; trust is built in action. The U.S. over-relies on employers to fill social safety gaps. Leaders need to slow down, ask more questions, and model boundaries. Optimism and connection are radical leadership tools in uncertain times. 00:00 — Welcome + why “employees are not okay” became a refrain 02:50 — The nonstop chaos economy: layoffs, fear, and instability 07:00 — Brene Brown, burnout, and the limits of empathy 11:40 — The trauma of layoffs and why we can’t grit through it 14:00 — Fear-based leadership and the dopamine trap of bad news 18:30 — Are workplaces actually built for resilience? 23:00 — Work as the new community (and why that’s dangerous) 26:30 — What we can learn from other countries’ systems 33:00 — Modern work as dependence: a new kind of slavery 35:30 — Redefining leadership: connection, courage, and curiosity Top Keywords: employee burnout, workplace mental health, HR leadership, resilience at work, trauma-informed leadership, workplace culture, psychological safety, layoffs and fear, nervous system regulation, future of work
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    54 m
  • The CEOs are not OK

    The CEOs are not OK
    Nov 11 2025
    Something strange is happening in the C-suite — and employees are the ones feeling it. In this fiery and funny episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by Jessica Winder and Kim Rohrer to unpack a record-breaking trend: more CEOs have stepped down in 2025 than any year in recent history. They dig into why leaders are bailing, what’s really going on behind the “personal reasons” PR statements, and how the revolving door at the top is wrecking trust, culture, and stability across organizations. From “glass cliff” appointments to the “CEO gig economy,” the conversation is equal parts HR therapy and truth serum about power, privilege, and burnout at the top. The crew also looks ahead — asking what happens when nobody even wants to be in charge anymore. And yes, they go there: could AI actually replace a CEO? Key Takeaways: CEO departures hit a 20-year high — and “no reason given” often hides real turmoil. Interim CEOs and “fractional” leaders create confusion, not stability. Boards keep firing individuals instead of fixing systemic problems. The “glass cliff” still pushes women — especially Black women — into impossible roles. Employees feel the ripple effect: fear, fatigue, and lost trust. Leadership churn erodes culture faster than layoffs do. The next generation isn’t aspiring to lead — and that’s a warning sign. Burnout isn’t just for employees; executives are breaking too. AI “leaders” aren’t a solution — but the fantasy says a lot about disillusionment. The future of leadership requires re-imagining power, not recycling it. Timestamps: 00:00 — Welcome and introductions: why CEOs are “not okay.” 04:20 — The CEO exodus by the numbers — record turnover in 2025. 07:15 — Interim CEOs, scapegoating, and corporate gaslighting. 10:30 — Boards keep firing the wrong people. 13:00 — The “glass cliff” and why women say “I’m out.” 15:00 — What’s really behind “voluntary departures.” 20:30 — The shrinking pipeline for diverse leadership. 28:00 — Culture collapse: how constant CEO changes wreck teams. 33:00 — Loyalty vs. chaos: what employees should expect now. 36:00 — Can AI be your CEO? (We said it.) Top Keywords: CEO turnover, leadership instability, HR insight, glass cliff, burnout, workplace culture, board dynamics, interim CEO, employee trust, diversity in leadership
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    50 m
  • What in the H-1B is going on?

    What in the H-1B is going on?
    Oct 28 2025
    When politics and policy collide with people’s livelihoods, HR leaders are often the ones left cleaning up the mess. In this episode, Stacey sits down with fractional HR leaders Anessa Fike and Morgan Williams to unpack the chaos surrounding recent presidential proclamations on H-1B visas, the newly proposed “gold card” visa, and what happens when immigration policy turns into a political weapon. They share firsthand stories from the front lines of HR during both the 2016 and 2025 crises—when rushed visa restrictions sent companies into panic mode, disrupted families overnight, and exposed how little most Americans understand about how H-1Bs actually work. From wage suppression myths to talent pipeline realities, this conversation offers the clarity and context that global companies, startup founders, and HR practitioners need right now. Key Takeaways: What the $100K H-1B fee really means for employers. Why this proclamation mirrors the 2016 immigration chaos. The human toll on workers, families, and HR teams. Why H-1B holders aren’t “stealing jobs.” How global talent drives U.S. innovation. The ripple effect on startups, STEM, and tech. What HR leaders must do when layoffs involve visas. The uncomfortable truth about “gold card” visas. How power and privilege shape who gets to stay. Why HR’s role in political turbulence matters more than ever. Timestamps: 00:00 — Welcome + Why this conversation matters 02:40 — Breaking down the new H-1B rules 05:30 — Déjà vu: echoes of 2016 08:00 — Inside HR’s panic during sudden policy shifts 13:30 — The truth about wage suppression myths 18:20 — What H-1Bs reveal about global talent markets 23:40 — Layoffs, life disruption, and HR ethics 28:50 — How the $100K fee blocks smaller orgs 37:00 — Tech, innovation, and talent pipelines at risk 41:00 — “Gold card” visas and the politics of access
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    53 m
  • When Black Women Get Pushed Out of Work

    When Black Women Get Pushed Out of Work
    Oct 21 2025
    Black women are being pushed out of the U.S. workforce at alarming rates—and it’s not by choice. In this powerful episode of Toot or Boot, host Stacey Nordwall sits down with workplace equity expert T. Tara Turk-Haynes and communications leader and career strategist Cassandra Babilya to unpack how federal job cuts, dismantled DEI programs, and systemic neglect have created an economic crisis that reveals much more than the headlines. Together, they explore what this moment says about the state of work, leadership, and allyship—and what HR and business leaders can actually do to respond. Takeaways Black women’s unemployment rate has surged past 7%, the highest of any demographic group. Federal job cuts are erasing a long-standing path to middle-class stability for Black workers. The dismantling of DEI programs has disproportionately removed Black women from leadership roles. “Economic canary in the coal mine”: what happens to Black women first eventually affects everyone. Many former DEI and HR professionals are now turning to entrepreneurship out of necessity, not choice. Fear of “job hugging” and retaliation may be stifling allyship inside organizations. Mutual aid and microgrants are emerging as critical lifelines for displaced workers. Business leaders must proactively assess who’s being most affected by layoffs and hiring freezes. Individual action—referrals, donations, advocacy—still matters when sustained collectively. True allyship means staying present, vocal, and engaged when it’s no longer convenient. Chapters 00:00 – Opening: Black women and federal job cuts set the stage. 05:47 – Cassandra’s “gong” moment: realizing this isn’t a blip. 07:15 – Tara on being “pushed” into entrepreneurship. 10:35 – Why the silence from supposed allies feels like betrayal. 13:55 – The rise of Black women entrepreneurs as a survival strategy. 17:05 – Understanding why Black women are the canary in the coal mine. 21:09 – How layoffs in HR and DEI deepen inequality across the workforce. 29:10 – The erosion of collective bravery and the rise of isolation. 35:50 – Mutual aid and community action in the face of federal cuts. 43:22 – The call to HR: prove you’re human resources, not corporate defense. Resources: https://fortune.com/2025/08/15/black-female-leadership-future-ceos-erased-dei/ https://www.npr.org/2025/04/27/nx-s1-5349442/black-federal-employees-trump-cuts https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2025/05/agencies-majority-women-and-minority-workforces-are-some-hardest-hit-trump-staff-cuts-new-report-finds/405179/ https://19thnews.org/2025/07/black-women-unemployment-jobs-warning-sign/ https://www.msnbc.com/know-your-value/business-culture/300000-black-women-left-labor-force-3-months-s-not-coincidence-rcna219355 https://time.com/7315624/rising-unemployment-black-women-economy/ https://www.epi.org/blog/whats-behind-rising-unemployment-for-black-workers/ https://www.sheenmagazine.com/relief-is-resistance-the-state-of-women-relief-fund/
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    54 m
  • Moderna merges HR and IT, the price of office politics, and is sustainable scaling achievable?

    Moderna merges HR and IT, the price of office politics, and is sustainable scaling achievable?
    Jun 5 2025

    In this episode, we explore three critical workplace strategy topics: how effective leaders can minimize office politics through transparency, accountability, and encouraging diverse viewpoints—strategies that seem obvious yet many workplaces still struggle to implement; Moderna's innovative approach to merging their tech and HR departments under a single "chief people and digital technology officer" role, complete with over 3,000 custom GPTs, representing a thoughtful years-long integration rather than a knee-jerk AI adoption; and the challenges of scaling a business sustainably, where the advice to build systems for 10x capacity sounds great in theory but often conflicts with the reality that HR infrastructure typically lags behind growth, creating a delicate balance between building too little too late versus over-engineering for your current stage.


    Connect

    Katya Laviolette on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katya-laviolette-6907b726/

    Stacey Nordwall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceynordwall/


    Articles

    • How Effective Leaders Minimize Office Politics
    • Why Moderna Merged Its Tech and HR Departments
    • Why Scaling a Business is the Hardest—and Most Important—Stage of Growth
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    29 m
  • The cost of DEI rollbacks, the new employer-employee relationship , and the human cost of content moderation

    The cost of DEI rollbacks, the new employer-employee relationship , and the human cost of content moderation
    May 27 2025

    This episode dives into why some CEOs are paying the price for walking back DEI, how the employer-employee relationship has fundamentally shifted, and the horrifying conditions faced by Meta’s outsourced content moderators. From strategic miscalculations to moral failures, we examine what these stories tell us about leadership, labor, and the values that shape today’s workplaces.

    Connect:

    With Anessa:

    • On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anessafike/
    • On her website: https://www.fikeandco.com/
    • Her book: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-revolution-of-work-fuck-the-patriarchy-and-the-workplace-it-built-anessa-fike/21206822?ean=9781961347540&next=t

    With Stacey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceynordwall/

    Articles:

    • How some corporations miscalculated the impact of abandoning DEI
    • Has the Labor Market changed or have employees?
    • Meta faces Ghana lawsuits over impact of extreme content on moderators
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    33 m